Pure Chess/Chess Ultra (Video game chess)

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royb
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Post by royb »

mclane wrote:Which speed is Xbox or PS4 CPU ??

How much is ultra or pure chess ??
In the US at least, I downloaded Ultra Chess for $12. I cannot speak to the speed of the Xbox One CPU. If you are a non-titled player, you should be able to get a decent game from Ultra Chess on Xbox One or PS4. If you are a titled player, I think this program would be too easy to defeat.

If you want a super strong opponent that can fairly easily defeat a Super GM, get a tablet, smartphone, or PC and run a GM-killer like Komodo or Stockfish.

If you want to play against a computer and have a chance of winning, this is a decent program for not a whole lot of money.
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mclane
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Post by mclane »

PS4 1.6 GHz
Xbox One s 1.75 GHz
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Reinfeld
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Post by Reinfeld »

This, from SedarPL, is interesting:
I play against Ultra Chess on my PS4.
According to developer, Ultra Chess in Grandmaster level (PC Steam version) plays like a 2400 elo player.

I think, PS4 version has weaker strength than PC version.

My strength is around 2000 elo and I can win against Master (2000) and less against World Master (2200) but I did.

Below UCH levels, and if Grandmaster has 2400 then:
Grandmaster 2400
World Master 2200
Master 2000
Professional 1800
Scholar 1600
Expert 1400
Challenger 1200
Amateur 1000
Appretice 800
Novice 600
Presumably, one of the playability goals of Pure/Ultra Chess is a beatable "boss," in the video game sense. The game aims at a popular audience. It's not meant to be invincible - that's no fun, though the developers could have gone that route. In that sense, 2400 Elo (I question the number) is a good sweet spot.

I said I question Sedar's number - I think it's lower, closer to 2250, based on a preliminary run of machine testing. I also get the sense that Ultra's lower levels (1-7) are weaker as a subset than the Pure version, but the top 3 players are the same.

- R.
"You have, let us say, a promising politician, a rising artist that you wish to destroy. Dagger or bomb are archaic and unreliable - but teach him, inoculate him with chess."
– H.G. Wells
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mclane
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Post by mclane »

Is the engine showing any information about search depth, Evaluation or main line ? This way we could identify the engine because of its output.
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mclane
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Post by mclane »

Can I play 40/120 games ?? Or which time controls do I have ??

Without serious time controls playing makes no sense.

Pure chess looks more serious to me then ultra.
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Reinfeld
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Post by Reinfeld »

Thorsten asked:
Is the engine showing any information about search depth, Evaluation or main line ? This way we could identify the engine because of its output.

Can I play 40/120 games ?? Or which time controls do I have ??
1. You can't see the engine's evaluation.
2. Pure does have time controls: either x seconds per move or game in X time (you control and can make it long) with Fischer-style time gains after each move (you control the gains).

After some more recent testing (games and results to come), I'd say Pure Chess at its top level is slightly stronger than Mephisto Atlanta, but barely, so roughly 2280 Elo. I still have to test it against Berlin Pro.

- R.
"You have, let us say, a promising politician, a rising artist that you wish to destroy. Dagger or bomb are archaic and unreliable - but teach him, inoculate him with chess."
– H.G. Wells
Reinfeld
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Post by Reinfeld »

OK, here's an update on this subject.

The two questions that matter:

1. How strong is Pure Chess/Chess Ultra?
2. Which engine/programmer is responsible for it?

The answer to 2 above remains unclear and a bit controversial. The developer dodges questions. See this thread from 2016 (note mclane's presence):

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... light=xbox

Item 1 above is also tricky, but at least I have some game data that gets me closer. For reference, reposting a portion of Sedar's rating reckoning (just the top four levels):
My strength is around 2000 elo and I can win against Master (2000) and less against World Master (2200) but I did.

Below UCH levels, and if Grandmaster has 2400 then:
Grandmaster 2400
World Master 2200
Master 2000
Professional 1800
I questioned those numbers earlier, but upon reflection, I think Sedar might be pretty close, especially when Pure/Ultra is "tuned" to its peak.

I'm limiting this discussion to the top four levels. Bear in mind that I think Ultra and Pure are the same engine. In Pure, the top four levels have these names:

10. Grandmaster (same in Ultra)
9. Master (World Master in Ultra)
8. Wizard (Master in Ultra)
7. Scholar (Professional in Ultra)

Critical point: The Pure/Ultra engine only shows its true strength with time controls. The unlimited setting, which I tried earlier, is weaker. The seconds/move setting is not good. The engine plays best on the only other option, the incremental gain setting. I've chosen G/15, with a 10s gain, pitted against dedicated at 30s/move.

To give a rough sense:

1. Super Connie (1800ish) is roughly even with Level 7 (Scholar/Professional), but it's very close, and I need more data to be sure (with Excellence and machines at similar levels). Level 7 strikes me as the marker between average and above average for the majority of chess players. I can beat Level 7. Level 8 will not yield to my feeble blows.

2. So far, Level 8 (Wizard/Professional) looks like it might be the biggest ELO jump. At the moment, it feels like it plays around 2170. I've been testing it against the Mephisto/Saitek Master, and the feel is close to even, but only if I tune the Master to its tournament book.

3. I ran some early games without the proper time controls on Levels 9 and 10 with stronger machines, but it's clear that won't do for a solid eval. More to come. I don't want to bore anyone with game examples just yet, but I'll get there.

- R.
"You have, let us say, a promising politician, a rising artist that you wish to destroy. Dagger or bomb are archaic and unreliable - but teach him, inoculate him with chess."
– H.G. Wells
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

Well it does look like they hired someone to write the chess engine but was it his own?

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mclane
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Post by mclane »

Could be anybody.

Voofoo ??
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