Online lessons using HCE Pro

[mrudolf]

Is anybody giving chess lessons using HCE Pro? I am looking for some ways to make it easier and I would love to hear some feedback from people who do it.

We will bring back Hide next moves feature in 1.2, but I believe we can do better. One idea I have is to add an option to clone the board of current tab in separate window. This way you can share the board with your students and you will still be able to read all your notes not fearing they will see it too.

Any thoughts on this or other suggestions?

[dixondeuxyeux]

I think the idea has merit and would be extremely useful. I know all the guys at Washington Square Park and Union Square NYC. Sometimes at night they have sparring sessions among themselves with a moderator going through a classic game. Everyone throws in a few dollars and has the guess the following moves after the opening. Each person guesses and the moderator writes down the answers. At the end of the game the highest points take the money minus a little beer for the moderator. For those of you with students online with Zoom, Google Meets, this could be a great way of avoiding cheating or revealing the answers. Since we don't have the option to move tabs, this great idea from Michal is a clean solution.

An avid amateur.

[ChessPoet]

The Clone Chess Board sounds like a great idea! it could also have the ability to get a title from us. How about a students' notation pad which would record/show the moves that took place, or notes we want them to see?

[mrudolf]

The Clone Chess Board sounds like a great idea! it could also have the ability to get a title from us. How about a students' notation pad which would record/show the moves that took place, or notes we want them to see?

But how you will know what to show and what not?

[EloDeficit]

Would you consider an analysis board? The board would copy position from the currently displayed game, and would have functions to revert to the game (effectively discarding the move), or enter the played moves as a variation into the game.

[mrudolf]

Would you consider an analysis board? The board would copy position from the currently displayed game, and would have functions to revert to the game (effectively discarding the move), or enter the played moves as a variation into the game.

Why not do it on the main window? The extra board will show current position.

[EloDeficit]

Why not do it on the main window? The extra board will show current position.

1. When testing, the main window adds variations, which is often premature. Having to manually remove unwanted variations is a chore.
2. While testing, do you really want to add every variation tried? Too often, it creates a mess.
3. Finally, there is the save confirmation dialog.

Honestly, the analysis board and similar functions are reasons why many people on Windows (and probably the vast majority of those who have done side-by-side comparisons) prefer Chessbase and Aquarium GUIs for analysis over HCE.

[mrudolf]

1. When testing, the main window adds variations, which is often premature. Having to manually remove unwanted variations is a chore.
2. While testing, do you really want to add every variation tried? Too often, it creates a mess.
3. Finally, there is the save confirmation dialog.

1. What is the alternative?
2. How would you choose which line to save and which not?
3. Not in WorkBase, but again, what is the alternative?

Honestly, the analysis board and similar functions are reasons why many people on Windows (and probably the vast majority of those who have done side-by-side comparisons) prefer Chessbase and Aquarium GUIs for analysis over HCE.

Can you explain? I've never seen anybody using Analysis board.

[thinkerteacher]

I use lichess study for streaming and coaching sessions.

However I would be more than happy if I could use Hiarcs (for both streaming and coaching purposes) with exactly the same options (or very similar ones) as lichess provides (if Hiarcs had such options).

The biggest issue for me is lichess does not support Chessbase files and it was the main reason I decided to buy Hiarcs (I have used ChessPad and ScidvsPC free programs for at least 10-12 years and I would continue doing that if not Chessbase files support by Hiarcs).

Therefore ANY options to support online coaching and streaming would be fantastic. At the moment IF I had the basic lichess (analysis) features with the options to analyse the games and positions (especially Chessbase files I mentioned) in a separate window - it would be awesome.

MrRudolf - If you need more info about the needs of the chess streamers just let me know. I know one guy who is streaming at Twitch using your Hiarcs program and I can ask him to share his needs and concepts either in a PM or sending him to this thread.

[mrudolf]

Therefore ANY options to support online coaching and streaming would be fantastic. At the moment IF I had the basic lichess (analysis) features with the options to analyse the games and positions (especially Chessbase files I mentioned) in a separate window - it would be awesome.

What do you mean by "the options to analyse the games"? Obviously you can analyse games in HCE, but what features would you need for coaching?

MrRudolf - If you need more info about the needs of the chess streamers just let me know. I know one guy who is streaming at Twitch using your Hiarcs program and I can ask him to share his needs and concepts either in a PM or sending him to this thread.

Sure, the feedback is welcome. I think it is better to discuss here, so that others can comment.

[thinkerteacher]

I mean at the moment drawing the same type of arrows as at lichess and highlightning the squares with circles. In lichess I can do it effortlessly and intuitively and at Hiarcs either I cannot turn off the squares colour either arrows are barely wisible or I cannot find/draw more colours, etc.

What are the other features I would like to have?

Simple and fast copying and creating positions from the main diagram or chapters and easy way to manipulate the chapters. Maybe everything is already implemented in Hiarcs and one can do the same as in lichess, but I need some videos to see how it is done.

