One of My Games........

[Harvey Williamson]

I recently finished this game against a former ICCF World Champion in the candidates section of the current World Championship. I asked another well known World Champ, Vishy Anand, to write some brief notes in the game:

[Event "WCCC32CT03"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2013.09.08"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Williamson, Harvey D."]
[Black "Hamarat, Tunc"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C11"]
[WhiteElo "2491"]
[BlackElo "2604"]
[Annotator "Anand"]
[PlyCount "87"]
[EventDate "2012.09.20"]
[EventType "corr"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 Be7 8. dxc5
O-O 9. Qd2 Bxc5 10. O-O-O Qa5 11. a3 a6 12. Bxc5 Qxc5 (12... Nxc5 13. Qe3 {
Leko-Wang 2013}) 13. Bd3 Re8 (13... b5 14. Bxh7+ $1 {is a nice trap}) (13... f6
{given how the game goes, perhaps Black should do this}) 14. Ne2 b5 15. Ned4
Rb8 16. c3 Nxd4 17. Nxd4 Qb6 (17... b4 18. axb4 Rxb4 19. Bxh7+ $1) 18. b4 {The
key move. Kills any counterplay Black may have had} Qc7 19. Bc2 Nf8 20. h4 {
the rest is almost clinical} a5 21. h5 Bd7 22. Rh3 axb4 23. cxb4 {now the c
file is added to Black's list of problems} Rec8 24. Qf2 Be8 25. Kb1 Ra8 26. Qh4
Ra6 27. Kb2 Nd7 28. h6 (28. Rg3 {is easier}) 28... g6 29. Bb3 Rb6 30. Re3 Qd8
31. Qg3 (31. Qxd8 Rxd8 32. Rc3 {should also win}) 31... Nf8 32. f5 Bd7 33. fxg6
Nxg6 34. Bc2 Qe7 35. Rf1 Be8 36. Bxg6 hxg6 37. h7+ Kh8 38. Qf4 Qf8 39. Rh3 Qg7
40. Qg5 Rb7 41. Rc1 Ra8 42. Rhc3 Rba7 43. Rc8 Rxa3 44. Rxe8+ {After move 18,
Black couldnt do anything. Perhaps the whole line after 13...Re8 is unplayable?
} 1-0

[spacious_mind]

I recently finished this game against a former ICCF World Champion in the candidates section of the current World Championship. I asked another well known World Champ, Vishy Anand, to write some brief notes in the game:

[Event "WCCC32CT03"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2013.09.08"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Williamson, Harvey D."]
[Black "Hamarat, Tunc"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C11"]
[WhiteElo "2491"]
[BlackElo "2604"]
[Annotator "Anand"]
[PlyCount "87"]
[EventDate "2012.09.20"]
[EventType "corr"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 Be7 8. dxc5
O-O 9. Qd2 Bxc5 10. O-O-O Qa5 11. a3 a6 12. Bxc5 Qxc5 (12... Nxc5 13. Qe3 {
Leko-Wang 2013}) 13. Bd3 Re8 (13... b5 14. Bxh7+ $1 {is a nice trap}) (13... f6
{given how the game goes, perhaps Black should do this}) 14. Ne2 b5 15. Ned4
Rb8 16. c3 Nxd4 17. Nxd4 Qb6 (17... b4 18. axb4 Rxb4 19. Bxh7+ $1) 18. b4 {The
key move. Kills any counterplay Black may have had} Qc7 19. Bc2 Nf8 20. h4 {
the rest is almost clinical} a5 21. h5 Bd7 22. Rh3 axb4 23. cxb4 {now the c
file is added to Black's list of problems} Rec8 24. Qf2 Be8 25. Kb1 Ra8 26. Qh4
Ra6 27. Kb2 Nd7 28. h6 (28. Rg3 {is easier}) 28... g6 29. Bb3 Rb6 30. Re3 Qd8
31. Qg3 (31. Qxd8 Rxd8 32. Rc3 {should also win}) 31... Nf8 32. f5 Bd7 33. fxg6
Nxg6 34. Bc2 Qe7 35. Rf1 Be8 36. Bxg6 hxg6 37. h7+ Kh8 38. Qf4 Qf8 39. Rh3 Qg7
40. Qg5 Rb7 41. Rc1 Ra8 42. Rhc3 Rba7 43. Rc8 Rxa3 44. Rxe8+ {After move 18,
Black couldnt do anything. Perhaps the whole line after 13...Re8 is unplayable?
} 1-0

Wow that is cool Harvey! What are the rules on correspondence chess are you allowed computer assistance or are you on your own?

