Vonset???

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samson
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Re: Vonset???

Post by samson »

Dear Eric,

We know each other because of chess, really appreciate your test and accurate report, thank you very much. I wish you a happy life. If you have the opportunity to come to China, please contact me. We will also continue to improve products, make more and better products, and let technology truly serve our lives.

Warm regards,
Samson from Vonset

Tibono2 wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:30 pm
Priest321 wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:04 pm Looking forward to seeing the results of the testing.
Keith 🙂
Hi Keith, hi all
here you are with the Khmelnitsky test outcome!

I had to cancel the first run of the test after reaching 85% done: I already had a growing concern with the temporary results that looked way below my expectation (with regards to the high playing strength), and finally got evidences the displayed score is often not self-sufficient to assess a position. It looks to only "scratch the surface". Nevertheless, once few moves are actually played starting from a given position, the score converges towards relevant values, and gives a balanced evaluation of the initial position.
As the Khmelnitsky test leverages not only best move identification, but also questions the side having an edge or maybe winning, I had to find a workaround.
The key point is the blazing fast response time of the L6-v2. I now have played many games, I could only notice a couple of them with L6-v2 at level 22 (max) using one or two seconds for the whole game, according to the time display! Other games did not report a single whole second spent.
Other chess computers running the Khmelnitsky test are granted three minutes thinking time per position - therefore I considered fair enough to have the L6-v2 carry on several moves in a row (using in turn the hint feature then the usual computer move) in order to reveal sort of the principal variation and take note of the displayed scores. Usually 4 to 5 moves are enough to get a stabilized score (best is to reach a "quiescence position"). This process only costs around half a minute operator time, and the computing time used by the L6-v2 remains barely noticeable.

OK, the L6-v2 is not an analysis tool (as already stated about the L6-v1), anyway let's focus on the results now:
It achieved 1954 KT-Elo, which is close to the score achieved by the Fidelity 2265 Designer Mach III (1974).
According to the calibration graph I previously shared (p.4 within this thread), this reveals a potential strength above 2100 "computer Elo".

Here is the graph:
Image
link (if not displayed above)

Comparison to the L6-v1:
Image
link

Comparison to the Designer MIII:
Image
link

Comparison to an average 1954 Elo human player:
Image
link

It is a strong counterattacker, manages the opening fairly well, and rather unusually has good skills for strategy, even better than the average player has. Not a great attacher though, and a bit weak in tactics and sacrifice. The low spot in tactics of course relates to the extremely short thinking time used.

I am still running tournaments in order to evaluate the computer Elo thru real games, so far the L6-v2 appears to deserve the rough estimate over 2300/2350 mark. Maybe even more. New blitz monster?

Tibono
Priest321
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Re: Vonset???

Post by Priest321 »

Hi there,

thanks for the test report, very interesting! Seems strong considering how quick it is!

Any update on the v7 or app?

Regards

Keith.
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Tibono2
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Re: Vonset???

Post by Tibono2 »

Hi,

my first evaluation of the playing level of the L6-v2: the first gauntlet tournament (8 games) resulted in a 2.457 CElo thanks to 68.8% performance against average opponents valued to 2.320 CElo.
I then ran two swiss tournaments, 16 participants each, 64 games over 4 rounds. The first tournament average level was 2.472 CElo; the L6-v2 was rather successful with a performance of 56.3% thus 2.578 facing 2.534 average opponents.
I therefore increased the level with the next tournament, same format, 2.535 average participants. The L6-v2 somewhat struggled to reach 31,3% facing 2.538 average opponents, which is a 2.401 performance.
The resulting CElo for the L6-v2 after 24 games is 2.479 (2.371 FIDE).

Be aware these values leverage the L6-v2 set to its maximum level (=22) whereas computer opponents were set to an average 15 seconds per move (10 minutes per 40 moves). As the level 22 of the L6 is the maximum, there is no way to increase it in order to better face long time control games. As an example, the L6-v2 should achieve close to 2.400 performance facing computer programs set to active chess (average 30sec/move), which is still an impressive evaluation.

The L6-v2 achieves over 500 points more than the v1 using the Khmelnitsky test; and achieves over 900 CElo more than the v1 in computer games - not to forget this is all with instant moves! Awesome!

Cheers,
Tibono
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Murat
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Re: Vonset???

Post by Murat »

Hi Tibono

Am I understanding this correctly?

The Level 22 of L6 is still instant play vs 15 seconds per move for the opponents?

Thank you for the evaluation by the way.

Murat
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Tibono2
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Re: Vonset???

Post by Tibono2 »

Murat wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2023 2:50 pm Am I understanding this correctly?