For example: recently I opened a database at Hiarcs and wanted to copy 10 games to lichess study. I selected 10 games (it would be great to have an option of small dialog window "select games from X to Y" to make it faster than manually selecting each of the games - when I want to select 10 games it is not a big issue, but what IF I wanted to copy the games/chapters from 26 to 126?)... and after "copy 10 games to the clipboard" I pasted that into the notepad and... nothing happened.

Right now what I immediately woud like to have is the option to make the same options what I can have at lichess (when analyzing the games and create the positions). Why? Simply because lichess cannot handle these (and it is not going to change at lichess I guess). Hiarcs can do that therefore it would be a perfect solution to have such options!

To make it short - I want to have identical lichess analysis options available at Hiarcs (I hope lichess creators will not object)

[mrudolf]

I mean at the moment drawing the same type of arrows as at lichess and highlightning the squares with circles. In lichess I can do it effortlessly and intuitively and at Hiarcs either I cannot turn off the squares colour either arrows are barely wisible or I cannot find/draw more colours, etc.

What is difference between HCE Pro and Lichess?

Simple and fast copying and creating positions from the main diagram or chapters and easy way to manipulate the chapters. Maybe everything is already implemented in Hiarcs and one can do the same as in lichess, but I need some videos to see how it is done.

Not sure what do you mean by creating positions from the main diagram. Chapters are games in HCE.

For example: recently I opened a database at Hiarcs and wanted to copy 10 games to lichess study. I selected 10 games (it would be great to have an option of small dialog window "select games from X to Y" to make it faster than manually selecting each of the games - when I want to select 10 games it is not a big issue, but what IF I wanted to copy the games/chapters from 26 to 126?)...

Check game 26. Shift+check game 126. All between will be selected.

and after "copy 10 games to the clipboard" I pasted that into the notepad and... nothing happened.

Alas, you cannot copy to clipboard on demand and we don't want to copy thousand of games. In 1.1 only a single game was copied as text. In 1.2 the limit is 100, so fewer than 100 games will be copied to clipboard.

Right now what I immediately woud like to have is the option to make the same options what I can have at lichess (when analyzing the games and create the positions). [...] I want to have identical lichess analysis options available at Hiarcs (I hope lichess creators will not object)

But that's what I was asking and what I still do not understand. I find Lichess analysis quite awkward (handling variations, annotating etc.) to use, as expected from browser app with limited keyboard handling.

I understand there are some Lichess convenient features which are not present in HCE Pro, but again what are they?.

[EloDeficit]

1. When testing, the main window adds variations, which is often premature. Having to manually remove unwanted variations is a chore.
2. While testing, do you really want to add every variation tried? Too often, it creates a mess.
3. Finally, there is the save confirmation dialog.

1. What is the alternative?
2. How would you choose which line to save and which not?
3. Not in WorkBase, but again, what is the alternative?

Honestly, the analysis board and similar functions are reasons why many people on Windows (and probably the vast majority of those who have done side-by-side comparisons) prefer Chessbase and Aquarium GUIs for analysis over HCE.

Can you explain? I've never seen anybody using Analysis board.

With the analysis board, you would experiment, and ultimately pick one variation for adding to the game in the main window. The analysis board would have a function to insert the variation line should the user choose to do so. This would be cleaner than having umpteen variations and sub-variations.

With Aquarium, you use the Sandbox to test variations and can carry them over when you want to accept them, but the process and GUI are complicated.
Fritz et al. allow you to test variations in the second board and synchronize back or discard.

[mrudolf]

With the analysis board, you would experiment, and ultimately pick one variation for adding to the game in the main window. The analysis board would have a function to insert the variation line should the user choose to do so. This would be cleaner than having umpteen variations and sub-variations.

With Aquarium, you use the Sandbox to test variations and can carry them over when you want to accept them, but the process and GUI are complicated.
Fritz et al. allow you to test variations in the second board and synchronize back or discard.

I don't see how this is simpler if I have to painfully accept/reject each line.
How is that simpler than just adding lines and using undo/remove line(s)? if I play with moves I am not sure I would add, I often use Cmd/Ctrl to replace the previous line.

I remember that Scid database had "Try" mode when you could add moves which won't be saved but the big drawback was that there was no way to save some of the lines if you assumed they are useful after all.

[EloDeficit]

I don't see how this is simpler if I have to painfully accept/reject each line.
How is that simpler than just adding lines and using undo/remove line(s)? if I play with moves I am not sure I would add, I often use Cmd/Ctrl to replace the previous line.

I remember that Scid database had "Try" mode when you could add moves which won't be saved but the big drawback was that there was no way to save some of the lines if you assumed they are useful after all.

I guess it is a matter of how you work and annotate. With HIARCS, I always end up creating a complex variation tree when I just need one variation out of that tree. Now there is a good chance of deleting the variation I wanted out of that complex tree. Anyway, this is what I would wish for and a reason why I use the Analysis Board on ChessBase GUI's and the Sandbox in Aquarium. I don't know if you have tried the ChessBase analysis board to experience how useful it can be. If not, I strongly recommend that you try it.