Repeat performance issues with dedicated units?
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- Cyberchess
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Repeat performance issues with dedicated units?
Greetings fellow schachcomputer enthusiasts!
While I don’t play against dedicated units much these days, I recall how when I did, I often found myself caught up in the repeat performance dilemma. Since, unlike us humans, computers will walk down the same dark alley and get mugged over and over again, it was often necessary to take steps to prevent this from happening repeatedly. This posed a perplexing problem when rehearsing my intended opening lines for tournament play against humans: I used to play practice games with the computer to check for hidden tactics, etc., but once a winning line was found, even if based on inaccurate play, it became necessary to scrap the preferred line and play an alternative. This situation is probably a good way to improve one’s chess in general, as it requires the player to fend for oneself in a wider variety of positions, each with their own particular nuances, tactical possibilities, etc., but isn’t particularly of much use when preparing specific lines for tournaments. Many times I was forced to lookup the correct continuation in MCO and use the Novag’s user programmable opening book to augment the included ROM book. Of course, not all dedicated chess computers have this feature, requiring that the user program the start position in by hand. The user programmable book, on the other hand, was susceptible to corruption due to static charge buildup, and would often require that the contents be purged and everything had to be re-programmed (a drag). This hasn’t been an issue with chess playing software these days, as the opening book size is for all practical purposes unlimited. In the PC, smartphone, Rev II and tablet world, changing opening books is easier than changing one’s socks, so the only real issue is how the computer handles the resulting middle and endgames.
So, getting back to the topic of this post: how do you handle this dilemma with your traditional dedicated units?
Regards,
John
While I don’t play against dedicated units much these days, I recall how when I did, I often found myself caught up in the repeat performance dilemma. Since, unlike us humans, computers will walk down the same dark alley and get mugged over and over again, it was often necessary to take steps to prevent this from happening repeatedly. This posed a perplexing problem when rehearsing my intended opening lines for tournament play against humans: I used to play practice games with the computer to check for hidden tactics, etc., but once a winning line was found, even if based on inaccurate play, it became necessary to scrap the preferred line and play an alternative. This situation is probably a good way to improve one’s chess in general, as it requires the player to fend for oneself in a wider variety of positions, each with their own particular nuances, tactical possibilities, etc., but isn’t particularly of much use when preparing specific lines for tournaments. Many times I was forced to lookup the correct continuation in MCO and use the Novag’s user programmable opening book to augment the included ROM book. Of course, not all dedicated chess computers have this feature, requiring that the user program the start position in by hand. The user programmable book, on the other hand, was susceptible to corruption due to static charge buildup, and would often require that the contents be purged and everything had to be re-programmed (a drag). This hasn’t been an issue with chess playing software these days, as the opening book size is for all practical purposes unlimited. In the PC, smartphone, Rev II and tablet world, changing opening books is easier than changing one’s socks, so the only real issue is how the computer handles the resulting middle and endgames.
So, getting back to the topic of this post: how do you handle this dilemma with your traditional dedicated units?
Regards,
John
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Re: Repeat performance issues with dedicated units?
Well JohnCyberchess wrote:So, getting back to the topic of this post: how do you handle this dilemma with your traditional dedicated units?
Regards,
John
this is where having a decent sized collection can really pay handsome dividends
once you start to get into the same ol ..same ol...with any particular unit
you just box it up...pack it away...
and pull another one off the shelf
by the time you cycle back to the first computer..you don't even remember
what lines it will /will not repeat
Continuous Loop Regards
Steve
- Cyberchess
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Re: Repeat performance issues with dedicated units?
Greetings Steve!Steve B wrote:Well JohnCyberchess wrote:So, getting back to the topic of this post: how do you handle this dilemma with your traditional dedicated units?
Regards,
John
this is where having a decent sized collection can really pay handsome dividends
once you start to get into the same ol ..same ol...with any particular unit
you just box it up...pack it away...
and pull another one off the shelf
by the time you cycle back to the first computer..you don't even remember
what lines it will /will not repeat
Continuous Loop Regards
Steve
Owning close to 600 dedicated units certainly has its advantages. Once one becomes well acquainted with the dedicated unit’s opening preferences and style, the machine’s effective rating does drop considerably. Upon game conclusion, the human has every right to consult opening references, PC programs, and seek advice from sage-like human consultants, while the traditional dedicated unit remains a known quantity.
