David Levy Article - Attack of the clones

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:12 pm

http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/attac ... more-35310

I will feed back any interesting comments to the ICGA.

The above in PDF http://www.chessvibes.com/plaatjes/Clon ... th2011.pdf

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:31 pm

David has submitted this reply to his own article above that can be read by following the links above:

Thanks to all of you who have thus far shown an interest in this matter. There are too many comments for me to reply to every one, so I hope that the following will deal with most of your comments.

First the question of Herr Langer in Portoroz. One posting says:

“Apparently it is customary for other descalficar ICGA without proof, or otherwise respond david: ICGA was the case Langer source code?”

As my article points out, Herr Langer confessed to having copied Richard Lang’s program, when it was pointed out to him that Richard Lang’s program had a bug that was reproduced exactly in “Langer’s” program. When the accused confesses, backed up by evidence such as this, there is no real need to examine source code.

The main point I would like to make right now is that the ICGA is in the process of setting up a tribunal in which chess programmers will be able to discuss allegations of cloning and whatever evidence is available to support or disprove such allegations. The ICGA will be strongly guided by this tribunal in its decisions as to the truth or otherwise of such allegations, and in its decisions as to what sanctions if any should be imposed on those found by the tribunal to have cloned the programs of others. This tribunal will thus be a kind of court, in which anyone accused of cloning will be judged by their peers. If any of you can find anything wrong in this approach please say so.

Finally, I would like to comment on the suggestion that my mind is already made up in the case of the Rybka-Fruit issue.

What I have said is that I believe the evidence presented thus far against Vaskik Rajlich is rather compelling in its volume and nature. This is quite a natural reaction when the vast majority of evidence presented in this discussion had been on the “prosecution” side. Although Vasik Rajlich has replied to some of his accusers, he has not yet, I believe, presented a substantive case for his defence. He will, as part of the process and regulations of the tribunal, be invited to present whatever evidence and arguments he wishes. All of the tribunal discussions will be conducted with the real names of those posting on the tribunal’s forum – no anonymity allowed – so no-one will be able to hide behind the cloak of a handle. It is my belief that in this way Vasik will receive a fair hearing from his peers, and that his peers will, in the end, be able to make a fair and balanced judgment on the case.

As to the question of accusations against other chess programs, they will also form part of the tribunal’s deliberations, which will be conducted on a case-by-case basis.

The ICGA has already received two offers to host the tribunal’s forum, and a decision is likely to be taken in the next few days as to which offer will be taken up. I shall post further information about the forum during this week.

David Levy

IA · Post by IA » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:38 am

I truly believe that to be true all that will appear should give Hiarcs the world title in 2008 and he did a superb tournament and he deserved it, too Deep Junior was a tournament in Pamplona 2009 amazing and deserves it Is not just a programmer and Mark leading from his youth to improve their original chess program is harmed in this way, if proved the dubious origin seems that Rybka is now trying to damage David Levy then turns out that all other developers have been hurt.

There is a point much worse than what is being said lately of the Clones, when after all these programs do not stop being a hobby for personal use that are not marketed well, but an engine if it is marketed and has won several world titles if it proves to be a clone or derivative of another program so if it is a much more serious.

Hopefully for the good of chess all this is cleared up soon and that each is in its rightful place at the moment Rybka and Houdini are listed by CCRL as chess engines of dubious origin ( Controversial )

http://computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040.l ... ons_only=1

Regards...

Post by **Steve B** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:34 pm

IA wrote:I truly believe that to be true all that will appear should give Hiarcs the world title in 2008 and he did a superb tournament and he deserved it, too Deep Junior was a tournament in Pamplona 2009 amazing and deserves it Is not just a programmer and Mark leading from his youth to improve their original chess program is harmed in this way, if proved the dubious origin seems that Rybka is now trying to damage David Levy then turns out that all other developers have been hurt.

There is a point much worse than what is being said lately of the Clones, when after all these programs do not stop being a hobby for personal use that are not marketed well, but an engine if it is marketed and has won several world titles if it proves to be a clone or derivative of another program so if it is a much more serious.

Hopefully for the good of chess all this is cleared up soon and that each is in its rightful place at the moment Rybka and Houdini are listed by CCRL as chess engines of dubious origin ( Controversial )

http://computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040.l ... ons_only=1

Regards...

i wonder..
if Rybka were striped of its WCCC title for the years 2007-2010 and the 2nd place finishers were awarded the title ..who would the new champions be?
Regards
Steve

IA · Post by IA » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:31 pm

Hi Steve B, the tournament organizers are responsible for everything is in order and they are the ones to avoid the occurrence of irregularities which could harm the other competitors and therefore they who must implement the existing standards in each competition , developers already have enough to concentrate to make a strong tournament, I think if the rules are applied there should be no problem.

