New webpage: www.chesscomputer.org

[Steve B]

hey, a real collector (joking) that does not know the LEGENDARY C7010 for the Odyssey2 aka VideoPac!

You can find some historic informations (collected from different sources by the way) at my page

http://pongmuseum.com/collection/magnav ... -G7000.php

The C7010 is an expansion module that can only play chess, making your Odyssey 2 a real chess computer.


The Phillips Odyssey 2

OK Thanks
it might be a chess computer but its not a DEDICATED chess computer
Nick M also collects these sorts of pre-PC chess engine thingies

i only collect the real macoys..
well not always ..
this little guy released by Fidelity can tell the future:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 923819227/

his name is..
Dick Head Regards
Steve

(real name is Taro)

[Harvey Williamson]

i only collect the real macoys..

We aim to please.

[chesscomputer.org]

Dear Michael,

i got your mail and will answer it later. Here only the points i like to mention about your wiki. Here the definition at the wikipedia page (in parts):

Wikipedia is a multilingual, web-based, free-content encyclopedia project based on an openly editable model. Wikipedia is written collaboratively by largely anonymous Internet volunteers who write without pay. Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles. Text on Wikipedia is a collaborative work, and the efforts of individual contributors to a page are recorded in that page's history, which is publicly viewable.

You are the host of a wiki - what leads us to the line in your footer, which says on the English and German page "Inhalt ist verfügbar unter der GNU Free Documentation License 1.2.". Translated to english: Content is available under the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2."

Inhalte = Content = photos, text, technical data IS content.

On one hand you are the host of a wiki and the most content on this page seems logically added by visitors. People who work on wiki pages mostly share the idea of free documentation because this is what a wiki is all about. On all your pages you have the GNU License note.

On the other hand you say the wiki page content is copyright by you and you own the rights to all that content. In my view this is not fair to all your visitors who added content to your GNU Licensed page. I did not contacted you because I never thought that a wiki page host would claim a copyright on anything of "his?" page.

I had a look to the first 10 computer listed in the Mephisto category on the wiki.

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Mephisto

Six of this entries have scanned or photographed manufacturers materials, copyright by Mephisto. I do not find any copyright note for that at the images. Is this no copyright violation ?

If you want to reserve the copyright on all the content, you should (only in my view) at least fill out the "Datenschutz" page, that would be the page to write something like "Do not copy from this wiki or you will burn in hell". But still the GNU thing would lead to confusion I think.

I will response on your email tomorrow, my hands are getting tired after this 24 hours with all of you and there is Nick who deserves a message too.

[spacious_mind]

Dear Michael,

i got your mail and will answer it later. Here only the points i like to mention about your wiki. Here the definition at the wikipedia page (in parts):

Wikipedia is a multilingual, web-based, free-content encyclopedia project based on an openly editable model. Wikipedia is written collaboratively by largely anonymous Internet volunteers who write without pay. Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles. Text on Wikipedia is a collaborative work, and the efforts of individual contributors to a page are recorded in that page's history, which is publicly viewable.

You are the host of a wiki - what leads us to the line in your footer, which says on the English and German page "Inhalt ist verfügbar unter der GNU Free Documentation License 1.2.". Translated to english: Content is available under the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2."

Inhalte = Content = photos, text, technical data IS content.

On one hand you are the host of a wiki and the most content on this page seems logically added by visitors. People who work on wiki pages mostly share the idea of free documentation because this is what a wiki is all about. On all your pages you have the GNU License note.

On the other hand you say the wiki page content is copyright by you and you own the rights to all that content. In my view this is not fair to all your visitors who added content to your GNU Licensed page. I did not contacted you because I never thought that a wiki page host would claim a copyright on anything of "his?" page.

I had a look to the first 10 computer listed in the Mephisto category on the wiki.

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Mephisto

Six of this entries have scanned or photographed manufacturers materials, copyright by Mephisto. I do not find any copyright note for that at the images. Is this no copyright violation ?

If you want to reserve the copyright on all the content, you should (only in my view) at least fill out the "Datenschutz" page, that would be the page to write something like "Do not copy from this wiki or you will burn in hell". But still the GNU thing would lead to confusion I think.

I will response on your email tomorrow, my hands are getting tired after this 24 hours with all of you and there is Nick who deserves a message too.

Hi Oliver,

I do not need a response from you. Mike Watters posting clearly and concisely worded the request for disassociation. My request to you is 100% the same request.

I have no interest in debating this with you further.

