Excalibur King Arthur Revisited

[Steve B]

Therefore Nelson writing a program from scratch while at the same time working on Product Design, selling, advertising, marketing, payroll, HR, Purchasing etc etc seems to me a long stretch. When Excalibur was started you can bet on it that it was staffed to the barest minimum so everyone working there was multifunctional in what they had to do to get it off the ground and keep it going forward.

Hi Nick
not sure where you get the idea that Nelson was involved with selling,adverstising,marketing payroll ...etc,...etc
whether or not this was the case during the very beginning of the Company's existence (when they sold cloned computers) I cannot say..but its not really relevant to the discussion of the later Excalibur's


what I can say is that From the late 90's onward this was clearly not the case
during those years i would call the Co. directly to place an order
a receptionist would pick up the phone,connect me to a sales person(over the years I recall speaking to at least 1/2 a dozen different sales persons) and if I had an issue with an order I spoke to someone else(in shipping)
I know when I was in contact with him(around 2001 ) he certainly seemed to be involved heavily in programming..
I recall and have posted before in another thread that I noticed a bug in the LCD chess computer when it was first released ..it would not promote to a Knight
when I alerted the Company to this fact I was surprised to get a response back from Nelson Himself..he complained that "Marketing" had rushed him to get the computer out fast and he fixed the bug in later releases

My guess is that at the time the later Excalibur computers were released (say from 1997 onward)Nelson was totally free to work on programming all of the time


Not A One Man Operation Regards
Steve

[Fluppio]

I recall and have posted before in another thread that I noticed a bug in the LCD chess computer when it was first released ..it would not promote to a Knight
when I alerted the Company to this fact I was surprised to get a response back from Nelson Himself..he complained that "Marketing" had rushed him to get the computer out fast and he fixed the bug in later releases

My guess is that at the time the later Excalibur computers were released (say from 1997 onward)Nelson was totally free to work on programming

Not A One Man Operation Regards
Steve

Hi Steve, so it seems he was fully integrated in the programming process - no matter if he was programming all alone or with a team.

One Point is actually not mentioned in the discussion: We all now the nowadays PC progs which are often clones from fruit and sometimes even better than the original. As Excalibur has enough contracts with other programmers for their chess computers, it could be possible that THEY (Nelson or someone else) changed a lot in the original code and made something new out of it. My few tests with the Igor and the Krypton Regency (Horvath) show a clear difference in playing style and the moves. So, actually I'm not convinced in this theory, but as mentioned above - not impossible.

Of course it's possible too that Nelson created a totally new program for the H8 processor.

Will we ever know it?

[Steve B]

Hi Steve, so it seems he was fully integrated in the programming process - no matter if he was programming all alone or with a team.

Of course it's possible too that Nelson created a totally new program for the H8 processor.

Will we ever know it?

Hi Peter
yes it seems clear to me he was heavily involved with programming
but then again you would have to believe that what I posted was in fact true and I am not making it up
some choose to question my first hand accounts of that time and I have no issues with that..I simply post the facts as they happened at that time and I leave it to others to take from that what they will

will we ever know the truth ?
well I did try contacting Nelson when we last had this debate
I used the last email addy I had for him
he never replied but strangely the email did not bounce back to me which indicates the addy is still active

Theres is always Hope Regards
Steve

[spacious_mind]

Hi Nick
not sure where you get the idea that Nelson was involved with selling,adverstising,marketing payroll ...etc,...etc
whether or not this was the case during the very beginning of the Company's existence (when they sold cloned computers) I cannot say..but its not really relevant to the discussion of the later Excalibur's


Not A One Man Operation Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

Yes it does matter. The man was director of a company. Which means he directed. In a small company you have to do a bit of all I wrote because you don't have the employees. In a large company you have to manage your team. You are a manager and not a doer. So in both cases the programmer theory does not work. It never has done unless you tell me now that Nelson was employed as a programmer and not as a director.

The response that you are discussing with Peter is a production director's response. It also tells me that there was a total lack of quality control and blame pushing to some other area of the organization. Which if you were to be honest about it shows a lack of professionalism by pushing the blame on to someone else in front of a customer (you).

Being a production director means that you are responsible for the end product and accountable for it. It does not mean that you created every piece of it yourself by hand. But this is what we are stating here. Nelson did it all!

Best regards

[spacious_mind]

My guess is that at the time the later Excalibur computers were released (say from 1997 onward)Nelson was totally free to work on programming all of the time


Not A One Man Operation Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

1997 would not work. Ivan came out in 1996 therefore for the Nelson theory to work Ivan would have to be considered as the first in order for the argument to work that Igor and GM are Nelsons program.

