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mclane
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Post by mclane »

Tuning the old machines Steve talks about is very difficult and a sacrileg.

But the later h8 machines...

They are cheap plastic China ware, some even don't have real LEDs ....

:wink:
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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Fernando
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Post by Fernando »

mclane wrote:Tuning the old machines Steve talks about is very difficult and a sacrileg.

But the later h8 machines...
well, that could be a serious issue for a discussion in the First Encounter of Dedicated Chess Units Fans to be celebrated in NY next year, with the Elders, CNN covering the news, Scarlett Johansen as maitre de ceremonies, the Spracklen couple, Langs, schroeder, etc.
Even Blincoe will assist on his wheelchair.

Fern
Festina Lente
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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

It might be a progression you go through. It was with me. When I first started collecting I wanted them all, tuned, untuned, faster Langs, faster Morsch's etc.

But then once you have them and played and studied their history enough, you finally realize that it makes little sense at the end of the day. As Steve a wise man already mentioned, they were not meant to be changed.

After all if you want to see a Morsch for example play at 20 MHz instead of its 10 MHz, then just play it at 1 minute instead of 30 seconds per move, you get the exact same strength by doing that. Of course playing them against other computers is maybe not the same since the other computer also now gets to ponder for 60 seconds as well. But that is the only difference at the end of the day. However, if that other computer has a save function then just turn it off after 30 seconds of pondering and things become the same again. There is nothing magical about a tuned computer other than it's LCD display is likely to break down faster than a normal computer.

Anyway finally I realized after also seeing less and less H8 computers posted on Ebay that these also should be looked after as they will someday also become scarce. It is just a matter of time.

Chess really does not stop with dedicateds and re-engineering an old dedicated program.

You can follow pretty much every dedicated programmer in their progression from dedicated to home computers, to pc's, to palm pilots/pocket pc's and now there exists a new generation of dedicated computers where a huge amount of new programmers and their programs can be played, even against dedicated computers if you wanted to compare present to past.

So at the end of the day what is the point of reengineering a dedicated program over and over again. Once you have done it a few times you will probably ask yourself that exact same question. Trust me in this.

I do give credit however for Steve UK who has the technical knowledge to resurrect dead computers, where boundaries do get fuzzy is when you resurrect a fully functioning computer into something it wasn't meant to be. It's like copying a Mona Lisa and pretending it is an original. It isn't.

But I think everyone at the end of the day every one can make their own choice of what they want to do.

The world goes on and 99.99% of the world don't even know what the heck we are talking about anyway.

But what ever the arguments are for tuning and software simulations are, don't make them moral arguments because those they are definitely not.

Best regards
Nick
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Fernando
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Post by Fernando »

spacious_mind wrote:It might be a progression you go through. It was with me. When I first started collecting I wanted them all, tuned, untuned, faster Langs, faster Morsch's etc.

But then once you have them and played and studied their history enough, you finally realize that it makes little sense at the end of the day. As Steve a wise man already mentioned, they were not meant to be changed.

After all if you want to see a Morsch for example play at 20 MHz instead of its 10 MHz, then just play it at 1 minute instead of 30 seconds per move, you get the exact same strength by doing that. Of course playing them against other computers is maybe not the same since the other computer also now gets to ponder for 60 seconds as well. But that is the only difference at the end of the day. However, if that other computer has a save function then just turn it off after 30 seconds of pondering and things become the same again. There is nothing magical about a tuned computer other than it's LCD display is likely to break down faster than a normal computer.

Anyway finally I realized after also seeing less and less H8 computers posted on Ebay that these also should be looked after as they will someday also become scarce. It is just a matter of time.

Chess really does not stop with dedicateds and re-engineering an old dedicated program.

You can follow pretty much every dedicated programmer in their progression from dedicated to home computers, to pc's, to palm pilots/pocket pc's and now there exists a new generation of dedicated computers where a huge amount of new programmers and their programs can be played, even against dedicated computers if you wanted to compare present to past.

So at the end of the day what is the point of reengineering a dedicated program over and over again. Once you have done it a few times you will probably ask yourself that exact same question. Trust me in this.

I do give credit however for Steve UK who has the technical knowledge to resurrect dead computers, where boundaries do get fuzzy is when you resurrect a fully functioning computer into something it wasn't meant to be. It's like copying a Mona Lisa and pretending it is an original. It isn't.

But I think everyone at the end of the day every one can make their own choice of what they want to do.

The world goes on and 99.99% of the world don't even know what the heck we are talking about anyway.

But what ever the arguments are for tuning and software simulations are, don't make them moral arguments because those they are definitely not.

Best regards
Thoughtful post with just one mistake: it is not 99.99% but 99,99999999%.

