Milenium Genius News???

Fluppio · Post by **Fluppio** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:09 pm

Hi Nick,

the SSDF ratings are 100 ELO above the Wiki ELO, so hopefully the Millenium Genius reaches more than 2000 ELO, but we'll see in autum or winter.

Wishful thinking regards
Peter

Post by **Fernando** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:49 pm

spacious_mind wrote:
Steve B wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:

Ossi Weiner is Millennium Steve.
Right ..I know
just didn't know where the tests were coming from

Regards
Steve
It comes from an official Millennium Website. Therefore has to be fully sanctioned. Always best to have someone else's name as tester, helps you to blame someone when Steve finds out the results are wrong.. lol

Sorry gentlemen, but you are mistaken. There is not even ONE Lang engine that was less than 2000 Elo.
My guess is this genius thing will give us at least a 2100 performance, probably more.

Waiting Ossie check regards
Fern

klute · Post by **klute** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:03 pm

Steve B wrote:
Fernando wrote:Cant wait for the wooden version
I'd be surprised if a standalone Holz version eventuated as it would have to compete with DGT.

If the tabletop Kunststoff model sells well, then what I'd like to see next is a touch screen handheld version with a USB port and ideally also Bluetooth capability that could connect to a DGT e-Board as an option.

That would be a true successor in spirit to the high-end Novag way of doing things, but with the best of modern technologies.

Monsieur Plastique · Post by **Monsieur Plastique** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:07 pm

There is no possible way the new machine will be 2250 ELO. Yes, it will be strong, but not that strong. Even if those results are against the Milano Pro on "full power" mode, that is not only too small a sample for a meaningful result in terms of total games, but more importantly it is only against one opponent. Infact we haven't seen any games against anything other than a Milano Pro so far as I am aware. You need to play against a variety of opponents around the same strength. Once it starts playing other strong machines like a Star Diamond and the strongest Fidelities, etc, the truth will come out. I have plenty of examples in my games databases where a machine that actually has a higher rating has gone down to a weaker one by a massive margin.

I've been playing a lot of games recently against Genius on my phone with the response time adjusted to account for the processor speed such that it would be equivalent to the new Genius at tournament level. Yes, of course it is strong but in overall terms to me it feels roughly 150 points stronger than a Saitek Expert. That translates to almost exactly the rating that Millenium are claiming - a little over a genuine 2000 ELO per the SSDF list. The reality is that we are looking at something bearing a close family resemblance to a Mephisto Portorose - obviously with refinements - and running at a faster speed. Adjust the Portorose rating for the new CPU and you also end up with a rating per the SSDF list in the low to mid 2000 range.

So it will be strong but I think some people are getting too excited whilst others are being too pessimistic. In any case, until I've seen at least 100 x 40 in 2 games played to mate against at least 5 different opponents of similar strength, I am not going to put any credence towards whatever rating is the latest "estimate" other than to merely state it is a true high-Expert strength machine. And it will of course be the strongest mass- market (non-esoteric) dedicated to hit the shelves for a very long time.

klute · Post by **klute** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Fernando wrote:My guess is this genius thing will give us at least a 2100 performance, probably more.

That's also been my feeling since it was first announced, but we will all just have to wait and see.

Post by **Fernando** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:13 pm

Monsieur Plastique wrote:There is no possible way the new machine will be 2250 ELO. Yes, it will be strong, but not that strong. Even if those results are against the Milano Pro on "full power" mode, that is not only too small a sample for a meaningful result in terms of total games, but more importantly it is only against one opponent. Infact we haven't seen any games against anything other than a Milano Pro so far as I am aware. You need to play against a variety of opponents around the same strength. Once it starts playing other strong machines like a Star Diamond and the strongest Fidelities, etc, the truth will come out. I have plenty of examples in my games databases where a machine that actually has a higher rating has gone down to a weaker one by a massive margin.

I've been playing a lot of games recently against Genius on my phone with the response time adjusted to account for the processor speed such that it would be equivalent to the new Genius at tournament level. Yes, of course it is strong but in overall terms to me it feels roughly 150 points stronger than a Saitek Expert. That translates to almost exactly the rating that Millenium are claiming - a little over a genuine 2000 ELO per the SSDF list. The reality is that we are looking at something bearing a close family resemblance to a Mephisto Portorose - obviously with refinements - and running at a faster speed. Adjust the Portorose rating for the new CPU and you also end up with a rating per the SSDF list in the low to mid 2000 range.

So it will be strong but I think some people are getting too excited whilst others are being too pessimistic. In any case, until I've seen at least 100 x 40 in 2 games played to mate against at least 5 different opponents of similar strength, I am not going to put any credence towards whatever rating is the latest "estimate" other than to merely state it is a true high-Expert strength machine. And it will of course be the strongest mass- market (non-esoteric) dedicated to hit the shelves for a very long time.

In any case everybody here will get one or more genuses even if the rattng turn to be 1700 Elo.

Love is blind regards
Fern

Post by **Steve B** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:23 pm

Fernando wrote: In any case everybody here will get one or more genuses even if the rattng turn to be 1700 Elo.

Love is blind regards

That's right
I have Lang engines in Dedicated Chess Computers rated 1500..makes no difference to me really but I would only buy one of these..cant see the need for more
NOW...if they made a wooden version I would easily pick up ...

A dozen Or So Regards
Steve

klute · Post by **klute** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:49 pm

Steve B wrote:I have Lang engines in Dedicated Chess Computers rated 1500

For example, the CXG Chess 2001 - more like 1579 though and quite Kittinger-like in its playing style.