Thanks and best regards,

Nick

[chesscomputer.org]

Dear Nick, we do not need to discuss this any fourther.

Because i like to clear things up here i add the message i wrote in the last minutes.

First of all, you have a very nice website. Easy to navigate and lots of useful informations. I am very sorry you see my page a commercial project, this is not my intention. As i wrote before my hobby is to create webpages about topics I am interested in. I do a lot of research in the beginning, then the page is created and as the first visitors the related info sources are contacted and asked for permission.

You say I have opened the page in December 2010, but in fact I reserved the domain on 3. 1. 2011, worked two weeks on it and got finished on the 18. 01. 2011. The date I contacted you the first time by mail. You are maybe confused by older news articles but i added some older news because I do not wanted an empty news area.

I am sorry losing the links to your pages, but I like the eBay function that much that I prefer that. Even if you call it commercial again. In an older message (maybe 4 hours) you find the actual earning statistic for my page. 2,08 Euro for February so far. Wow, it will take some time to get my first million.

[chesscomputer.org]

Copy of email

Hi Oliver

I am the owner of two of the websites from which you have taken photos and content, and added links.

www.chesscomputer.uk
www.pinpoint1.f2s.com

I would be grateful if you would delete the links and remove the photos and content from your website which relate to those sites. These are hobby sites which I have no wish to see associated with any commercial content. There are frequent requests for me to do just that, which I always resist.

Should you in future develop the http://chesscomputer.org website as a non-commercial hobby site with original and useful material for chess computer enthusiasts I would be only too happy to offer encouragement and congratulations.

Best regards
Mike Watters

Dear Mike Watters, I am sorry you did not responded to my first mail, so it took that long time to get this cleared. I have removed all links and photos on your request.

[chesscomputer.org]

Anyone else ? I still wait for a reaction of some collectors on my second request. Is this realy ask to much to give one line of response ?

I will tomorrow contact all sites linked from my links page, before I get in jail for that.

I hope I found all contend that you where the copyright owners and removed it. Drop me a note if I missed something to remove you are holding any copyright.

To all collectors and normal people who like my page: I have removed some photos in the last 24 hours. Here is my missing list:

Applied Concepts Inc. - Boris Diplomat
Applied Concepts Inc. - Destiny Mini Master | Prodigy
Excalibur - Excalibur Explorer
Excalibur - Excalibur Chess Express
Fidelity Electronics - Gambit
SciSys - Intelligent Chess

If anyone has such a computer I would be happy to get a photo of it, credits included (if you want one, I am a bit confused about this now).

Have a nice day, Oliver

[spacious_mind]

Dear Nick, we do not need to discuss this any fourther.

Because i like to clear things up here i add the message i wrote in the last minutes.

First of all, you have a very nice website. Easy to navigate and lots of useful informations. I am very sorry you see my page a commercial project, this is not my intention. As i wrote before my hobby is to create webpages about topics I am interested in. I do a lot of research in the beginning, then the page is created and as the first visitors the related info sources are contacted and asked for permission.

You say I have opened the page in December 2010, but in fact I reserved the domain on 3. 1. 2011, worked two weeks on it and got finished on the 18. 01. 2011. The date I contacted you the first time by mail. You are maybe confused by older news articles but i added some older news because I do not wanted an empty news area.

I am sorry losing the links to your pages, but I like the eBay function that much that I prefer that. Even if you call it commercial again. In an older message (maybe 4 hours) you find the actual earning statistic for my page. 2,08 Euro for February so far. Wow, it will take some time to get my first million.

Hi Oliver,

Thanks for your response. Good luck with your efforts. Should you ever change your views then please feel free to contact me again.

With regards to what your earnings are is irrellevant and has no bearing at all and you know this.

Best regards,

Nick

[Steve B]

Well its not all that often that we in the dedicated chess computer community have a debate like this
generally we Dedicated Computer folks are above the day to day arguments and mud-slinging that the PC Engine folks always seem to be mired in


I have two thoughts on the issue
1)i agree that a commercial site needs to get permission if it is using others links and photos
however here it seems the sites author is willing to remove anything that anyone objects too so that is good enough for me
2)Far Far more importantly however ...
it seems i am the only collector in the whole world with a web site that Oliver did not link too!
should i be insulted i wonder??


