The Computer Thinking On Your Time

[SirDave]

I'm sure this subject has been discussed before, but I wonder whether it has ever been discussed as an important subject when selecting a dedicated board to play. It occurs to me that if the computer has the ability to think on your time then whether that function can be turned off or not has a direct effect on the accuracy of the average/fixed time or ply levels.

I say this because my guess is that unless a player follows the same average/fixed time or ply as the computer, the computer's actual time or ply is going to be greater than stated. For example, if the computer's fixed time level is 30sec, but I take 2 minutes to make my move, the computer will have had much more than 30sec to ponder its move (how much is hard to say since some of that time is spent anticipating my next move).

This occurred to me when I reviewed the manuals of several of my boards. I noticed that the Saitek Chess Challenger manual is almost exactly the same as the Saitek Expert Travel and that, in fact, they have almost the same firmware and hardware specs. But with one critical difference: Chess Challenger always thinks on your time- you can't turn it off while the Expert offers the option to turn it off (and also various book options which is another subject). What this means to me is that, for most Challenger players, the fixed/average time/ply level figures are not going to be accurate and the computer is going to be a more formidable opponent for the below-club-level player. In fact, for the less-experienced player who doesn't understand the importance of this advantage, the level settings are going to likely appear unfair/inaccurate.

Another unit that thinks on your time and you can't turn it off is the Mephisto Champion. At the other extreme is a unit such as the Novag Star Opal where the computer can't think on your time and the average/fixed time/ply levels operate as expected. On the other hand, the Novag Jade I&II and Amber units have dedicated 'Easy keys' that allow you to directly turn off the computer thinking on your time.

Of course, none of this is going to matter much for those players who match whatever level the computer is playing.

My experience is more limited to portables and units such as the Challenger and RS 2150 and 2250XL. I'd be interested to know whether the computer's ability to think on your time and the ability to turn it on/off or not is a factor with various classic boards (wood and otherwise).

[ricard60]

Hi SirDave,

Citrine can also turn on and off this feature to think or not on your time.
Polgar also and masterchess,fidelity designer 2100 have it. I believe there are a lot of dedicated chess computers that have this ability.

[IvenGO]

I play only count-down levels but looks like Kaplan's computers always think for opponent's time - there's no special option to switch it off.

[Larry]

It occurs to me that if the computer has the ability to think on your time then whether that function can be turned off or not has a direct effect on the accuracy of the average/fixed time or ply levels.

Hi Dave, an interesting topic you have raised here. My old favorite
machine, the Fidelity SC9 has an 'easy' mode, which turns off the
permanent brain so the machine can only think in it's own time. In the
manual it says that with permanent brain 'on', the advantage the
computer has shows when you make the move it expected. Only then
does it gain in thinking time....however when you make any other
move the machine may as well have had permanent brain 'off'. I always
wondered why they don't program it so that the first perhaps three
or four most expected moves are already prepared for, not just the most
expected one. This would surely give the comp more advantage, but then
I'm not a programmer's bootlace.
'Easy' mode was never a factor in my decision to buy/not buy a chess
comp, because I hardly ever use it.
As an exercise, I might take two identical machines (both SC9's) and
play a mini match between them, one with easy mode on and one with
easy mode off. I'll get back to you with the results.
all the best,
Larry

[Steve B]

On The subject of "Pondering"....
i play alot of games pitting dedicated computers against each other and i notice that more blunders can be attributed to "ponder hits" then any other reason
this is where the computer waiting for the move plays instantly when it has correctly predicted the opposing computers move
this basically causes the computer to make a rash move not searched very deeply
unless this move is an obvious recapture the PH instant reply more often then not results in the loss of the game or tosses away a win for a draw..it is especially apparent in the endgame where the premature advance of a P can spell life or death

i have often considered running matches with "Pondering OFF" for this reason alone

Permanent No Brainer Regards
Steve

[Larry]

Well I set up two Fidelity SC9 version A comps on 5sec/move. One
had permanent brain on and the other off. Admittedly only four games
were played, a tiny sample, but the one with permanent brain off lost
every game. I even swapped the comps around after the first two games,
with the same outcome.
I gave up and played two games myself against one of them with
permanent brain off. I slaughtered it both games, with ridiculous ease,
and I'm not a strong player. It felt like I was playing a much weaker
machine, eg a Fidelity '8' level on it's default setting.
Larry

[SirDave]

Interesting results Larry. Yours and Steve's experience with pondering raises the question about the 'quality' of the pondering itself. Perhaps it depends on the programmer and some machines do it better than others.