I recall and have posted before in another thread that I noticed a bug in the LCD chess computer when it was first released ..it would not promote to a Knight when I alerted the Company to this fact I was surprised to get a response back from Nelson Himself..he complained that "Marketing" had rushed him to get the computer out fast and he fixed the bug in later releases.

I don't know which LCD Chess you are referring to, but LCD was also sold by Lexibook under their name:

http://www.spacious-mind.com/html/lcd_c ... chess.html

So it is hard to say with conviction that this was designed by Excalibur. Both companies show them as made in China. But I would doubt it as a Nelson created program or computer.

E-Chess does not work, You have E-Chess with Commodoor, Excalibur and RadioShack (under their own Brand) as well as under Excalibur Brand. Therefore it is probably also not a unique Excalibur. Rather a Made in China.

Touch Chess also does not work. Novag and Excalibur sold them.

The computers that had the FH030 setting? Maybe... but then again talking from Memory I have a Pavillion Chessman Pro II (which has to originate from Lexibook) that also plays identical with FH030 settings etc. Made in China or Excalibur?

Sorry but the more I dig the more I end up refuting more and more. In the end if you end up with only the Ivan program then you really have to question if it was Nelson, then why Nelson's program was only used in 3 or 4 out of 70+ computers? If that is the case then you also question did he really program Ivan?

Especially when there are no facts to substantiate anything.

Regards,

Nick

[Steve B]

1997 would not work. Ivan came out in 1996 therefore for the Nelson theory to work Ivan would have to be considered as the first in order for the argument to work that Igor and GM are Nelsons program.

Hi Nick

OK 1996..close enough to 1997 i would say

I don't know which LCD Chess you are referring to, but LCD was also sold by Lexibook under their name:

http://www.spacious-mind.com/html/lcd_c ... chess.html

Excalibur model 375

So it is hard to say with conviction that this was designed by Excalibur. Both companies show them as made in China. But I would doubt it as a Nelson created program or computer.

clear to me he was the programmer as he corrected the bug once i pointed it out..as i have mentioned numerous times now
that coupled with the fact that Nelson said he was the programmer for all Excalibur computers (again this was around 2001) leaves the issue of whether or not he was heavily involved in programing a moot point in my mind

Especially when there are no facts to substantiate anything.

no facts other then those i have recounted from personal experience
as i said earlier you can choose to not believe these facts or you are free to interpret them in any way you see fit
i have recounted how Excalibur was far from a one man operation (by the late 1990's ) when i ordered directly from them with a Sales Dept .Shipping Dept.Marketing Dept etc..etc and how Nelson contacted me only when it came to the programming issue ..complaining about the pressure from the Marketing Dept because they wanted the computer out the door ..and yet ..somehow.. you took away from that the conclusion that Nelson as a programmer ..is a theory that does not work
programmers complaining about pressure from the marketing dept. is a common complaint from programmers
a famous example of this is when the Spracklens came out with the programming for the EAG V5
you can read their complaints here at the bottom of the page taken from the V5 addendum that they wrote and signed

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@ ... 922170604/

anyway your conclusion ..from these facts is a bit confusing to me but a clear exercise of your freedom to interpret facts in any way you see fit
you can have the last word as this thread is ending up in the same exact place as the last one

A Happy Thanksgiving To You And Yours

Let Freedom Ring Regards
Steve

[spacious_mind]

1997 would not work. Ivan came out in 1996 therefore for the Nelson theory to work Ivan would have to be considered as the first in order for the argument to work that Igor and GM are Nelsons program.

Hi Nick

OK 1996..close enough to 1997 i would say

I don't know which LCD Chess you are referring to, but LCD was also sold by Lexibook under their name:

http://www.spacious-mind.com/html/lcd_c ... chess.html

Excalibur model 375

So it is hard to say with conviction that this was designed by Excalibur. Both companies show them as made in China. But I would doubt it as a Nelson created program or computer.

clear to me he was the programmer as he corrected the bug once i pointed it out..as i have mentioned numerous times now
that coupled with the fact that Nelson said he was the programmer for all Excalibur computers (again this was around 2001) leaves the issue of whether or not he was heavily involved in programing a moot point in my mind

Especially when there are no facts to substantiate anything.

no facts other then those i have recounted from personal experience
as i said earlier you can choose to not believe these facts or you are free to interpret them in any way you see fit
i have recounted how Excalibur was far from a one man operation (by the late 1990's ) when i ordered directly from them with a Sales Dept .Shipping Dept.Marketing Dept etc..etc and how Nelson contacted me only when it came to the programming issue ..complaining about the pressure from the Marketing Dept because they wanted the computer out the door ..and yet ..somehow.. you took away from that the conclusion that Nelson as a programmer ..is a theory that does not work
programmers complaining about pressure from the marketing dept. is a common complaint from programmers
a famous example of this is when the Spracklens came out with the programming for the EAG V5
you can read their complaints here at the bottom of the page taken from the V5 addendum that they wrote and signed

