Hi Steve,Steve B wrote:and they all have the same bug as evidenced by the test position you asked me to try outspacious_mind wrote:
If you look at game 6 of my Tests, Atlanta, Magellan and Senator played the same moves 100%. So they are all identical.
so I am a bit confused
you are saying they are identical and yet you still feel they deserve a separate listing on Wiki
the 40 elo wiki difference can be due to several factors
the ones your mentioned,pondering during game play,random factor ..etc..etc
my guess is if you took two of the same computer..any computer..
lets say the Saitek Sparc..two identical Sparcs
and you just labeled them computer 1...computer 2
and then ran them against different opponents(as the Atlanta and Magellan were on Wiki) you would get a small difference in rating
this would be true at any Time Control
we both said to wait until your done with all of your games to draw any final conclusions but...
if when done if the match ratio between Magellan and Atlanta is at or near 90% ...
will you still hold the position that they deserve a separate listing on Wiki ?
if your answer is still YES .then I guess we don't need to debate this any longer as it would make no sense to from my perspective
Best Regards
Steve
Let's put it this way. I believe that the programs have the same base starting point. But it does not change the fact that Atlanta at 30 seconds per move is better than Magellan. I can play these tests until I am blue in the face and it still comes out the same.
I know that my Atlanta, Magellan and Senator are no different to any one else's. I have opened them, I have shown it in certain tests that they are.
But in game practice the results show differently and it is Magellan that is continuously the one that plays weaker:
The Info List is based on 30 seconds per move. My influence on that list is about 20 games maximum out of a total of 374 Atlanta games and 524 Magellan games. As far as I am concerned Micha can remove all my 20 games and it makes no difference to the result. Atlanta is better at Active chess.
Here is a Fritz test that I played all those years ago it shows the same. Everything I do I share so anyone can replay it to their hearts content with their computers. It just is what it is.
So we have the following:
1) A 30 second Active List with 900 games that show Atlanta better which is independent of Nick.
2) A thorough Fritz Test I did a few years ago that show the same.
3) Now the new Test games show Atlanta better than Magellan.
Sure there will be situations when all the moves get repeated. There will be situations of the same with RS2250XL and TC2100 for example as well.
But still they deserve to be listed separately because they do have a play difference however hard it is to point exactly where it comes from.
If that difference between Atlanta and Magellan goes away at Tournament Level chess I don't know because I have not tested that but at 30 seconds per move they deserve a separation.
I mean we are talking about a list here, who cares really if a computer has it's own ELO. In fact I wish that were the case on every one of them as this helps the owner of that computer to be actually able to associate his computer on that list and accurately if he wanted to replay the games instead of them all being lumped together in a bowl like spaghetti.
Best regards,