8th International CSVN Tournament (ICT) 30-31 May/1 June

[Harvey Williamson]

Round 5 we are Black v Sjeng.

[Wardy]

Round 5 we are Black v Sjeng.

Cool! I've always liked Sjeng, hope this is as exciting as the last game

[Harvey Williamson]

Here are the prizes. 1st is a bottle of English Salad cream the 2nd a bottle of Dutch Mayo.

[Steve B]

It's amusing how some people on here were rating Leiden as so good and "prestigious" when only two strong computers/engines are present, and when these are very vastly ahead of the rest of the field.

spin doctoring again Turbo?
you missed your calling in life
you should be working for one of the US Presidential Candidates
i imagine Jeroen will love to read your characterization of Leiden as a minor almost unimportant event

i suppose Thüringen will also not meet your criteria for a prestigious event?
Hiarcs took CLEAR first and every top engine was represented
assuming for a minute that there is a tie for first..
i wonder how it must feel to be a devotee of an engine that is rated the highest when it comes to the rating groups but when it comes to live competition it no longer finshes in sole first place?(and hasn't for some time now)
personally i think its far more important and interesting to know which engine is stronger in live tournaments and events .. playing mano y mano .. in front of live spectators and arbiters ..then which one comes out ahead by 63 elo after 10,000 games played in someones basement

but thats just me i guess

Hiarcs for its THIRD Consecutive First Place Regards
Steve

[turbojuice1122]

It's amusing how some people on here were rating Leiden as so good and "prestigious" when only two strong computers/engines are present, and when these are very vastly ahead of the rest of the field.

spin doctoring again Turbo?
you missed your calling in life
you should be working for one of the US Presidential Candidates
i imagine Jeroen will love to read your characterization of Leiden as a minor almost unimportant event

i suppose Thüringen will also not meet your criteria for a prestigious event?
Hiarcs took CLEAR first and every top engine was represented
assuming for a minute that there is a tie for first..
i wonder how it must feel to be a devotee of an engine that is rated the highest when it comes to the rating groups but when it comes to live competition it no longer finshes in sole first place?(and hasn't for some time now)
personally i think its far more important and interesting to know which engine is stronger in live tournaments and events .. playing mano y mano .. in front of live spectators and arbiters ..then which one comes out ahead by 63 elo after 10,000 games played in someones basement

but thats just me i guess

Hiarcs for its THIRD Consecutive First Place Regards
Steve

I think that if we had the competition of Thüringen with the preparation and seriousness that the top operators are giving with Leiden, then we would have a very good chess event. In the current case, yes, we have Jeroen and his book going with Rybka, and we have Hiarcs as usual, but there is nothing other than Rybka and Hiarcs. I don't see this as "spin"--I see it as reality. The name "Leiden" is certainly prestigious, but nobody other than Rybka and Hiarcs took it seriously this year. Now that they have played and drawn their only game, I don't see the event as interesting anymore.

[turbojuice1122]

[Event "Blitz:80'"]
[Site "London"]
[Date "2008.05.30"]
[Round "4"]
[White "HIARCS 12.116 MP"]
[Black "Williamson, Harvey"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[PlyCount "88"]
[TimeControl "4800"]