Here it is as Black defeating a Saitek Cosmos at 40/2, fair and square:

[Event "Comp 40/2"]
[Site "Blue Mountains"]
[Date "2004.??.??"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Cosmos"]
[Black "Chess 2001"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B30"]
[PlyCount "142"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bb5 a6 5. Bxc6 dxc6 6. O-O Bg4 7. Re1 e5 8.
h3 Bh5 9. g4 Nxg4 10. hxg4 Bxg4 11. b3 Qf6 12. Kg2 O-O-O 13. d3 Be7 14. Na4 b5
15. Nb2 h5 16. Rh1 h4 17. Be3 h3+ 18. Kh2 Bxf3 19. Bg5 Bxd1 20. Bxf6 Bxf6 21.
Raxd1 Rh5 22. a4 Bg5 23. Kg3 Bf4+ 24. Kf3 h2 25. Ra1 Rd6 26. Kg4 Rdh6 27. Kf3
Kb8 28. axb5 cxb5 29. Ke2 f5 30. exf5 Rxf5 31. Nd1 Kb7 32. Ne3 Rfh5 33. Nd5 Bg5
34. Ne3 Rd6 35. Nf5 Rd7 36. Ng3 Rh6 37. Kf3 Rd8 38. Ra2 Kb6 39. Ke4 Bf4 40. Nf5
Rh7 41. c3 g5 42. Ne3 Rhd7 43. Ng2 Rxd3 44. Nxf4 exf4 45. Rxh2 R8d6 46. Rc2 a5
47. Rh5 b4 48. Rxg5 Rxc3 49. Rxc3 bxc3 50. Rg1 Rd4+ 51. Ke5 Kb5 52. Rc1 Kb4 53.
f3 Kxb3 54. Rb1+ Kc4 55. Rc1 a4 56. Kf5 a3 57. Ke5 a2 58. Ke6 Kb3 59. Ke5 c2
60. Kf5 Kb2 61. Rh1 a1=Q 62. Rxa1 Kxa1 63. Ke6 c1=Q 64. Kf5 Qe3 65. Kg6 c4 66.
Kf6 c3 67. Kg6 c2 68. Kf6 c1=Q 69. Kf5 Rd5+ 70. Kg6 Qc7 71. Kh6 Qeb6# 0-1

Post by **Steve B** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:57 pm

klute wrote:
Steve B wrote:I have Lang engines in Dedicated Chess Computers rated 1500
For example, the CXG Chess 2001 - more like 1579 though and quite Kittinger-like in its playing style.

Also the TSB IV La Regence and the CXG 3000
both tip the scales in the mid 1500's

whats really nice about these two though is that they are made out of ...

Wood...Glorious Wood Regards
Steve

Monsieur Plastique · Post by **Monsieur Plastique** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:43 pm

What I will say about the strong Lang engines is that they are seamless in their play right from the very first move to the very last. You are not aware, for example, of any particularly irritating weaknesses as you may find, for example, with a Morsch dedicated machine once it reaches the endgame. And you don't find them making dubious positional decisions for the most part. In my experience the Lang programs tend to play like a strong human who adopts a solid and technically polished playing style - quite unlike a strong Morsch or Kittinger which can be very aggressive and loves to complicate things. The Lang machines / engines probably make the best opponents for strong tournament practice for this very reason, though the downside is that the games can appear to be a little dowdy and drawish at times.

Post by **Fernando** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:16 pm

I have been told that if all goes OK with this plastic, cheap batch, a second, De luxe edition, will be available, made in wood, but only 25 of them will be offered. It would cost around 1500 EU.

Dreaming regards
Fern

Post by **Steve B** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:19 pm

Fernando wrote:I have been told that if all goes OK with this plastic, cheap batch, a second, De luxe edition, will be available, made in wood, but only 25 of them will be offered. It would cost around 1500 EU.

Dreaming regards
Fern

I Hereby place an advance order of

1/2 A Dozen Regards
Steve

Post by **Fernando** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:23 pm

Steve B wrote:
Fernando wrote:I have been told that if all goes OK with this plastic, cheap batch, a second, De luxe edition, will be available, made in wood, but only 25 of them will be offered. It would cost around 1500 EU.

Dreaming regards
Fern
I Hereby place an advance order of

1/2 A Dozen Regards
Steve

Half a dozen?
You should get the full batch.

We are at least two dozen here regards
Fern

Post by **Steve B** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:25 pm

Fernando wrote:
Steve B wrote:
Fernando wrote:I have been told that if all goes OK with this plastic, cheap batch, a second, De luxe edition, will be available, made in wood, but only 25 of them will be offered. It would cost around 1500 EU.

Dreaming regards
Fern
I Hereby place an advance order of

1/2 A Dozen Regards
Steve
Half a dozen?
You should get the full batch.

We are at least two dozen here regards
Fern

I say 6 for a reason
the profit I will make in a years time by selling 3 on Ebay
will pay for the 3 I keep

Donald Trump Sends His Regards
Steve

Post by **Fernando** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:31 pm

Steve B wrote:
Fernando wrote:
Steve B wrote:
Fernando wrote:I have been told that if all goes OK with this plastic, cheap batch, a second, De luxe edition, will be available, made in wood, but only 25 of them will be offered. It would cost around 1500 EU.

Dreaming regards
Fern
I Hereby place an advance order of

1/2 A Dozen Regards
Steve
Half a dozen?
You should get the full batch.

We are at least two dozen here regards
Fern
I say 6 for a reason
the profit I will make in a years time by selling 3 on Ebay
will pay for the 3 I keep

Donald Trump Sends His Regards
Steve

You are in excess optimistic. In some years from now on you will be under the earth and your collection dispersed all around the galaxy.
Same with all of us here.

Third age regards
Fern