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@ ... 922170604/

anyway your conclusion ..from these facts is a bit confusing to me but a clear exercise of your freedom to interpret facts in any way you see fit
you can have the last word as this thread is ending up in the same exact place as the last one

A Happy Thanksgiving To You And Yours

Let Freedom Ring Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

Good morning, and happy Thanksgiving to you as well. (Although I still have to work today )

I agree programmers complaining is not uncommon Spracklen's account is not the same situation.

The not acceptable piece is a Director (a leader of his company) complaining to a customer about another department. Especially when the Buck should stop with him. There is a difference Besides Model 375 Made in China or Made in Miami?

ps... Ya'all don't take diversity of opinion as something to get mad about, it is what makes the world more interesting and alive.

Regards,

[Monsieur Plastique]

clear to me he was the programmer as he corrected the bug once i pointed it out..as i have mentioned numerous times now
that coupled with the fact that Nelson said he was the programmer for all Excalibur computers (again this was around 2001) leaves the issue of whether or not he was heavily involved in programing a moot point in my mind

And although I have not had any personal communications with Ron Nelson I was in close contact with one of the people who tested pre-production units. The situation was as you described - they were in direct contact with Ron Nelson throughout the pre-production process.

There was also something you've mentioned here a few times previously - the fact that the Alexandra / DTCC units lost the pondering function was a product of Ron Nelson apparently not getting around to activating it on those last generation units.

This is also consistent with the fact that I found a few bugs with those last generation units that were not fixed although I reported them - I think by this time (which would have been around 2008 / 9 I suppose), I am assuming that things were winding down on the product development front. From what I have seen, there were never any more up to date Excaliburs after the programs found in Phantom Force, Alexandra and DTTC (all of which were exactly the same).

Even the cheaper units you can still buy seem to be the same thing, albeit clocked at lower speeds (usually around half the speed of hose other three).

There is a difference Besides Model 375 Made in China or Made in Miami?

Of what relevance is the fact that Excalibur units were made in China? So were Novags, Saiteks, the lot!

[Steve B]

Hi Steve,

Good morning, and happy Thanksgiving to you as well. (Although I still have to work today )



ps... Ya'all don't take diversity of opinion as something to get mad about, it is what makes the world more interesting and alive.

Regards,

And here we agree 100%!
Best Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

And although I have not had any personal communications with Ron Nelson I was in close contact with one of the people who tested pre-production units. The situation was as you described - they were in direct contact with Ron Nelson throughout the pre-production process.

There was also something you've mentioned here a few times previously - the fact that the Alexandra / DTCC units lost the pondering function was a product of Ron Nelson apparently not getting around to activating it on those last generation units.

This is also consistent with the fact that I found a few bugs with those last generation units that were not fixed although I reported them

Thanks Jon
its good to have some independent verification of some of the comments and statements i have made

Even though you folks"Down Under" dont celebrate it ,i wish you,Cameron and the rest of your family a Happy And Healthy Thanksgiving as well



Turkey and Stuffings From Oz
Regards
Steve

[Monsieur Plastique]

Thank you. Well, I can always go down to the store and buy a sausage roll or two Then perhaps play a game against my Gameboy Colour or the little appreciated and seemingly rare Saitek Bullet.

[spacious_mind]

There is a difference Besides Model 375 Made in China or Made in Miami?

Of what relevance is the fact that Excalibur units were made in China? So were Novags, Saiteks, the lot!

Let me ask you, how many Model 375, 375-1, 375-2 and 375-V do you have? How many of them are fully functional? Those were made and sold over a period of about 4 years. You would imagine during the version changes over a 4 year period they would be fixed right? 4 years is plenty of time to do that, don't you think?

Ron Nelson had no influence on these, and if he did his quality control was atrocious. You do know that every one of the above fails after 1 or 2 battery changes? 4 years to fix a problem!! Pixilation failure.

So Made in China does matter right?

I have bought at least 20 of these over the last few years just so that I can have 1 working of each of the above. BTW the Lexibook has the exact same problems. Made in China?

How many of you have the first New York Times? Are they all working? How about the Chess Station are the pixels still working?

Plenty of years to fix a recurring problem.

Let's all blame it on Marketing regards.

[SirDave]

I didn't know Ron Nelson, but I did know his parents, Ozzie and Harriet. Oh no, I'm thinking of Rick Nelson... .

(Sorry, just a little Thanksgiving levity.)