Seriously though..
IF Oliver's site in non-commercial then he can link to my site and use my photos
If the site is commercial i think ill just pass on being linked to

Mixed Emotions Regards
Steve

Well it seem to me Steve that you were not forgotten either

http://chesscomputer.org/page/AppliedConcepts/

regards

Nick

Ooooops that was quick. Your fame was short lived Steve The link has now been switched to Mike Watters site

Short lived fame best regards to you Steve my friend

Thats Ok Nick
the .Info site never linked to me either
I'm used to being forgotten and ignored by now

Rodney Dangerfield Sends His Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

To continue the OT digression from the thread topic(Sorry Oliver)

About 2 years ago my Conchess T8 module decided to give up the ghost
kaput.. as in dead
i sent the module over to the person i used regularly to try to fix it
in addition to being a Correspondence GM he was a wiz at fixing the old computers
tried as he did he just couldn't repair it

i pretty much gave up on the T8 which pissed me off and broke my heart
pissed me off .. because it is very rare
broke my heart.. because it was very expensive

that is ..until i recently sent the module to Kostea to have a go at it
after a few weeks he diagnosed the problem..ordered the parts and sent it back to me

here is a game i just now played against the T8 loaded with the L16 book module..
i used the spiffy Escorter II board:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 922173914/
TC was 3 minutes per move
at this level T8 searches about 9-10 ply per move
none of the Conchess programs play a particularly good endgame which is where it went afoul here in a dead drawn R+P endgame...
[Date "2011.02.20"]
[White "Steve B."]
[Black "Conchess T8(L16 opening book)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D07"]
[PlyCount "93"]
[TimeControl "3 MIN/AVG."]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. e3 e6 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. cxd5 exd5 6.
Nf3 Nge7 7. Bd3 Bxc3+ 8. bxc3 Bf5 9. Qc2 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 O-O 11. O-O Na5 12. Ba3
Nc4 13. Bxe7 Qxe7 14. Nd2 Nxd2 15. Qxd2 c6 16. Rab1 b5 17. Rfe1 g6 18. Qd3 Qf6
19. e4 dxe4 20. Rxe4 Rae8 21. Rbe1 Qf5 22. Qe2 Qxe4 23. Qxe4 Rxe4 24. Rxe4 Kg7
25. Re7 a5 26. Rc7 Re8 27. Kf1 Re6 28. a3

[fen]8/2R2pkp/2p1r1p1/pp6/3P4/P1P5/5PPP/5K2 b - - 0 28[/fen]
the game is basically a dead draw
if the Terminator 8 just shuffles his King (f6-g7) i cant make any meaningful headway
instead he plays 28..Rd6 allowing my King to enter the game

28..Rd6 29. Ke2 Kf6 30. Kd3 h5 31.c4

[fen]8/2R2p2/2pr1kp1/pp5p/2PP4/P2K4/5PPP/8 b - - 0 31 [/fen]
31..bxc4+ is mandatory for black here
instead Terminator essays forth the howler 31..a4 allowing 32.c5!
the rest is a matter of technique


32..Re6 33. Kc3 Kg7 34. Kb4 g5 35. Ka5 g4 36. Kb6 Rf6 37. d5 cxd5+ 38. c6 b4
39. axb4 d4 40. Rd7 a3 41. Rxd4 a2 42. Rd1 Rf4 43. b5 Rb4 44. Ra1 Rb1 45. Rxa2
Re1 46. c7 Re8 47. Kb7 *

FINAL POSITION

[fen]4r3/1KP2pk1/8/1P5p/6p1/8/R4PPP/8 b - - 0 46 [/fen]

I Resigned for the T8 here...even i cant blow this position
now some wise ass will undoubtedly remark that the T8 played so badly in the endgame that it looks like it hadn't been repaired at all!

So a big thanks to Kostea for bringing this baby back to life!

In the upcoming Paris Tournament(May 2011) i am toying with the idea of operating the even rarer Conchess Queen Victoria Plymate module
with the Victoria Library book module..
this years event will have an upper 1900 Elo limit

I' ll Be Back Regards
Steve
Complete PGN..
1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. e3 e6 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. cxd5 exd5
6.Nf3 Nge7 7. Bd3 Bxc3+ 8. bxc3 Bf5 9. Qc2 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 O-O 11. O-O Na5 12. Ba3
Nc4 13. Bxe7 Qxe7 14. Nd2 Nxd2 15. Qxd2 c6 16. Rab1 b5 17. Rfe1 g6 18. Qd3 Qf6
19. e4 dxe4 20. Rxe4 Rae8 21. Rbe1 Qf5 22. Qe2 Qxe4 23. Qxe4 Rxe4 24. Rxe4 Kg7
25. Re7 a5 26. Rc7 Re8 27. Kf1 Re6 28. a3 Rd6 29. Ke2 Kf6 30. Kd3 h5 31. c4 a4
32. c5 Re6 33. Kc3 Kg7 34. Kb4 g5 35. Ka5 g4 36. Kb6 Rf6 37. d5 cxd5+ 38. c6 b4
39. axb4 d4 40. Rd7 a3 41. Rxd4 a2 42. Rd1 Rf4 43. b5 Rb4 44. Ra1 Rb1 45. Rxa2
Re1 46. c7 Re8 47. Kb7 *

