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Atlanta bug question
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Dave C
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Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 265
Location: SoCal, US

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: TTTT Reply with quote

Hello 49,

I can hardly type because I am laughing sooo hard.. Laughing Your descriptions of the terrible play of both the Atlanta and M4-5 is priceless: "The endgame played by these two imbeciles now enters the “Top Ten Tabletop Turds” of all time."

Sometimes I play games that surprise me as being strong...and then I play a game that is a complete mess. My opponent's responses are key to these mixed results. It seems that top level computers like the Atlanta and Mach4-50 should play better than they did in your tournament. Shocked

Thanks for the commentary along with the games.

Dave
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Larry
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Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: Gosford, NSW Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: Re: TTTT Reply with quote

Dave C wrote:
Hello 49,

I can hardly type because I am laughing sooo hard.. Laughing Your descriptions of the terrible play of both the Atlanta and M4-5 is priceless: "The endgame played by these two imbeciles now enters the “Top Ten Tabletop Turds” of all time."

Sometimes I play games that surprise me as being strong...and then I play a game that is a complete mess. My opponent's responses are key to these mixed results. It seems that top level computers like the Atlanta and Mach4-50 should play better than they did in your tournament. Shocked

Thanks for the commentary along with the games.

Dave

Although I haven't done it for a long time, it can be fun to run through
a game between two supposedly strong tabletops with eg, Hiarcs, and
watch the evaluations swing wildly. Positional and tactical errors are
being made routinely by both machines. The blunders would make
a grown man cry. And to think people used to trade their weeks paypacket
for a plastic pressure sensory chess computer.
L
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Steve B
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 8385
Full Name: Steve B
Location: New York City USofA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: TTTT Reply with quote

Larry wrote:
Dave C wrote:
Hello 49,

I can hardly type because I am laughing sooo hard.. Laughing Your descriptions of the terrible play of both the Atlanta and M4-5 is priceless: "The endgame played by these two imbeciles now enters the “Top Ten Tabletop Turds” of all time."

Sometimes I play games that surprise me as being strong...and then I play a game that is a complete mess. My opponent's responses are key to these mixed results. It seems that top level computers like the Atlanta and Mach4-50 should play better than they did in your tournament. Shocked

Thanks for the commentary along with the games.

Dave

Although I haven't done it for a long time, it can be fun to run through
a game between two supposedly strong tabletops with eg, Hiarcs, and
watch the evaluations swing wildly. Positional and tactical errors are
being made routinely by both machines. The blunders would make
a grown man cry. And to think people used to trade their weeks paypacket
for a plastic pressure sensory chess computer.
L


that's not fair..subjecting strong dedicated computers game play to strong PC engine analysis (running on far more powerful hardware)and then arm chair quarterbacking and yuking it up over their mistakes
how many of us..right now can defeat any of the dedicated computers mocked by you guys at normal or even blitz time controls?
my.guess...less then 5%(if that even)

also...try taking games played by GM's under tournament conditions and subject those games to Hiarcs analysis (or other powerful PC engines)
you will see the blunders fill up the screen as well

Fairness For The Old Chess Computers Regards
Steve
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paulwise3
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Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 554
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: TTTT Reply with quote

Steve B wrote:


that's not fair..subjecting strong dedicated computers game play to strong PC engine analysis (running on far more powerful hardware)and then arm chair quarterbacking and yuking it up over their mistakes
how many of us..right now can defeat any of the dedicated computers mocked by you guys at normal or even blitz time controls?
my.guess...less then 5%(if that even)

also...try taking games played by GM's under tournament conditions and subject those games to Hiarcs analysis (or other powerful PC engines)
you will see the blunders fill up the screen as well

Fairness For The Old Chess Computers Regards
Steve

Quite right Steve. I see this also in our user tournaments: powerful engines showing a +6.0 advantage in he middlegame, and then the machine "screws" the position and loses. The operators hardly see the advantage themselves, but still complain about their machine losing a winning position...

We would have a very hard time even reaching the endgame phase against a Mach4 or Atlanta.