{2048MB, murder.ctg} 1. d4 {B/0 0} d5 {13} 2. c4 {B/0 0} c6 {9} 3. Nc3 {B/0 0}
Nf6 {11} 4. Nf3 {B/0 0} e6 {9} 5. Bg5 {B/0 0} h6 {8} 6. Bh4 {B/0 0} dxc4 {9} 7.
e4 {B/0 0} g5 {10} 8. Bg3 {B/0 0} b5 {9} 9. Be2 {B/0 0} Bb7 {9} 10. Ne5 {B/0 0}
Nbd7 {10} 11. Qc2 {B/0 0} Bg7 {10} 12. h4 {B/0 0} Qe7 {341} 13. Nxd7 {
-0.12/16 127} Nxd7 {205} 14. e5 {-0.06/18 0} O-O-O {119} 15. O-O-O {
-0.12/18 106} Kb8 {115} 16. Kb1 {-0.17/18 77} Ka8 {(a6) 125} 17. hxg5 {
0.00/18 122} hxg5 {20} 18. Rxh8 {-0.01/19 108} Rxh8 {613} 19. Ne4 {-0.02/20 0}
Bf8 {(c5) 607} 20. Qd2 {-0.13/18 118} Rg8 {290} 21. Qa5 {0.00/20 0} Bg7 {
(Nb6) 115} 22. b3 {0.19/18 160} cxb3 {120} 23. axb3 {0.18/19 0} f5 {(Nb6) 17}
24. exf6 {0.12/17 154} Nxf6 {(Bxf6) 224} 25. Bd6 {0.00/18 101} Qd8 {(Qe8) 45}
26. Bc7 {0.00/19 93} Qd5 {205} 27. Nc5 {0.25/19 0} Bf8 {59} 28. Bb6 {0.12/18 53
} a6 {230} 29. Bf3 {0.00/19 0} Qf5+ {34} 30. Kb2 {0.11/19 81} Bxc5 {154} 31.
Bxc6 {0.10/19 0} Qxf2+ {23} 32. Ka1 {0.00/19 44} Kb8 {160} 33. dxc5 {0.07/18 0}
Nd5 {24} 34. Bc7+ {0.10/18 88} Kc8 {87} 35. Bxd5 {0.09/18 0} Bxd5 {141} 36. Bd6
{0.10/18 0} Qf7 {31} 37. Rc1 {0.10/18 164} Rd8 {39} 38. Kb2 {0.07/17 105} Qg7+
{26} 39. Ka3 {0.00/19 93} Qb7 {74} 40. Rf1 {0.00/18 116} Bxg2 {28} 41. Rg1 {
0.00/19 48} Rd7 {34} 42. Qd2 {0.00/19 0} b4+ {(Bd5) 27} 43. Qxb4 {0.07/20 92}
Qxb4+ {28} 44. Kxb4 {0.00/22 0} Rb7+ {18} 1/2-1/2

Fortunately, Rybka had the correct evaluations the whole time

[turbojuice1122]

This whole thing also begs even more for what I've been saying for quite sometime: you and Lukas should get together on Playchess and play a 10-game 90'+30" match.

[Lukas]

I have to contradict in one single point: Deep Sjeng is very good, too.

Regards,
Lukas

[Harvey Williamson]

I have to contradict in one single point: Deep Sjeng is very good, too.

Regards,
Lukas

Yes it is very good and it just won against us. It was an eventful round Diep nearly got a draw with rybka. the highlight was Andre van ark from the Hiarcs team playing by himself getting a blitz draw against Rybka!!! It looks like now a battle for 2nd with the new and very good Sjeng.

[Event "Blitz:80'"]
[Site "Leiden"]
[Date "2008.05.31"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Deep Sjeng, Harvey"]
[Black "HIARCS 12.116 MP"]
[Result "1-0"]
[PlyCount "101"]
[TimeControl "4800"]

