Feature Request for 1.3: Display colored analysis arrows

[Steppenwolf]

I want to remember to another nice tool and would be happy if it would be implemented in the 1.3 update,
see here please the post:

https://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php ... lf#p111116

[Alexander]

I have to agree. It's the most obvious missing feature.

I've been really impressed with Hiarcs and have found it's got some fantastic features - in particular like massive database management, big opening trees, install many different engines and can link with Millenium e-boards - meaning you can play any engine you want too and analyse with multiple engines too.

Where Hiarcs software is missing out is with the analysis - and the lack of a best move arrow. Chess.com and lichess both have this, other installable chess apps also have best move arrows - like Banksiagui, ChessSquid, etc and even the free installable Stockfish (15) mac app - all of them display 1 plus arrows. In fact Banksia will also show different engine best moves arrows if you want - it's interesting seeing where Stockfish and Hiarcs 15 agree or disagree when looking through games. Saying that the analysis feature in Hiarcs has been greatly improved with the evaluation bar in the latest update but still this is where Hiarcs is missing out.

Having moved to Hiarcs recently I find I'm using Hiarcs for everything except when it comes to the analysis for this exact reason. Sometime I import a game into one of the other apps just so I can see the best move arrow, or I end up drawing an arrow on the board myself if using Hiarcs (but really I think Hiarcs should do this - instead of me).

Other nice features associated with the analysis are:
1. Option to show multiple lines of the engine.
2. Different arrows resize to show strength of move (like in lichess - if you have 3 lines being show, but one line is much stronger than the others, then one arrow is much bigger than the other two).
3. Option to simultaneously show lines from different engines.
4. Move icon pop-up becomes visible on the board if a blunder/mistake/inaccuracy/great move is made - for instance in other apps a really nice feature is a small red ?? icon or orange ? pop-up appears on the piece after it's been moved. Or perhaps a different colour to the chess board square that the piece lands on.
5. Accuracy (%) metric - although personally I'm happy with centipawns I know lots of people who love the accuracy % that other apps use - i.e. the % of moves which deviate from engine best move.

This really would be fantastic if Hiarcs had these visible analysis features.

[Frank Rahde]

Other nice features associated with the analysis are:
1. Option to show multiple lines of the engine.
...
3. Option to simultaneously show lines from different engines.
...

This really would be fantastic if Hiarcs had these visible analysis features.

Did you mean following with 1. and 3., which is already implemented?
https://app.screencast.com/gXAbCsZtgrooc (click to display my image)
Here you see 2 different engines with 2 lines each ...

[Alexander]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for pointing that out. Actually no I was talking about physically showing the move arrows for the different engines on the board. Hopefully the pictures clarify.

1. Here is an example from Lichess showing 3 engine lines in the Stockfish evaluation - the orange line being the strongest over the other 2 next best suggestions (so note that it is a bigger and wider line). If there is an 'only move' then only 1 arrow is displayed even if >1 line is being evaluated.

3. See here is an example from Banksia with the green arrow showing Stockfish's best move and the Purple arrow showing Hiarcs 15.2 best move. You can add other engines on too of course.

I would also add to the list above:
6. Add an evaluation bar - like on the right side of one of the images attached. These are useful when flicking through a game and spotting a big swing in the engine evaluation.

[mrudolf]

I agree that the arrow for the best move is useful. As for other options, I will have to experiment: the goal is to include important information without creating too much noise.

I kind of like ?! being displayed, but I wonder if this will not be annoying when browsing a game quickly.

As for evaluation bar, the problem is that it is only available if you have analysis running.

[DimEyeChessGuy]

As for evaluation bar, the problem is that it is only available if you have analysis running.

I don't think that is a problem... I think that is the point

[Alexander]

I kind of like ?! being displayed, but I wonder if this will not be annoying when browsing a game quickly.

It's really useful for being able to browse the game quickly. The icons are not especially intrusive - see this example with a clear blunder label on the move.

Also for your consideration:
7. When blunder is made also show opponents move they should have made with arrow. This is also shown in the example attached - with the move they should have made indicated with the light transparent green arrow, and the current best move for the player to move in orange.

