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Fernando wrote:
Since long time ago I lost interest in the strength as such. Any around 2000 elo machine is enough for me. My interest now, if still exist, is for differences of style, differences of presentation, differences of board, differences of that kind. I would have preferred a hundred times more a 1900 machine with a program by other programmer of the past and with a wood board.
But these guys in Millenium will squeeze the teets of Lang and plastic manufactures until the last drop.
Wooden regards
Fern
Yes, I think all of us probably 'wood' like other designs and other programmers, in other words to bring back the golden age of the dedicated chess computer. Unfortunately we have lost that exciting time, unless of course Millenium's efforts revive it. At best we might get a mini-revival, and then only if there is enough interest. There does appear to be a fair level of interest as otherwise Millenium would not be producing the Pro version. What would be good is if other manufacturers take Millenium's lead and work in competition with them. This way we may see more machines with differing programmers and hence, different styles of play etc. We can but hope, but at least we are getting new machines, albeit with the same style of play.
Perhaps if the Pro version had options to change it's style of Lang play that wood' have been a nifty feature, not a new idea of course. My aging Advanced Star Chess has four different styles.
Fernando wrote:
Not a clue about the price? I already paid the highest price ever for the first of them....
At Niggeman you can order for 159,- euro right now, delivery in september.
You find it at https://www.schachversand.de/startneu2.htm (Scroll to date 30.06.2016 19:34:01)
Fernando wrote:
Since long time ago I lost interest in the strength as such. Any around 2000 elo machine is enough for me. My interest now, if still exist, is for differences of style, differences of presentation, differences of board, differences of that kind. I would have preferred a hundred times more a 1900 machine with a program by other programmer of the past and with a wood board.
But these guys in Millenium will squeeze the teets of Lang and plastic manufactures until the last drop.
Wooden regards
Fern
Yes, I think all of us probably 'wood' like other designs and other programmers, in other words to bring back the golden age of the dedicated chess computer. Unfortunately we have lost that exciting time, unless of course Millenium's efforts revive it. At best we might get a mini-revival, and then only if there is enough interest. There does appear to be a fair level of interest as otherwise Millenium would not be producing the Pro version. What would be good is if other manufacturers take Millenium's lead and work in competition with them. This way we may see more machines with differing programmers and hence, different styles of play etc. We can but hope, but at least we are getting new machines, albeit with the same style of play.
Perhaps if the Pro version had options to change it's style of Lang play that wood' have been a nifty feature, not a new idea of course. My aging Advanced Star Chess has four different styles.
I guess Millenium found that there is enough market on the ground of the existence of nuts like us for producing modest baths of one or two machines, no more. I doubt very much they will amplify its ops and/or some other player will come.
Fern
Fernando wrote:I guess Millenium found that there is enough market on the ground of the existence of nuts like us for producing modest baths of one or two machines, no more. I doubt very much they will amplify its ops and/or some other player will come.
Fern
Alas, I think you are right and after the MCG Pro, next year might be the 'Ultimate' version with the same program but with a faster processor again. But being the nuts that we are no doubt will buy into it again.
hyppyp wrote:Agree, but to make a bold statement, if that Ultimate version will be in wood and around 400 euro I will buy it for sure.......
Wood is nice for sure, but I think they will try and appeal to a wider audience by keeping the price low and stick with plastic. The 150 Euros price is cheap and more like an upgrade cost.
I wonder why they don't modularise the MCG? That would be nifty.
purchase one of the new Chess Genius Pro, and i ask several questions, and i get answer(of course) :
fisrt question : is it the same program as the Millennium Chess Genius ?
answer : No it is not the same program but the same chess knowledge. The program had been modified on various stages to incorporate the new level, new openings etc.
second question : do you plan to produced machine with program from other programmer ?
answer : question is difficult, can not be answered easily. First a programmer willing to transfer the software to our hardware needs to be found (and the software needs to be compatible), then the entire operational system has to be new, the testing and debugging start all over, it would be a highly expensive task taking many many months to complete. We decide step by step how to continue depending on the sales success and options available.