{2048MB, ZAPPA.ctg} 1. d4 {0} e6 {B/0 0} 2. c4 {15} f5 {B/0 0} 3. g3 {10} Nf6 {
B/0 0} 4. Bg2 {10} d5 {B/0 0} 5. Nh3 {10} Be7 {-0.01/1 0} 6. Nc3 {220} O-O {
0.00/19 195} 7. cxd5 {112} exd5 {0.00/20 0} 8. O-O {144} c6 {0.00/20 0} 9. Nf4
{(Qb3) 234} Na6 {-0.01/1 0} 10. Nd3 {135} Nc7 {-0.09/19 150} 11. Ne5 {(Bf4) 8}
Ng4 {-0.15/19 259} 12. f4 {(Bf4) 121} Qe8 {-0.23/18 163} 13. Bd2 {(e3) 115} Qh5
{-0.12/18 234} 14. h3 {134} Nxe5 {-0.13/19 0} 15. fxe5 {160} b6 {-0.04/18 0}
16. Rf2 {(Rc1) 128} Qg6 {-0.11/18 221} 17. Kh2 {(Qc2) 79} Qe6 {-0.09/17 159}
18. Rc1 {(Be3) 111} c5 {-0.07/17 148} 19. e3 {11} Bb7 {-0.09/17 78} 20. Ne2 {
(Qh5) 7} a5 {0.00/18 123} 21. Nf4 {79} Qd7 {0.00/18 0} 22. Qb3 {139} Qc6 {
0.23/18 0} 23. a4 {(Qc2) 0} Kh8 {0.24/17 200} 24. Bc3 {92} c4 {0.28/17 0} 25.
Qc2 {134} Ba6 {0.29/18 0} 26. Bd2 {75} Rac8 {0.44/17 0} 27. b3 {0} Ba3 {
0.55/18 145} 28. Rb1 {8} g6 {0.56/18 96} 29. h4 {(bxc4) 70} Be7 {0.71/17 152}
30. Qb2 {(Bf3) 8} Rb8 {0.76/18 81} 31. Rc1 {(Rff1) 9} Rfc8 {1.00/17 122} 32.
Bf1 {(Qa1) 7} b5 {0.57/17 87} 33. axb5 {10} Bxb5 {1.46/19 393} 34. bxc4 {
(Qa1) 99} Bxc4 {1.45/18 56} 35. Qa2 {(Qa1) 8} Nb5 {1.74/17 127} 36. Bxc4 {27}
dxc4 {1.75/17 0} 37. d5 {74} Qc5 {1.85/17 0} 38. d6 {74} Bd8 {2.11/17 131} 39.
d7 {83} Rc6 {2.18/18 0} 40. e6 {103} c3 {2.86/17 0} 41. Nd5 {116} Rxe6 {
3.81/18 193} 42. Nxc3 {8} Qe7 {4.80/18 262} 43. Nxb5 {8} Qxd7 {4.80/17 30} 44.
Bc3+ {35} Bf6 {5.07/19 0} 45. Nc7 {50} Re5 {5.28/18 0} 46. Bxe5 {71} Bxe5 {
5.44/19 0} 47. Qxa5 {90} Qd6 {5.64/19 0} 48. Rg2 {87} Qe7 {5.79/18 0} 49. Rc4 {
90} Bd6 {5.96/19 0} 50. Nd5 {75} Qe5 {6.20/18 15} 51. Rc6 {27} 1-0

[Steve B]

I think that if we had the competition of Thüringen with the preparation and seriousness that the top operators are giving with Leiden, then we would have a very good chess event. In the current case, yes, we have Jeroen and his book going with Rybka, and we have Hiarcs as usual, but there is nothing other than Rybka and Hiarcs. I don't see this as "spin"--I see it as reality. The name "Leiden" is certainly prestigious, but nobody other than Rybka and Hiarcs took it seriously this year. Now that they have played and drawn their only game, I don't see the event as interesting anymore.

ok i see your point

Leiden this year is not all that meaningful
i Concur regards
Steve

[Eelco de Groot]

This whole thing also begs even more for what I've been saying for quite sometime: you and Lukas should get together on Playchess and play a 10-game 90'+30" match.

It would result in interesting games for sure but would you be interested in looking at pictures of this event? It is not just about chess, at least then I don't think the Leiden participants feel this way, maybe some of the commercials feel that they have little chance of winning at the moment, Chessbase, apart from HIARCS I mean as a Chessbase program also, they have not participated with Fritz or Junior for quite some time, no fault to Leiden I believe...