[Mythbuster]

Hi folks,
this posting comes direct from Michael from www.schachcomputer.info ... he is still waiting for activating his account on this community ...

Due the fact that his posting is an official statement and very long he beg for your pardon that his posting is in German. That should also prevent misunderstandings because the owner of chesscomputer.org is also German.

If the are any question, feel free to aks me ... I will translate ..

Sunny Sunday Regards,
Sascha


By Michael Völschow:


Sehr geehrter Herr Olivier Soehlke,

ich verfasse meine Antwort in deutsch, um meinen Worten den korrekten Ausdruck zu verleihen. Sascha (Mythbuster) wird, wenn es seine Zeit erlaubt, diesen Text ins englische übersetzen.

Ihre Aussage zu meiner Person und zu den Seiten von schach-computer.info erreichen mittlerweile ein unverschämtes Ausmaß. Ich hatte ihnen gestern Abend eine E-Mail zukommen lassen, in denen ich meinen Standpunkt deutlich klargelegt habe.

Aber ich fasse diesen hier noch einmal zusammen.

Grundsätzlich haben die Seiten der Schachcomputer.info Wiki nichts mit der Wikipedia zu tun. Die Schachcomputer.info Wiki ist ein privates Projekt der Schachcomputer.info Community.

Ihre Argumentation hinsichtlich GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 ist nicht korrekt. Wenn Sie sich auf die genannte Lizenz berufen, müssen auch Sie sich an die Vorgaben halten. Es genügt z.B. nicht, ein einfaches Copyright Symbol unter ein Bild zu stellen. Verstoßen Sie gegen die Auflagen der Documentation License 1.2, ist die Lizenz umgehend unwirksam.

Wenn Sie sich, bezogen auf ihre Website chesscomputer.org auf die Documentation License 1.2 berufen möchten, versichere ich ihnen, dass der Aufbau ihrer Seiten dieser Lizenz nicht gerecht wird. Diese Lizenz besagt nicht, dass man alles frei kopieren und verwenden darf. Das deutsche Recht sieht diese Auslegung völlig anders. Die Rechtslage ist in Deutschland bezogen auf das Urheberrecht von z.B. Lichtbildwerken und Werken, die ähnlich wie Lichtbildwerke geschaffen wurden sehr restriktiv gefasst.

Da ich in Deutschland lebe, muss ich mich an geltendes deutsches Recht halten. Dazu zählt auch das Urheberrecht. Nach deutschem Recht gibt es kein Copyright. Diese Bezeichnung stammt aus dem anglo-amerikanischen Rechtsraum. Da Sie ihren Wohnsitz aber in Deutschland führen, unterliegen Sie somit deutschem Recht, d.h. es tritt das Urheberrecht in Kraft. Das Urheberrecht entsteht in Deutschland mit der Werkschöpfung und kann nicht vollständig weiter gereicht werden. Die Urheberpersönlichkeitsrechte verbleiben nach deutschem Recht grundsätzlich beim Urheber. Bezogen auf ihre Webseite chesscomputer.org, haben Sie somit einen Verstoß gegen das Urheberrecht begangen (§ 2 Abs. I Nr. 5 UrhG und § 72 UrhG), was eine Klage nach sich ziehen kann.

Es ist mir nach deutschem Recht strikt untersagt, die Rechte an z.B. Lichtbildwerken und Werken, die ähnlich wie Lichtbildwerke geschaffen wurden weiterzugeben.

Auch in der von ihnen zitieren Wikipedia ist es nicht zulässig Texte, Bilder etc. ohne Erfüllung der Lizenzbestimmungen zu entnehmen. Die Wikipedia schreibt sehr genau vor, welche Bedingungen erfüllt sein müssen, um gewisse Dinge entnehmen zu können.

Sie missachten diese Lizenz vollständig, erfüllen nicht einmal ansatzweise die Grundvoraussetzungen, um sich auf diese Lizenz berufen zu können.