So i hope that if the product is a success they can engage such a difficult process ich may be interesting for them...
purchase one of the new Chess Genius Pro, and i ask several questions, and i get answer(of course) :
fisrt question : is it the same program as the Millennium Chess Genius ?
answer : No it is not the same program but the same chess knowledge. The program had been modified on various stages to incorporate the new level, new openings etc.
second question : do you plan to produced machine with program from other programmer ?
answer : question is difficult, can not be answered easily. First a programmer willing to transfer the software to our hardware needs to be found (and the software needs to be compatible), then the entire operational system has to be new, the testing and debugging start all over, it would be a highly expensive task taking many many months to complete. We decide step by step how to continue depending on the sales success and options available.
So i hope that if the product is a success they can engage such a difficult process ich may be interesting for them...
best regards
Nicolas
Hello Nicolas,
Thank you for sharing this feedback. I think it's what I expected, the program had to be modified to incorporate the opening book options and mate in X level and maybe extra hash (not sure) but beyond that it's the same program running in faster hardware. But, we can't expect too much considering that probably most of the original dedicated machine chess programmers are retired. I'm just glad that a company is still producing new machines.
Just completed a ten game match at forty moves in two hours between the MCG and Magellan. The result was a draw! I had thought the Magellan would win, but in this limited match of ten games that was not to be. Anyhow, the difference in ELO between these two is small enough that any match is going to be close. That said, I am still surprised that the Cosmos did so well against the MCG under the same conditions. In this match the Cosmos only lost by one point despite it's much lower ELO rating. It all goes to show that 100's of games are required to get a real evaluation.
In one game the Magellan went all out for an aggressive win, but it was an ill planned attack with insufficient supporting pieces to carry it through. The MCG outplayed the Magellan and won. I think had it been me playing the Magellan probably would have succeeded!
The MCG is certainly a strong player and I suspect the MCG Pro will be impressive.
Yarc wrote:Just completed a ten game match at forty moves in two hours between the MCG and Magellan. The result was a draw! I had thought the Magellan would win, but in this limited match of ten games that was not to be. Anyhow, the difference in ELO between these two is small enough that any match is going to be close. That said, I am still surprised that the Cosmos did so well against the MCG under the same conditions. In this match the Cosmos only lost by one point despite it's much lower ELO rating. It all goes to show that 100's of games are required to get a real evaluation.
That's interesting given that the Cosmos is the equivalent of the Saitek Expert Travel and the Mephisto Chess Challenger.
Yarc wrote:Just completed a ten game match at forty moves in two hours between the MCG and Magellan. The result was a draw! I had thought the Magellan would win, but in this limited match of ten games that was not to be. Anyhow, the difference in ELO between these two is small enough that any match is going to be close. That said, I am still surprised that the Cosmos did so well against the MCG under the same conditions. In this match the Cosmos only lost by one point despite it's much lower ELO rating. It all goes to show that 100's of games are required to get a real evaluation.
That's interesting given that the Cosmos is the equivalent of the Saitek Expert Travel and the Mephisto Chess Challenger.
It may not be quite a surprise, because in some tournaments at 30 secs/move the Chess Challenger tuned at 40 MHz instead of 10 MHz performs quite well.
paulwise3 wrote:
It may not be quite a surprise, because in some tournaments at 30 secs/move the Chess Challenger tuned at 40 MHz instead of 10 MHz performs quite well.
Tuning cheap computers pays off regards
Paul
I've seen figures for a 24Mhz Cosmos and the results are impressive, but never bothered to tune my machines. I wonder what a tuned MCG could achieve? Maybe similar to an MCG Pro?
I also wonder what the difference is, for example, between the chess program in the Cosmos and the Magellan. Hash tables, opening book size, and knowledge. Quite a difference, and wondering if the Magellan is an improved version of the Cosmos program or if the Cosmos is a cut down version of the Magellan. Boosting the Cosmos's speed certainly closes the gap.