That is really nice of Vishy to evaluate the game.

Best regards,

[Harvey Williamson]

I think it has become accepted that you can use them. Take a look here at the ICCF website http://www.iccf-webchess.com/

[Steve B]

Fine achievement
looks like you could become the next ICCF World Champion!
Two Champions in this forum

Forum Of Champions Regards
Steve

[Monsieur Plastique]

I think it has become accepted that you can use them. Take a look here at the ICCF website http://www.iccf-webchess.com/

Well to be honest I am glad that is the case, because commonsense dictates that if they were officially banned, mayhem would result these days. Back when I played my last correspondence game (mid 90s), I was up a Knight and winning, then my opponent suddenly grew by about 1000 ELO points and I lost the game. It was like my opponent turned into the Incredible Hulk. Not impressed. At least these days you know where you stand.

I guess what we are looking at here is a very slow form of non-OTB Advanced Chess. Personally I don't think I would be very good at it. On the other hand, I can imagine that some incredibly powerful chess can be played in this way.

My personal take on it these days is that the relative abilities of the human players still remains, chess engines or not, so long as everyone can and does use them.

Maybe I might try a game soon - me (with HIARCS looking over my shoulder) versus Fritz 13 . It all actually sounds lke it could be more fun that the old days, so long as everyone sings from the same hymn book.

But...

1600 Elo for me no matter what Regards

[Harvey Williamson]

The ICCF published the game here http://www.iccf-webchess.com/Message.aspx?message=577

[RadioSmall]

I recently finished this game against a former ICCF World Champion in the candidates section of the current World Championship. I asked another well known World Champ, Vishy Anand, to write some brief notes in the game:

[Event "WCCC32CT03"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2013.09.08"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Williamson, Harvey D."]
[Black "Hamarat, Tunc"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C11"]
[WhiteElo "2491"]
[BlackElo "2604"]
[Annotator "Anand"]
[PlyCount "87"]
[EventDate "2012.09.20"]
[EventType "corr"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 Be7 8. dxc5
O-O 9. Qd2 Bxc5 10. O-O-O Qa5 11. a3 a6 12. Bxc5 Qxc5 (12... Nxc5 13. Qe3 {
Leko-Wang 2013}) 13. Bd3 Re8 (13... b5 14. Bxh7+ $1 {is a nice trap}) (13... f6
{given how the game goes, perhaps Black should do this}) 14. Ne2 b5 15. Ned4
Rb8 16. c3 Nxd4 17. Nxd4 Qb6 (17... b4 18. axb4 Rxb4 19. Bxh7+ $1) 18. b4 {The
key move. Kills any counterplay Black may have had} Qc7 19. Bc2 Nf8 20. h4 {
the rest is almost clinical} a5 21. h5 Bd7 22. Rh3 axb4 23. cxb4 {now the c
file is added to Black's list of problems} Rec8 24. Qf2 Be8 25. Kb1 Ra8 26. Qh4
Ra6 27. Kb2 Nd7 28. h6 (28. Rg3 {is easier}) 28... g6 29. Bb3 Rb6 30. Re3 Qd8
31. Qg3 (31. Qxd8 Rxd8 32. Rc3 {should also win}) 31... Nf8 32. f5 Bd7 33. fxg6
Nxg6 34. Bc2 Qe7 35. Rf1 Be8 36. Bxg6 hxg6 37. h7+ Kh8 38. Qf4 Qf8 39. Rh3 Qg7
40. Qg5 Rb7 41. Rc1 Ra8 42. Rhc3 Rba7 43. Rc8 Rxa3 44. Rxe8+ {After move 18,
Black couldnt do anything. Perhaps the whole line after 13...Re8 is unplayable?
} 1-0

Really amazing that ICCF allows computers ; there are Correspondence websites such as Gameknot that strictly forbid it ....So in every ICCF game the real Question is what part is Human and what part is Computer ....this is not legitimate chess IMHO ....Logically speaking there is a problem here because the use of Computers is not allowed over the board ....it should be all computers or no computers in all forms of Chess from blitz to correspondence ...So what are ICCF games someone's houdini playing against another person's Stockfish ??? This is not Chess!!!!