While I’ve never owned more than about 7 dedicated units at the same time (some were vintage units purchased for resale only), I did manage to procure quite a few long out of production Cyberchess program packs over the years. I like to leave a game in progress sitting on a table and allow the bout to ensue for weeks to several months per game. Afterwards, I sometimes review the game with the included analysis modules, though will have long forgotten the game before playing through half of my supply. By the time that I get around to replaying the game, it’s like seeing it for the first time. Sometimes it’s fun to make the same blunders over and over again.
Rotation Is Key Regards,
John
- Steve B
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Re: Repeat performance issues with dedicated units?
Cyber Chess...now that really is reelin in the yearsCyberchess wrote:
I did manage to procure quite a few long out of production Cyberchess program packs over the years.n
so thats where you got your nickname from?
CyC came out the same year that the first dedicated chess computer did(1977)
i think this hastened its short lived commercial success
actually i liked the concept and still have mine
dont recall how many game packets i have
Rotary Club Regards
Steve
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Re: Repeat performance issues with dedicated units?
Yes! You are absolutely correct on all 3 counts. Life can be so unfair sometimes. If only Cyberchess by Cyber Enterprises had been produced a couple of years earlier, it would have been a raving commercial success. They actually did try to keep up with the times and successfully converted the system to the early Apple PC platform, but by then they were severely overshadowed by the emerging PC chess playing software and the ever improving dedicated units. We were too flabbergasted by the realization of a computer chess opponent we could enjoy at home (myself included) to give Cyberchess a fair trial.Steve B wrote:Cyber Chess...now that really is reelin in the yearsCyberchess wrote:
I did manage to procure quite a few long out of production Cyberchess program packs over the years.n
so thats where you got your nickname from?
CyC came out the same year that the first dedicated chess computer did(1977)
i think this hastened its short lived commercial success
actually i liked the concept and still have mine
dont recall how many game packets i have
Rotary Club Regards
Steve
I actually discovered this forum while trying to describe Cyberchess to a former colleague. I ran a Google search, found little on Cyberchess, though the forum came up because someone had started a thread that included non-electronic chess devices. Gallant Knight published something remotely similar although not nearly as interesting, and geared specifically for beginners.
I actually own 2 complete units because I needed to purchase the second in order to obtain several additional program packs to add to my collection. According to their sales literature, they also produced specialty endgame program packs, though I don’t currently own any of these.
Horse and Buggy Chess Forever Regards,
John
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Re: Repeat performance issues with dedicated units?
interesting stuffCyberchess wrote:
They actually did try to keep up with the times and successfully converted the system to the early Apple PC platform,
i didnt know that
thanks John
you re-kindled my interest in CYC so i did an inventory of my game packets:
1)PROGRAM PACKET-CHESS TEST
4 game cards
chess test A GAMES 1A and 1B
Chess Test B games 2A and 2B
2)PROGRAM PACKET-STANDARD
4 GAME CARDS
OPENING:
2 game cards -Queens Gambit Accepted
RETI
Ruy Lopez
3)PROGRAM PACKET-PROFESSIONAL-001
4 game cards
opening:
Philodor's DEFENSE
Ruy Lopez
Larson
Evan's Gambit
4)PROGRAM PACKET-AMATEUR-001
4 game cards
opening:
Centre Counter
French
Sicilian
Queens Gambit Declined
SO only 4 packets(16 games) in total
can you estimate how many packets(games) you have?
CyberSearch Regards
Steve
- Cyberchess
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Greetings Steve!
Glad to hear that you have a re-kindled interest in this antiquated game system. The only place that seems to have the Apple PC game files, executable, etc. is on bit torrent which I don’t really care for as they allow illegal copying of copyrighted material. That said, I’m sure that the copyright has long expired on Cyberchess, as the Cyber Enterprises company is long defunct. It would be a nice project if someone were to decompile the executable, port it over to Windows for use with the old binary data files (game packs). Presumably they also converted all the old analysis texts that accompany the modules, but locating these would likely prove difficult at this late date. I have, however, seen screen shots of the system up and running in Apple DOS and it looks well suited to that environment.