Sie missachten die Rechte der Bildhersteller. Sie nehmen teilweise ungefragt Bilder und Texte von fremden Webseiten, ohne die Erlaubnis der Rechteinhaber eingeholt zu haben.

Sie missachten die Arbeit von Personen, die sich in vielen Jahren, ihre Seiten mühevoll erarbeitet haben. Es interessiert sich nicht im geringsten, ob ihnen eine Genehmigung der Webseiten Betreiber vorliegt.

Ich frage Sie, Oliver Soehlke, mit welchem Recht erdreisten Sie sich, so eine Webseite zu erstellen? Woher nehmen Sie das Recht, die Arbeit anderer Personen mit Füßen zu treten?

Sie missachten die einfachsten Grundregeln des Anstandes, erwarten aber, dass man ihnen Verständnis entgegenbringt. Mit welchem Recht?

Nach deutschem Recht gilt ihre Seite als kommerziell, da Sie mit diesen Seiten Geld verdienen. Dabei spielt es keine Rolle, wie viel Sie mit diesen Seiten verdienen. Auch in diesem Fall missachtet der Aufbau ihrer Webseite das Gesetz. Wie welchem Recht stellen Sie sich über geltende Gesetze?

Im Gegensatz zu ihnen, achte ich die Rechte anderer Personen.

Im Gegensatz zu ihnen, setze ich mich nicht über geltendes Recht hinweg.

Im Gegensatz zu ihnen, respektiere ich die Arbeit anderer Personen.

Und dafür wollen Sie eine Rechtfertigung von mir? Wer glauben Sie zu sein?

Ich bin ihnen keine Rechenschaft schuldig. Ebenso wenig die Betreiber von vielen Webseiten, deren Inhalte sie ohne Befragung entnommen haben. Ich habe bisher keine Entschuldigung von ihnen gelesen. Sie versuchen sich zu rechtfertigen, wo keine Rechtfertigung möglich ist.

Ich wünsche keinen weiteren Mail Kontakt mit ihnen.

Michael Völschow


P.S.: Steve, I will never forget you. You will always be a part of my heart.

[spacious_mind]

Well its not all that often that we in the dedicated chess computer community have a debate like this
generally we Dedicated Computer folks are above the day to day arguments and mud-slinging that the PC Engine folks always seem to be mired in


I have two thoughts on the issue
1)i agree that a commercial site needs to get permission if it is using others links and photos
however here it seems the sites author is willing to remove anything that anyone objects too so that is good enough for me
2)Far Far more importantly however ...
it seems i am the only collector in the whole world with a web site that Oliver did not link too!
should i be insulted i wonder??


Seriously though..
IF Oliver's site in non-commercial then he can link to my site and use my photos
If the site is commercial i think ill just pass on being linked to

Mixed Emotions Regards
Steve

Well it seem to me Steve that you were not forgotten either

http://chesscomputer.org/page/AppliedConcepts/

regards

Nick

Ooooops that was quick. Your fame was short lived Steve The link has now been switched to Mike Watters site

Short lived fame best regards to you Steve my friend

Thats Ok Nick
the .Info site never linked to me either
I'm used to being forgotten and ignored by now

Rodney Dangerfield Sends His Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

I just realized that I never linked to you either (well not directly). If you grant me your permission then I would love to correct that in my next update.

Been busy lately changed job, moving soon... lots of distractions at the moment.... but you are all still in my heart.

Best regards,


Nick

[spacious_mind]

P.S.: Steve, I will never forget you. You will always be a part of my heart.



[/i]

Hi Steve,

I think Sascha (Mythbuster) forgot to add an important last Line to Micha's email:

Here it is again:

P.S.: Steve, I will never forget you. You will always be a part of my heart.

http://www.schachcomputer.info/links/br ... ks.php?c=2

Your presence is always at Info.

Best regards,

Nick

[Steve B]

P.S.: Steve, I will never forget you. You will always be a part of my heart.



[/i]

Hi Steve,

I think Sascha (Mythbuster) forgot to add an important last Line to Micha's email:

Here it is again:

P.S.: Steve, I will never forget you. You will always be a part of my heart.

http://www.schachcomputer.info/links/br ... ks.php?c=2

Your presence is always at Info.

Best regards,

Nick

Thanks Nick
of course you have my permission to link to my web page
and thank Mischa for linking to me as well

Missing Link Regards
Steve

[Mythbuster]

And nobody is linking me ... that's so sad ...

Painful Regards,
Sascha