[Watchman]

...So what are ICCF games someone's houdini playing against another person's Stockfish ??? This is not Chess!!!!

It's not this simple.

More like Freestyle @ Chessbase over a period of days rather than a couple hours.

[RadioSmall]

...So what are ICCF games someone's houdini playing against another person's Stockfish ??? This is not Chess!!!!

It's not this simple.

More like Freestyle @ Chessbase over a period of days rather than a couple hours.

What is left of FreeStyle chess in 2013 when programs are above 3200 Elo?? Any kind of Human intervention in the game will lower the quality.Looks like all humans do is to choose openings lines in the games ..... ICCF would have had more world respect if it had disallowed the use of Computers...................

[Harvey Williamson]

What is left of FreeStyle chess in 2013 when programs are above 3200 Elo?? Any kind of Human intervention in the game will lower the quality.Looks like all humans do is to choose openings lines in the games ..... ICCF would have had more world respect if it had disallowed the use of Computers...................

Tactically engines are certainly 3200+. Positionally they are still weaker than any human GM. There are still positions in a game where computers get it wrong and humans get it right. So a strong human with computer help, a Centaur, is a very strong entity.

The problem with a no computer rule is how do you enforce it?

[RadioSmall]

What is left of FreeStyle chess in 2013 when programs are above 3200 Elo?? Any kind of Human intervention in the game will lower the quality.Looks like all humans do is to choose openings lines in the games ..... ICCF would have had more world respect if it had disallowed the use of Computers...................

Tactically engines are certainly 3200+. Positionally they are still weaker than any human GM. There are still positions in a game where computers get it wrong and humans get it right. So a strong human with computer help, a Centaur, is a very strong entity.

The problem with a no computer rule is how do you enforce it?

What you say is very amazing for 2013 .For example Deep Hiarcs 14 is over 3200 SSDF Elo; this is not 3200 tactical Elo but 3200 Real Elo. The computers have passed the tactical threshold a long time ago ; for example Chess genius on a mere Pentium 100 MHZ beat Kasparov in a 25 minute game in 1994 ...Furthermore I have run hundreds of Human GM games through programs and I yet have to see a "positional move " a human can come up with , which a top program cannot....As far as enforcing the no computer rule ....it is not that hard, a lot of internet correspondence websites do it; it is no secret..... In fact I know of a correspondence website that catches hundreds of people per month for computer cheating.....................

[Harvey Williamson]

What is left of FreeStyle chess in 2013 when programs are above 3200 Elo?? Any kind of Human intervention in the game will lower the quality.Looks like all humans do is to choose openings lines in the games ..... ICCF would have had more world respect if it had disallowed the use of Computers...................

Tactically engines are certainly 3200+. Positionally they are still weaker than any human GM. There are still positions in a game where computers get it wrong and humans get it right. So a strong human with computer help, a Centaur, is a very strong entity.

The problem with a no computer rule is how do you enforce it?

I have sat in a room full of 2600+ GM's analysing games at the london Classic. For most moves the computers will find the same move they do or better ones. However on 2 or 3 moves in most games the GM's will say that computer move is a load of rubbish and usually they are proved right. GM's won't beat the comps because they will make a mistake somewhere but a strong player combined with a computer is a very strong chess playing entity.

[martinus]

I have sat in a room full of 2600+ GM's analysing games at the london Classic. For most moves the computers will find the same move they do or better ones. However on 2 or 3 moves in most games the GM's will say that computer move is a load of rubbish and usually they are proved right. GM's won't beat the comps because they will make a mistake somewhere but a strong player combined with a computer is a very strong chess playing entity.

With all the respect for Harvey Williamson and a room full of 2600+ GM's, I would love to see some of those "rubbish" moves.