Perhaps one solution is giving the title runner-up of each competition, but these are the organizers of the tournaments that I have to say that this put them standards.

Regards....

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:47 pm

A further post on Chessvibes by David Levy:

The ICGA Clone and Derivative Investigation Panel

By David Levy

I am pleased to be able to announce the establishment of the ICGA Clone and Derivative Investigation Panel. The founding statutes of the panel are appended below. The Secretariat comprises Robert Hyatt, Mark Lefler and Harvey Williamson.

Those chess programmers and others who are interested in joining the panel may apply at http://www.icga.wikispaces.com We particularly urge all of you who have taken part in past ICGA (and ICCA) events to join the panel so as to give the benefit of your experience to the discussions that will take place there.

The first matter to be investigated by the panel will be the allegations that have been appearing on various web sites and forums, leading to my recent article “Attack of the Clones” that was published on http://www.chessvibes.com However, the brief of the panel is to examine all allegations of cloning and derivative program creation where a prima facie case has been made and brought to the panel’s attention. This can extend beyond chess, into the realm of the other games contested at the annual Computer Olympiads. In the case of games other than chess appropriate experts will be invited by the ICGA to join the panel.

ICGA Clone and Derivative Investigation Panel

Founding statutes: February 22nd 2011

1 Purpose

The purpose of the Panel shall be to:

[a] Investigate and discuss allegations of cloning or creating a derivative of strategy games programs;

Report to the ICGA as to the veracity or otherwise of such allegations;

[c] Make recommendations to the ICGA as to what action if any should be taken against those found by the Panel to have been guilty of cloning or creating a derivative;

[d] Publish the findings of the Panel.

2 Membership

The Panel shall be open to:

[a] Programmers who have participated in any ICGA or ICCA World Championship
for computer chess or in any Computer Olympiad or in any other computer competitions deemed appropriate by the ICGA.

The office-bearers of the ICGA;

[c] Persons accepted as experts by the ICGA or by a unanimous decision of the Secretariat of the Panel.

Membership may be denied or rescinded to those deemed by the ICGA to have breached the normal ethical bounds expected of members.

Members may only participate under their own name. No anonymous membership or participation in discussions will be permitted.

There shall be no membership fees.

3 Operation of the Panel

[a] The Panel shall conduct its discussions on a Web site forum closed to non-members.

All discussions on the Panel’s web site forum shall be in English.

[c] The Panel’s web site shall be operated and maintained by a person or persons invited by the ICGA to do so.

[d] The day-to-day activities of the Panel shall be managed by a Secretariat of three members of the Panel who shall be invited or approved by the ICGA. The ICGA shall have the right to replace members of the Secretariat at its sole discretion upon giving seven days notice on the forum.

[e] For all general decisions relating to the day-to-day running of the Panel and its forum a majority decision of the Secretariat shall suffice. In any matters deemed by the ICGA to be of an especially crucial or controversial nature the ICGA may overrule a decision of the Secretariat.

[f] Anyone against whom an allegation of cloning or creating a derivative has been made on the forum shall have the right to respond in the forum to each and every posting relating to such allegations, provided that such person is a current member of the forum. In the case of persons who have previously been barred from participating in the forum, for example persons previously found by the Panel to have been guilty of cloning, such persons shall be invited by the Secretariat to present their defence to the Panel as and when the Secretariat feels is appropriate.

[g] The Secretariat shall normally decide when an allegation of cloning or creating a derivative program has been sufficiently investigated and discussed in the forum. At such time the Secretariat shall be responsible for presenting to the ICGA the Panel’s report on the allegations, and on the defence if any offered by those against whom the allegations have been made, and on the findings of the Panel as to the veracity or otherwise of the allegations. The Secretariat’s report to the ICGA shall include its recommendations if any as to what action if any should be taken by the ICGA in respect of sanctions against anyone found by the Panel to have been guilty of cloning or creating a derivative. Before making its decisions the ICGA shall invite the accused to present any comments they might have on the Panel’s findings and recommendations.