These features could easily be enabled as disabled with buttons/sliders/checkboxes in places - maybe with an 'Analysis menu'.

Will leave it with you to decide of course, thanks for considering them.

Cheers,
Alex.

[mrudolf]

One problem is not all of the information is always available.

1. Best move is only available if there is an analysis running.
2. Same for evaluation bar (like the one used by Chess24)
3. Refutation of the played move is not available even with engine running. In fact, we don't even know if the move was bad: if you have 3 lines displayed (with evaluations 0.3, 0.2 and 0.1), we don't know if the move played is really bad or if it is evaluated as 0.08.

Also, what about ?! and ? symbols? How should they work? Should they just displayed the symbols present in the game annotation (possibly coming from game annotation by HCE)? Then, they will only be displayed if the game was analysed.

[Alexander]

1. Best move is only available if there is an analysis running. - Agree. And to turn off best move is also important feature - so need to deselect Best Move Arrow on/off or maybe or close the engine analysis. It's useful to turn on and off the engine arrows.
2. Same for evaluation bar (like the one used by Chess24) Agree
3. Refutation of the played move is not available even with engine running. In fact, we don't even know if the move was bad: if you have 3 lines displayed (with evaluations 0.3, 0.2 and 0.1), we don't know if the move played is really bad or if it is evaluated as 0.08. I think this can only be done aftern Game-Analyse Game is run. Then if ?! ? or ?? is identified in the game annotation by HCE then the previous best move is displayed instead - this seems to be how it works on other programs.

Also, what about ?! and ? symbols? How should they work? Should they just displayed the symbols present in the game annotation (possibly coming from game annotation by HCE)? Then, they will only be displayed if the game was analysed. This is how it works in other programs - they only are displayed if the game is completely analysed (like Game-Analyse Game in HCE)

[bcalmac]

One problem is not all of the information is always available.

1. Best move is only available if there is an analysis running.
2. Same for evaluation bar (like the one used by Chess24)
3. Refutation of the played move is not available even with engine running. In fact, we don't even know if the move was bad: if you have 3 lines displayed (with evaluations 0.3, 0.2 and 0.1), we don't know if the move played is really bad or if it is evaluated as 0.08.

Also, what about ?! and ? symbols? How should they work? Should they just displayed the symbols present in the game annotation (possibly coming from game annotation by HCE)? Then, they will only be displayed if the game was analysed.

This is a sorely missing feature. Every other packages or online chess software displays arrows and other overlays such as move quality. From the ones I've seen, I would consider lichess as the golden standard. If there's some design questions, duplicating the lichess functionality would be awesome.

[mrudolf]

This is a sorely missing feature. Every other packages or online chess software displays arrows and other overlays such as move quality. From the ones I've seen, I would consider lichess as the golden standard. If there's some design questions, duplicating the lichess functionality would be awesome.

We will work on that for 1.4.

[bcalmac]

Million thanks just for considering the feature! It would make a big difference. Along the same lines, are you also thinking about an evaluation bar?

[mrudolf]

Million thanks just for considering the feature! It would make a big difference. Along the same lines, are you also thinking about an evaluation bar?

If there is demand, probably we can make it an option.

[dixondeuxyeux]

Yes, I do believe there is a demand for these visual analysis prompts. They draw our eyes to missed opportunities that aid in our chess understanding and learning. The best option would be to have it but also the option to turn it off when it becomes too much. You have expressed in the past how you like the clean interface of Hiarcs and I agree. But by analogy I wouldn't want to buy a small dictionary that refuses to offer more detailed information because it might increase the page count. And we wouldn't want to buy stock trading software that refused to update the stock value every minute because it would require more work. The time lost between updates could cost users significant money.

Hiarcs is a great playing software and database. And when it comes to analysis and learning to improve the game we love, more is more. Build it please and allow the users the option to turn it on or off as a warning of the increased computing energy and time needed. Remember John F. Kennedy's quote when talking about space exploration. 'We don't do it because it is easy. We do it because it is hard.' Thanks, M