Eelco

[Harvey Williamson]

Round 6 White v Hermann

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

I think that if we had the competition of Thüringen with the preparation and seriousness that the top operators are giving with Leiden, then we would have a very good chess event. In the current case, yes, we have Jeroen and his book going with Rybka, and we have Hiarcs as usual, but there is nothing other than Rybka and Hiarcs. I don't see this as "spin"--I see it as reality. The name "Leiden" is certainly prestigious, but nobody other than Rybka and Hiarcs took it seriously this year. Now that they have played and drawn their only game, I don't see the event as interesting anymore.

ok i see your point

Leiden this year is not all that meaningful
i Concur regards
Steve

Hi Steve,
I also saw his point and that's why I didn't bite him after I read his post

[Harvey Williamson]

[Event "Blitz:80'"]
[Site "London"]
[Date "2008.05.31"]
[Round "6"]
[White "HIARCS 12.116 MP"]
[Black "Hermann"]
[Result "1-0"]
[PlyCount "77"]
[TimeControl "4800"]

{2048MB, murder.ctg} 1. e4 {B/0 0} c5 {55} 2. Nf3 {B/0 0} d6 {9} 3. d4 {B/0 0}
cxd4 {9} 4. Nxd4 {B/0 0} Nf6 {11} 5. Nc3 {B/0 0} Nc6 {12} 6. Bg5 {B/0 0} e6 {14
} 7. Qd2 {B/0 0} a6 {10} 8. O-O-O {B/0 0} h6 {9} 9. Nxc6 {0.01/1 0} bxc6 {9}
10. Bf4 {0.01/1 0} d5 {9} 11. Qe3 {0.01/1 0} Be7 {8} 12. Be2 {0.01/1 0} Nd7 {8}
13. h4 {0.01/1 0} Nf6 {612} 14. g4 {0.81/18 379} Nd7 {146} 15. exd5 {
0.67/17 226} cxd5 {82} 16. g5 {0.64/18 112} Bb7 {(Qb6) 9} 17. g6 {0.76/17 126}
Qb6 {93} 18. gxf7+ {0.73/16 0} Kxf7 {40} 19. Qg3 {0.50/17 132} Bf6 {32} 20.
Rhg1 {1.10/16 71} Rac8 {94} 21. Bd6 {1.14/16 0} Kg8 {(Ke8) 51} 22. Be7 {
2.32/17 134} Be5 {(Qc7) 147} 23. f4 {3.16/19 186} Re8 {10} 24. Ba3 {3.41/19 256
} Bf6 {83} 25. Bh5 {4.12/19 92} Rc8 {46} 26. Be7 {4.35/18 0} Rh7 {151} 27. Bg6
{4.78/18 0} Qc7 {(Rc7) 64} 28. Rde1 {4.89/18 119} d4 {(Nf8) 20} 29. Rxe6 {
8.02/16 82} Nf8 {27} 30. Bd6 {8.29/18 84} Nxe6 {(Qd8) 12} 31. Bxc7 {10.85/18 77
} Nxc7 {(Kh8) 67} 32. Ne4 {12.89/19 115} Bxe4 {11} 33. Bxe4 {13.13/20 46} Kf8 {
(d3) 14} 34. Qb3 {14.01/17 198} g6 {11} 35. Rxg6 {26.30/17 57} Rf7 {33} 36.
Qb4+ {#17/16 3} Be7 {9} 37. Qxd4 {#16/17 23} Rh7 {112} 38. Rg2 {#14/17 0} Nb5 {
(Rd8) 96} 39. Qe5 {#14/15 55} 1-0

[turbojuice1122]

Hmmm...I'll have to take a look at that loss to Sjeng later--I know that Sjeng is good, but unless it has improved absolutely incredibly from the last version, it's still basically where the top engines were in 2005. Of course, every once in awhile, an engine gets lucky, and that may have happened against Hiarcs today. Recall last year when Junior beat Rybka out of nowhere and then Zzzzzz beat Junior out of nowhere.

Again, I'm not saying that the participants in Leiden don't take it seriously--they do, as well they should, since this tournament has historically had a lot of very strong competitors--I'm saying that this year, you have Rybka and Hiarcs very far above the field, and now it just so happens that Hiarcs had a random loss. There isn't Zappa, Fritz, Shredder, Loop, Fruit/Toga/GridChess, etc.