[h] The ICGA shall consider the reports and recommendations of the Panel and shall at its sole discretion decide upon what action if any should be taken. The sanctions that the ICGA might take against those found guilty of cloning or creating a derivative include but are not limited to:

Banning the guilty person(s) from participation in future ICGA events for any period deemed appropriate by the ICGA;

[ii] Publicizing, wheresoever it deems appropriate, the allegations and the names of those who have been investigated by the Panel and the findings of the Panel;

[iii] Recommending to other computer event organizers the exclusion of persons who have been found guilty by the Panel.

[iv] Annulling any titles that have already been awarded to programs that have since found by the Panel to have been clones or derivative programs, and demanding the return of any prize money paid to the offending programmer(s).

4 General Matters

[a] These statutes may be changed at any time by the ICGA at its sole discretion, upon the giving of 30 days notice in the forum.

The Panel shall be an advisory body of the ICGA. In all matters of dispute the decision of the ICGA shall be final.

* * * * * * *

Post by **Steve B** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:52 pm

Glad to see provision 3(h)(iv)

Good Luck in your deliberations Regards
Steve

Graham Banks · Post by **Graham Banks** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:57 am

With all due respect Harvey, I'd have liked to have seen the panel restricted to programmers only.

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:38 pm

Latest version of the BB+ PDF is here updated feb 24th: http://www.open-chess.org/download/file.php?id=304

I am pleased to say that BB has joined us on the ICGA panel.

sidserious · Post by **sidserious** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:03 am

Harvey Williamson wrote:Latest version of the BB+ PDF is here updated feb 24th: http://www.open-chess.org/download/file.php?id=304

I am pleased to say that BB has joined us on the ICGA panel.

This is supposed to be a serious panel composed of some_nameless entities? BB? What the hell is that? When are we going to turn in our "Little Orphan Annie" secret decoder rings, and start acting like mature adults.

Post by **Harvey Williamson** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:30 am

sidserious wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:Latest version of the BB+ PDF is here updated feb 24th: http://www.open-chess.org/download/file.php?id=304

I am pleased to say that BB has joined us on the ICGA panel.
This is supposed to be a serious panel composed of some_nameless entities? BB? What the hell is that? When are we going to turn in our "Little Orphan Annie" secret decoder rings, and start acting like mature adults.

As the rules say he must give his real name to join the panel and he has.

Graham Banks · Post by **Graham Banks** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:56 am

Harvey Williamson wrote:
sidserious wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:Latest version of the BB+ PDF is here updated feb 24th: http://www.open-chess.org/download/file.php?id=304

I am pleased to say that BB has joined us on the ICGA panel.
This is supposed to be a serious panel composed of some_nameless entities? BB? What the hell is that? When are we going to turn in our "Little Orphan Annie" secret decoder rings, and start acting like mature adults.
As the rules say he must give his real name to join the panel and he has.

Where?

tomgdrums · Post by **tomgdrums** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:04 am

Graham Banks wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:
sidserious wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:Latest version of the BB+ PDF is here updated feb 24th: http://www.open-chess.org/download/file.php?id=304

I am pleased to say that BB has joined us on the ICGA panel.
This is supposed to be a serious panel composed of some_nameless entities? BB? What the hell is that? When are we going to turn in our "Little Orphan Annie" secret decoder rings, and start acting like mature adults.
As the rules say he must give his real name to join the panel and he has.
Where?

Yeah! Who is BB???

I feel like I am in the beginning of Ayn Rand Novel!

Seriously who is BB??

sidserious · Post by **sidserious** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:20 am

tomgdrums wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:
sidserious wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:Latest version of the BB+ PDF is here updated feb 24th: http://www.open-chess.org/download/file.php?id=304

I am pleased to say that BB has joined us on the ICGA panel.
This is supposed to be a serious panel composed of some_nameless entities? BB? What the hell is that? When are we going to turn in our "Little Orphan Annie" secret decoder rings, and start acting like mature adults.
As the rules say he must give his real name to join the panel and he has.
Where?
Yeah! Who is BB???

I feel like I am in the beginning of Ayn Rand Novel!

Seriously who is BB??

You might say he's a "bulletin board"

bnc1 · Post by **bnc1** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:29 am

Graham Banks wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:
sidserious wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:Latest version of the BB+ PDF is here updated feb 24th: http://www.open-chess.org/download/file.php?id=304

I am pleased to say that BB has joined us on the ICGA panel.
This is supposed to be a serious panel composed of some_nameless entities? BB? What the hell is that? When are we going to turn in our "Little Orphan Annie" secret decoder rings, and start acting like mature adults.
As the rules say he must give his real name to join the panel and he has.
Where?

He signed his name at the end of the Fruit document linked to previously in this thread