Is free Rybka 2.2 a killer for professionnal competitors ?

1vfr899 · Post by **1vfr899** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:50 pm

Hello to everybody,

I'm interested with Hiarcs as I own a Zire 72 with Hiarcs 9.7 and I can say I read your posts with interest for fews months.

So my question :

Do you think chess commercial programs (and their programmers in consequence) like Hiarcs, Shredder, ... are in danger because of the release of a free of charge Rybka 2.2 version ? Is is fair ?

What consequences do you expect for the (little) health of computer chess market ?

Krazyken · Post by **Krazyken** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:12 am

Well, for some it's a bit like Pokemon, you've gotta collect them all. For others, it's only the strongest that matters. It depends on what you want from a chess program. Will free programs kill commercial chess? That is a good question.

The short answer is no. There are plenty of other markets where free software competes with commercial software, and people still pay for software.

1vfr899 · Post by **1vfr899** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:58 am

Yes but some people may be ok with a Rybka 2.2 freeware witch is stronger then any other commercials, so no need for them to buy chess software anymore for them...

Actually, releasing a FREE sofware can be a very agressive COMMERCIAL act.

Krazyken · Post by **Krazyken** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:27 pm

If strength is all that matters to you, then you'll be buying Rybka 3, and not be satisfied with Rybka 2.2.

My experience has shown Hiarcs 12.1 to be better than Rybka 2.2. Another limitation in Rybka 2.2 is that it is not available for all computers. Yes, some people are OK with free Rybka, emphasis on SOME. For me, it isn't good enough.

Lukas · Post by **Lukas** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:44 pm

Only the single processor version is free. So there are some engines like Hiarcs 12 mp and Zappa Mexico 64 that are stronger.

Regards,
Lukas

Post by **Fernando** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:42 pm

Rybka free engine, strong as it is, is a killer FOR BARE engines.
I have been here and elsewhere telling this almost to exhaustion: strenght is not anymore the thing and if it is, then the programemr that stick to that belief are really busted.
But of course if someone present to you a funny, rich in features -like Cmaster series of Fritz series- program, you can bet it will keep his customers and perhaps it will get even more.
There is lot of room to do in the GUI, frills, etc area, but not so much in pure chess force.

my best
Fern

Vempele · Post by **Vempele** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:07 pm

Lukas wrote:Only the single processor version is free.

Incorrect. The sp version is not free, only the mp one is.

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:26 pm

i have the free version in my tournament where all others participate and also rybka 3.

it will soon be finished and you will see.

Graham Banks · Post by **Graham Banks** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:27 am

Vempele wrote:
Lukas wrote:Only the single processor version is free.
Incorrect. The sp version is not free, only the mp one is.

The mp version can be set to 1 thread though.

1vfr899 · Post by **1vfr899** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:03 am

Krazyken wrote:If strength is all that matters to you, then you'll be buying Rybka 3, and not be satisfied with Rybka 2.2.

My experience has shown Hiarcs 12.1 to be better than Rybka 2.2. Another limitation in Rybka 2.2 is that it is not available for all computers. Yes, some people are OK with free Rybka, emphasis on SOME. For me, it isn't good enough.

I hope it will be true for a lot of people.

Let continuing to buy commercial engines to perpetuate the diversity of the chess softwares specie.

Peter Grayson · Post by **Peter Grayson** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:46 pm

1vfr899 wrote:
So my question :

Do you think chess commercial programs (and their programmers in consequence) like Hiarcs, Shredder, ... are in danger because of the release of a free of charge Rybka 2.2 version ? Is is fair ?

What consequences do you expect for the (little) health of computer chess market ?

One benefit may be that it becomes easier to identify the areas of engine deficiency when a particular engine such as Rybka 3 leap frogs ahead of the others. Where differences are marginal it can make the way forward very clouded.

There is always likely to be demand for diversity in playing styles and GUI features but whether all existing commercial independants will be viable in the future remains to be seen. There could be some joint ventures perhaps? Rybka already seems to have benefitted from a development team structure with clearly defined roles. Maybe that is the way forward?

PeterG

bnemais · Post by **bnemais** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:08 pm

1vfr899 wrote:Do you think chess commercial programs (and their programmers in consequence) like Hiarcs, Shredder, ... are in danger because of the release of a free of charge Rybka 2.2 version ?

It's hard to say. The only data point I can provide is myself. I haven't bought Rybka 3, yet I bought Hiarcs 12. (still would if I hadn't already)

1vfr899 wrote:Is is fair ?

I think it's fair.

1vfr899 wrote:What consequences do you expect for the (little) health of computer chess market ?

I'm not sure what you mean by "little" here. I think when someone asks me what to get for analysis of their own games, I'll be recommending they get the free Rybka 2.2 version whenever they express interest in a free engine.

But who knows, maybe this will just cause several commercial engines to make one or more earlier versions of their engines free. If Hiarcs 10 or 11 became free, for example, then I'd be recommending that, since I like Hiarcs. If that happens, it may cause an explosion in computer chess interest, generating sales for all commercial engines, and GUI programs. I doubt it, but anything's possible.

Graham Banks · Post by **Graham Banks** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:05 am

1vfr899 wrote: Do you think chess commercial programs (and their programmers in consequence) ......... are in danger because of the release of a free of charge Rybka 2.2 version ?

Judging from the reaction of some in other forums, I'd say that there are a lot of pissed off programmers.

However, those who aren't quitters will strive that little bit harder to better their engines.
Hopefully there are more triers than quitters!

m0nkee1 · Post by **m0nkee1** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:44 pm

It does sound rather aggressive to release a free computer programm
stronger then all the rivals.

Although the Box for Rybka 3 ' Aquarium' looks like it was drawn by an
8 year old. I imagine fish in my game. so I don't think they are that commercially aware!

I care more about playing style then brute strengh. I would still
pay £100 for a Spark, some of the games listed by steve b for that are marvelous. Even if it's not the strongest.

m0nkee1 · Post by **m0nkee1** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:54 pm

I want a computer that plays like Blackburne.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1029000

This is why chess is beautiful!

I think above 2500 elo they are just amorphous number crunchers.

In this game Rybka beats 'The King' in a truly boring fashion
All the flare is with the other programme. But it looses.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1411222

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Is free Rybka 2.2 a killer for professionnal competitors ?

Is free Rybka 2.2 a killer for professionnal competitors ?

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