We should be the guys to be kept in a freezer to the end of the times, the lost generation doomed to vanish in 10, perhaps 20 years at most.


Jurassic park regards
Fern.
Festina Lente
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

spacious_mind wrote:

But I think everyone at the end of the day every one can make their own choice of what they want to do.

But what ever the arguments are for tuning and software simulations are, don't make them moral arguments because those they are definitely not.

Best regards
Yes I suppose both statements are true

Still..in our hobby the modders have set themselves apart from the main stream ..branching off with their tentacles spreading day by day
modified computers such as the so called Fidelity "EAG V11" are creeping into even the finest most highly respected collections..
Ebay auctions now appear frequently proudly announcing modified computers..the cancer grows unabated

I realize that every hobby has its purists as well as an extreme liberal left wing(modders)
the purists among us can only fight the good fight.. informing uninitiated new comers to the hobby that these computers are not authentic..they are not as released for sale ..they were not meant to be this way by the companies that sold them all of those years ago
the purists must closely monitor this dark underbelly of the hobby or else the hobby will be reduced to the infamous biblical city of Sodom and Gomorrah

We Will Not Go Quietly Into The Night Regards
Steve
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

Totally agree Steve, 100%
Those 'Modders' all want throwing together in one big sink hole!!

BTW...did I ever show you my latest creation 'The Chess Scroll'
http://bryanwhitby.simdif.com/

With Blood & Glue on my hands Regards
Bryan
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Chessmaster Ireland wrote:Totally agree Steve, 100%
Those 'Modders' all want throwing together in one big sink hole!!

BTW...did I ever show you my latest creation 'The Chess Scroll'
http://bryanwhitby.simdif.com/

With Blood & Glue on my hands Regards
Bryan
Beautiful indeed
a great way to encourage your grandson to play would be to let him make the moves the Citrine plays and you play the other side
my guess is he will beat you every game
:P

physical modifications to the housing/casing only and not to the hardware is a matter of debate amongst the Purists
some think its not so bad ...hand painted pieces..rank and file labels pasted onto the playing surface ..etc..etc .. are gaining acceptance amongst the less conservative of the purists

for me....even though as enticing and alluring as your modification is ..I do hear..off in the distance the...

Songs Of The Sirens Regards
Steve
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Fluppio
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Post by Fluppio »

Steve B wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:

But I think everyone at the end of the day every one can make their own choice of what they want to do.

But what ever the arguments are for tuning and software simulations are, don't make them moral arguments because those they are definitely not.

Best regards
Yes I suppose both statements are true

Still..in our hobby the modders have set themselves apart from the main stream ..branching off with their tentacles spreading day by day
modified computers such as the so called Fidelity "EAG V11" are creeping into even the finest most highly respected collections..
Ebay auctions now appear frequently proudly announcing modified computers..the cancer grows unabated

I realize that every hobby has its purists as well as an extreme liberal left wing(modders)
the purists among us can only fight the good fight.. informing uninitiated new comers to the hobby that these computers are not authentic..they are not as released for sale ..they were not meant to be this way by the companies that sold them all of those years ago
the purists must closely monitor this dark underbelly of the hobby or else the hobby will be reduced to the infamous biblical city of Sodom and Gomorrah

We Will Not Go Quietly Into The Night Regards
Steve
Hi Steve,

I think you'll find different wings in every hobby. Many collectors are interested and pay a good price for cars (oldtimer), which weren't saled to the normal customers, like racing cars from Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Mercedes.

If you compare this to our hobby, every special machine (prototypes, WM-machines, custom modded versions etc) is a collectors item too. Of course everybody has his own criterias in collecting.

For modding/tuning I try to use only mass production chess computers, but sometimes I must confess, the Schachcomputer Police would take me to the court :twisted:

Prototype regards
Peter
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Fluppio wrote:
Hi Steve,

I think you'll find different wings in every hobby. Many collectors are interested and pay a good price for cars (oldtimer), which weren't saled to the normal customers, like racing cars from Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Mercedes.

If you compare this to our hobby, every special machine (prototypes, WM-machines, custom modded versions etc) is a collectors item too. Of course everybody has his own criterias in collecting.

For modding/tuning I try to use only mass production chess computers, but sometimes I must confess, the Schachcomputer Police would take me to the court :twisted:

Prototype regards
Peter
Hi Peter

Yes well the collecting of prototypes and one-of-a-kind tournament machines is very different from the act of modifying computers and of course this is a perfectly valid pursuit
I myself have no interest in this type of collecting and indeed I have passed up the opportunity to purchase several of these computers in the past

as you say....

To Each His Own Regards
Steve
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