Until such a time, the really nice thing about the system is that you can leave it set up forever – without ever worrying about burning out a transformer, etc. I used to leave a clear plastic cover over the Cyberator so as not to allow it to get dusty. Often times I would be too busy to continue my game in progress, forget all about it until one day I would notice that my custom chessboard seated beside it was covered in dust. I own about 20 program packs, with 9 of them being Pro Modules. The Pro Modules are particularly difficult to find, and this is why I needed to purchase a second Cyberator unit in order to obtain more.
It sounds like you own the comlete Cyberchess package but you don’t mention if you have the accompanying analysis texts that go with the modules (Program Packs). Of course, you don’t really need those to enjoy Cyberchess, though sometimes it’s nice to check the annotations afterwards.
Cyber Census Regards,
John
Glad to hear that you have a re-kindled interest in this antiquated game system. The only place that seems to have the Apple PC game files, executable, etc. is on bit torrent which I don’t really care for as they allow illegal copying of copyrighted material. That said, I’m sure that the copyright has long expired on Cyberchess, as the Cyber Enterprises company is long defunct. It would be a nice project if someone were to decompile the executable, port it over to Windows for use with the old binary data files (game packs). Presumably they also converted all the old analysis texts that accompany the modules, but locating these would likely prove difficult at this late date. I have, however, seen screen shots of the system up and running in Apple DOS and it looks well suited to that environment.
Until such a time, the really nice thing about the system is that you can leave it set up forever – without ever worrying about burning out a transformer, etc. I used to leave a clear plastic cover over the Cyberator so as not to allow it to get dusty. Often times I would be too busy to continue my game in progress, forget all about it until one day I would notice that my custom chessboard seated beside it was covered in dust. I own about 20 program packs, with 9 of them being Pro Modules. The Pro Modules are particularly difficult to find, and this is why I needed to purchase a second Cyberator unit in order to obtain more.
It sounds like you own the comlete Cyberchess package but you don’t mention if you have the accompanying analysis texts that go with the modules (Program Packs). Of course, you don’t really need those to enjoy Cyberchess, though sometimes it’s nice to check the annotations afterwards.
Cyber Census Regards,
John
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Okay, I was multitasking earlier and neglected to point out key details:
If you still have your analysis texts, they should be one in each envelope containing the modules (program packs).
I purchased my first starter set back when e-bay became a popular venue (circa 1998). I shortly thereafter purchased a second set containing more and different modules. I’m now starting to think that along with the initial purchase the buyer had a choice of the included 4 modules. This would explain why people were often selling the set with one or more of the 4 modules being different than those of other sets.
Around the Y2K period someone from California was auctioning the comprehensive set shy only a handful of modules. He started the auction at a rather high $600, though, to my astonishment, the modules numbered in the hundreds. Obviously Cyber Enterprises had high aspirations for this product and invested heavily in the creation of all these well thought out modules and texts. Doubtful that anyone would plunk down his opening bid price, I sent him a message offering to purchase some or all of the Pro Modules that I wanted more of. He flatly rebuked my offer, stating that he had no intention of breaking up the set, and seemed taken aback at my suggesting he do so. Predictably, no one met his opening bid price; he never relisted any or all of these, and never reconsidered my offer to buy some of them.
Every now and then someone auctions a complete or partial starter set on e-bay. A complete starter set should contain a Cyberator, 4 modules, corresponding analysis texts, instructions, order forms, advertising literature and some letters of endorsement. All of these items should be packed in a shallow non-descript cardboard box.
Cyber Reflections Regards,
John
If you still have your analysis texts, they should be one in each envelope containing the modules (program packs).
I purchased my first starter set back when e-bay became a popular venue (circa 1998). I shortly thereafter purchased a second set containing more and different modules. I’m now starting to think that along with the initial purchase the buyer had a choice of the included 4 modules. This would explain why people were often selling the set with one or more of the 4 modules being different than those of other sets.
