Endings with two knights and king versus king and pawn

Tumbledown · Post by **Tumbledown** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:09 pm

Many years ago I read a book by two men who addressed various interesting and unusual aspects of chess. Sadly I don't remember either of these men's names or the book's title. However, one point they covered was the matter of endings with king and two knights versus king and pawn. They remarked that they had found only seven such cases in the thousands of games examined and that, curiously Grandmaster Lilienthal featured in two of them, finding the winning method on one occasion and failing on the other. They also stated that from the best position for the weaker side and with fully accurate play by both sides, it takes eighty-eight moves to force mate.

Can anyone tell me anything about the book, the authors or whether their observations were correct?

Tumbledown · Post by **Tumbledown** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:55 pm

I'm still in pursuit of this information. Any ideas out there?

mathefff · Post by **mathefff** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:52 pm

No clue, but wasn't it true, that you cannot mate just with two knights? You can set the position, but it is not possible to play it. Or do you consider the weaker side the side with two knights?

Tumbledown · Post by **Tumbledown** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:40 pm

You can mate with king and two knights against king and pawn, but with correct defence, not against a bare king. The procedure against king and pawn is very difficult and laborious. As I understand it, this is why such endings are exempted from the fifty-move rule.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:48 am

Tumbledown wrote:You can mate with king and two knights against king and pawn, but with correct defence, not against a bare king. The procedure against king and pawn is very difficult and laborious. As I understand it, this is why such endings are exempted from the fifty-move rule.

Yes, you can mate with 2 knights against king and pawn. There are no exceptions to the 50 move rule anymore (after 1992 in fact).

There are also several references online and in books such as Secrets of Pawnless endings by Nunn on the procedure. I have also seen this endgame played in master level games in front of my eyes. There are many more than 7 examples of such endgames from master play. I think many endgame books these days will cover this endgame.

You can see examples from Wikipedia and several endgame books on the Troitsky line. Attached are 2 links. The troitsky line theory also discusses the number of moves to mate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_knights_endgame
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chesscol ... id=1012572

Tumbledown · Post by **Tumbledown** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:04 pm

Dear Shiv

Thank you for the contribution. I have had a brief look at the links you mention and will go into the matter further in due course, As for the seven examples I referred to, the book in question was written a long time ago, when there seem to have been only seven cases. I note from one of your links that Lilienthal failed to force a win in both cases.

Best wishes
Tumbledown