Paul.
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Larry
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Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: Gosford, NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes guys, but please forgive me. I wasn't meaning to speak badly
of the dedicated's, just pointing out the huge gulf in strength between
them and the engines. I actually avoid the new age wooden units
that have an engine in them. To me they are in a different league
and it's impossible to enjoy playing them knowing that I'm just
going to be squashed like a bug. The joy of the dedicated's comes
from knowing I'm in with a chance.
L
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Dave C
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Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 265
Location: SoCal, US

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:08 am    Post subject: Apology Offered Reply with quote

You are right on Steve....I would be thrilled with a 5% success rate against chess computers. Smile
Dave
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Steve B
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 8385
Full Name: Steve B
Location: New York City USofA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now that you guys were making fun of the Atlanta's play...
that Chinese Scam Artist is selling them for $20 a pop(shipping included)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schachcomputer-Mephisto-Atlanta-Electronic-chess-Jeu-d-checs-lect/152787379210?hash=item2392d6640a:g:2PsAAOSwxzdaCxjY

Grifter Regards
Steve
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Four.nine
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve B wrote:
Well now that you guys were making fun of the Atlanta's play...
that Chinese Scam Artist is selling them for $20 a pop(shipping included)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schachcomputer-Mephisto-Atlanta-Electronic-chess-Jeu-d-checs-lect/152787379210?hash=item2392d6640a:g:2PsAAOSwxzdaCxjY

Grifter Regards
Steve


Just so we are all perfectly clear:
I do not, as you have asserted several times, make fun of my Atlanta.
It is an excellent and highly prized chess computer that I own.

It is however, frustrating to see the Atlanta calculate some very low level patzer play, knowing that Atlanta can play this type of game (from a 2014 tournament):


Game 36 Last game for Tasc, the champion! And…Atlanta WINS!

Finally, on the very last game, Tasc loses a game…to the former champ Atlanta!: fine game by Atlanta. D14 QGD semi-Slav, Chigorin defense in book for 11 moves. Tasc calculates 12. Qxd4 (book is Nxd4). Not a disaster as Stockfish still has the position even. Stockfish “curiously” calls for 16. e5 which quickly loses that pawn, although Stockfish isn’t too worried??? By move 25, Tasc is down -1.5 with no apparent bad moves and nothing to show for the pawn sacrifice…WHY THE F, CALL FOR 16. e5 THEN, JIT? On the other side, Atlanta is cautiously maneuvering to take eventual advantage of the extra Queenside pawn. Now, Tasc did start outplaying Atlanta and slowly whittled away at that lead. With weak move 33. .. Qc6?, the game is virtually a draw, thanks to the Tasc advanced pawn on c5. Both sides then maneuvered pieces, but played several “non-optimal” moves (Atlanta calculated slightly better and by move 38 had a -1.1 eval lead). Then Tasc disaster: 38 Qc3?? This single move can be considered: GAME OVER! Atlanta will win (38. Qb4 keeps Tasc in the game). From this point, Atlanta made (I believe I counted) ELEVEN STRAIGHT Stockfish recommended moves; Tasc was finished off, tout de suit. Tasc SHOULD have courteously resigned at move 43, but has been programmed to waste the user’s time until a forced “Mate in 7 or 8” is found.

[Date "Dec 22, 2014"]
[White "Tasc"]
[Black "Atlanta"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 c6 5. e3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 Bd6 7. O-O O-O 8. e4
dxc4 9. Bxc4 e5 10. Bg5 Qe7 11. Re1 exd4 12. Qxd4 Ne5 13. Nxe5 Bxe5 14. Qe3 Qb4
15. Bxf6 Bxf6 16. e5 Bxe5 17. Qxe5 Qxc4 18. Rad1 Be6 19. b3 Qa6 20. Qg5 h6 21.
Qc5 Rfd8 22. Qe7 Re8 23. Qb4 Rad8 24. Qf4 Rxd1 25. Rxd1 Qa5 26. Qe3 Kf8 27. Qd4
c5 28. Qd3 a6 29. Ne4 c4 30. bxc4 Qxa2 31. Nd6 Rd8 32. c5 Qa4 33. Rb1 Qc6 34.
Qa3 Rd7 35. Re1 b5 36. Re5 Rd8 37. f3 Rb8 38. Qc3 b4 39. Qd3 Kg8 40. Nf5 Qc7
41. Nd6 b3 42. Qb1 b2 43. Kf2 Ba2 44. Qxa2 b1=Q 45. Qd5 Rb2+ 46. Kg3 Qg6+ 47.
Kf4 Qxg2 48. Qxf7+ Qxf7+ 49. Nxf7 Kxf7 50. h4 Qh2+ 51. Ke4 Resigns 0-1
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Steve B
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 8385
Full Name: Steve B
Location: New York City USofA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Four.nine wrote:


It is an excellent and highly prized chess computer that I own.



Here we can agree

Finding Common Ground Regards
Steve
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