Around the Y2K period someone from California was auctioning the comprehensive set shy only a handful of modules. He started the auction at a rather high $600, though, to my astonishment, the modules numbered in the hundreds. Obviously Cyber Enterprises had high aspirations for this product and invested heavily in the creation of all these well thought out modules and texts. Doubtful that anyone would plunk down his opening bid price, I sent him a message offering to purchase some or all of the Pro Modules that I wanted more of. He flatly rebuked my offer, stating that he had no intention of breaking up the set, and seemed taken aback at my suggesting he do so. Predictably, no one met his opening bid price; he never relisted any or all of these, and never reconsidered my offer to buy some of them.
Every now and then someone auctions a complete or partial starter set on e-bay. A complete starter set should contain a Cyberator, 4 modules, corresponding analysis texts, instructions, order forms, advertising literature and some letters of endorsement. All of these items should be packed in a shallow non-descript cardboard box.
Cyber Reflections Regards,
John
- Steve B
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Thanks John for the estimateCyberchess wrote: I own about 20 program packs, with 9 of them being Pro Modules.
very nice collection
yes I do own all of the accompanying text sheets and instructions etc etc
I have their product list which does show many program packets for sale but I never thought they actually produced them all
it might be an interesting exercise to put a couple of the old dedicated computers to the test to see how high they score in a few of the games
I guess ill keep an eye open on Ebay to see if I can pick up some more game packets
Cyber 70's Regards
Steve
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Its a Paper simulationifekali wrote:Would any of you two guys care to post a video of this thing in operation? For the life of me, I am unable to figure out how this works ...
I'm quite sure I'm not the only one ...
-Izmet
no electronics involved
you insert the game cards into the main unit and turn the attached dial which reveals moves pre-printed on the card
here is a photo of mine:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@ ... 0922175252
here are some game card packets:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@ ... 922175252/
John can probably describe it better then i can
CyberMania Regards
Steve
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@ Maurice:
Great website! One of the first A.I. psychiatric diagnosis and behavioral science tools (Ad-Infer). What would B.F. Skinner think about that? We’ll either be positively or negatively reinforced for choosing the correct or incorrect move while playing Cyberchess. Thanks to your excellent coverage of said, I now realize that it was actually ported over to the Tandy platform – not the Apple platform as I had mistakenly asserted earlier. Chalk it up to time and memory.
@ Steve:
Excellent idea! I’m interested to see how some of the higher end dedicated units fare on the Pro Module set @ level 4.
Obtaining additional Pro modules will likely be a real challenge these days, but it never hurts to run a search for them periodically. I’ve all but given up hope at this point.
@ Izmet:
Things are a bit hectic right now as far as recording a video is concerned, but I’ll do my best to answer any questions you may have.
Amassing a Cyber Army Regards,
John
Great website! One of the first A.I. psychiatric diagnosis and behavioral science tools (Ad-Infer). What would B.F. Skinner think about that? We’ll either be positively or negatively reinforced for choosing the correct or incorrect move while playing Cyberchess. Thanks to your excellent coverage of said, I now realize that it was actually ported over to the Tandy platform – not the Apple platform as I had mistakenly asserted earlier. Chalk it up to time and memory.
@ Steve:
Excellent idea! I’m interested to see how some of the higher end dedicated units fare on the Pro Module set @ level 4.
Obtaining additional Pro modules will likely be a real challenge these days, but it never hurts to run a search for them periodically. I’ve all but given up hope at this point.
@ Izmet:
Things are a bit hectic right now as far as recording a video is concerned, but I’ll do my best to answer any questions you may have.
Amassing a Cyber Army Regards,
John
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Okay, apparently there actually was also an Apple II port back in 1982. I guess my memory isn’t so bad after all:
http://tanrunomad.com/vintage-computer- ... -ii-games/
Maurice, you may wish to update your Chess-Eval entry accordingly.
Cylon Attack Imminent Regards,
John
http://tanrunomad.com/vintage-computer- ... -ii-games/
Maurice, you may wish to update your Chess-Eval entry accordingly.
Cylon Attack Imminent Regards,
John
- fourthirty
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+1. I finally (just now) realized that the Apple II program is an emulation of the paper based game. Boy have I been confused!ifekali wrote:Would any of you two guys care to post a video of this thing in operation? For the life of me, I am unable to figure out how this works ...
I'm quite sure I'm not the only one ...
-Izmet
I would also like to see a video of how the original (paper) Rube Goldberg looking contraption works.
Wheel - Of - CyberChess Regards...