The Level 22 of L6 is still instant play vs 15 seconds per move for the opponents?
Indeed! And to give a flavor of the opponents, those included, with L6 point of view score in brackets w(in)d(raw)l(oss) : Mephisto Almeria 32 CB-Emu (1w1d), Mephisto Montreux CB-Emu (2w), Bikjump 2.01 (1w1d), Uragano 0.87 (2w), Chess System TAL 2 (1w1l), Little Goliath 1.4 (1d1l), Rebel XP (1d1l), LC0 no GPU using a small net 48x5 (2d). All using 15s/move, yes!
Tibono
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Tibono2
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Re: Vonset???

Post by Tibono2 »

Hi there,
The L6-v2 is now displayed in my webpage.
Kind regards,
Tibono
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Murat
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Re: Vonset???

Post by Murat »

Hi Tibono,

looking at the graph charts in your web page, Millenium The King Performance is a lot superior to everything else.

Is it possible to make the same chart for DGT Centaur?

Thank you

Murat
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Tibono2
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Re: Vonset???

Post by Tibono2 »

Murat wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:41 am Is it possible to make the same chart for DGT Centaur?
Hi Murat, all,
no it is not, as the Khmelnitsky test ranges from 800 to 2500 Elo.
According to my tournament games, The DGT Centaur Expert level is 2800+ Fide Elo as an order of magnitude, that is way outside the test range.
All the best,
Tibono
Stethorn
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:34 am

Re: Vonset???

Post by Stethorn »

Apologies for digging up an old thread . I am new to chess , but wanting to learn. I have been playing on an ipad but find it distracting to my anxiety as tend to stray away and start checking bills, Emails, etc.
I am looking to get a chess computer , so far I have seen the vonset L6 and the millennium chess pro. I think the vonset looks good because of the lights for guidance , I had a cheap chess computer years ago and if you got distracted when computer moved you had to work out what had moved , etc.
Can anyone given any opinion on which is best, I know they are probably advanced , but that is what I want. I have set my budget to £200 but might increase that if convicned .
The main thing I want is something reliable and not going to trigger my anxiety about it being faulty or have a bug, etc. My main concern on the vonset is the built in battery , what happens in years if it wears out or swells , etc.
My concern for both is that there doesn't seem to be any way of updating firmware, etc
At the end of the day I want to buy thr best with it being expensive a d for it not to have any limitations for the future if by the slim chance I can actully beat it 🙂

Really appreciate any help and I apologise if I should have posted else where.

Kind regards

Stephen
samson
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Re: Vonset???

Post by samson »

Stethorn wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:45 am Apologies for digging up an old thread . I am new to chess , but wanting to learn. I have been playing on an ipad but find it distracting to my anxiety as tend to stray away and start checking bills, Emails, etc.
I am looking to get a chess computer , so far I have seen the vonset L6 and the millennium chess pro. I think the vonset looks good because of the lights for guidance , I had a cheap chess computer years ago and if you got distracted when computer moved you had to work out what had moved , etc.
Can anyone given any opinion on which is best, I know they are probably advanced , but that is what I want. I have set my budget to £200 but might increase that if convicned .
The main thing I want is something reliable and not going to trigger my anxiety about it being faulty or have a bug, etc. My main concern on the vonset is the built in battery , what happens in years if it wears out or swells , etc.
My concern for both is that there doesn't seem to be any way of updating firmware, etc
At the end of the day I want to buy thr best with it being expensive a d for it not to have any limitations for the future if by the slim chance I can actully beat it 🙂

Really appreciate any help and I apologise if I should have posted else where.

Kind regards

Stephen
Dear friend,

Thank you for seeing our Vonset L6. I think you can buy our chess computer now. Here I can promise you that if we release a new product, we will give our old customers the lowest price to experience our new products. Our goal is to make more meaningful chess products. Therefore, we also pay great attention to the experience and evaluation of us by old customers, and we pay great attention to customer feelings.

Thanks again. Best wishes!!
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Fernando
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Re: Vonset???

Post by Fernando »

On the ground of what I have read here about your computer, it would be advisable tjat your programmers let the engine to analize positions the time is due, not just to play almost instantly.

Fern
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the mighty grob
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Re: Vonset???

Post by the mighty grob »

Absolutely agree with this, the lack of analysing and longer thinking levels stops this being a must have computer. Come on Vonset wouldn't take much at all :(
the mighty grob
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Re: Vonset???

Post by the mighty grob »

Spoiling the boat for a half pence of tar :D I
As they used to say
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mclane
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Re: Vonset???

Post by mclane »

Why should any buy a dedicated chess computer that moves instantly ????

It’s obviously a stockfish clone.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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Fernando
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Re: Vonset???

Post by Fernando »

It's not a clone: it's Stockfish engine over there. They recognized it.
I do not see any sense in getting a comp that does not leave a chance not even to Carlsen.

Playing old stuff regards
Fern
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