YoYo's Fidelity Serial Number Theory

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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

yoyo_chessboard wrote:hi all and particulary Nick and Mike

Nick:
i think we are all OK for the period starting in 1977 till end of 1989.
what i called period_1 to period_4 in my listing.
there are some improvments for 1978/1979 but we have correclty pined the boards.

after that, for 1990, 1991 i named two periods:
period_5 with serial number of 8 digits that seems to follow the previous algo :YDDDSSSS
and period_6 with 8 digits apparently (re)starting from 0.

if i well undestood you, you think period_6 is previous_5.

myself i think the contrary : period_5 is prior to period_6.

if i follow your article written in april 1990, i read that:

The result is Chesster Challenger, a computer with a sarcastic streak and a 500-word vocabulary that hones in on mistakes in an opponent`s game.
The game`s suggested retail price -- Fidelity`s retailers include Burdines, Sears and Toys ``R`` Us -- will be $199 when Chesster appears on store shelves, probably in July.


the game will be aviable in july 1990.
in our common listing we have a chesster in week_90_35, two in week_90_38 , two in week_90_39,... (so august 1990)
chesster and kishon extract :
http://www7.zippyshare.com/v/ITdnOFrU/file.html

so i really think that period_5 is prior period_6.

and that article seems to lead to the same direction.

kishon chesster appeared later, probably in last days of 1990.

i think also that mike's timeline is in the right order, and needs only some improvments on the really month of birth of a model, but not a total upside-down.

saying that it remains the problem i identified earlier.
the last numbering day of 1989 is 321 (novembre 1989)
the first serial we have from 1990 is from day 243 (31 august 1990)
even if we find a serial from december 1989, what did Fidelity do during that long period ? (between december 1989 to august 1990)
did they stop their production and moved it to Asia ? or anything else.


regards
Hi Yoyo

Yes, Chesster, Designer and Bridge Challenger are probably accurate starting with August 31st 1990. It is possible that the 000's started in January 1991 which would also approximately fit the timeline for Premiere. Vancouver won the WM in May 1991 uncontested so even thought I put 0001 as Jan 0002 as Feb etc just for the sake of sorting the computers by serial number. Fidelity moved sometime between August - December 91 to ZIP 33172. Therefore the 0001, 0002 etc is probably not the month but just the order that the computers came to the serial table. Maybe all they did was separate the models only through 0001, 0002 etc and it no longer has a date match to it? Although 0005 for Vancouver would still be a date match for May 1991 ??

But you are right there is a 9 month gap in 1990 before Chesster.

Last computer for 1989 also shows only November 89.

Maybe between that period Fidelity was told to sell only Hunt for Red October and Knobel Klack or what ever it was called :)

Regards
Nick
yoyo_chessboard
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Post by yoyo_chessboard »

Hi Steve B and all Fidelity fans

in your flickr album there is this photo :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@ ... 923819227/

it is the factory when Fidelity was at Miami 8800 NW 36 th street 33178.
so till 1986.
it is not so difficult to guess as it is written in big letters 8800 on the building.

here is the google map https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/8800+Nor ... 25.8261448

and the road to the new factory which seems in the middle of nowhere.

regards
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

yoyo_chessboard wrote:Hi Steve B and all Fidelity fans

in your flickr album there is this photo :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@ ... 923819227/


it is the factory when Fidelity was at Miami 8800 NW 36 th street 33178.
so till 1986.
it is not so difficult to guess as it is written in big letters 8800 on the building.


Yes it was
a glorious ,vibrant factory ..employing hundreds of people during the peak and "heyday" of dedicated chess computers

now ..sadly.. all that remains ...is a photo.. as the factory has since been abandoned ..and now torn down..a mere memory of what once was
An Era....

Gone With The Wind Regards
Steve
yoyo_chessboard
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Post by yoyo_chessboard »

i am still collecting serial number from Ebay and i have now more than 400.

I have also bought last week a kishon chesster to verify the fidelity serial theory for 1990/1991.
it has serial number 00064318 and model 6127.

it has the same main board as previous kishon chesster i opened and dumped.
the ROM is having the ID 101-1094A01
but more important the date code is :9111
so it is from 1991, at least march 1991, as i supposed previously.

so i suppose that at end of 1990, or at the very beginning of 1991, Fidelity (or H&G) decided to reset the serial number logic.
did they start with serial 00000001 . not sure.

but t is not so simple :
i also opened a kishon 6120G serial 00086095 and it seems to be previous to the 00064318, as the rom has a date of 14/01/1991.

i don't know what can be the difference between kishon 6120G and kishon 6127 (if any), and why they made two different references for the same product.

looking at the pcb i don't see any visible difference ! (same chips, same speed : 3.58 Mhz, same binaries)

conclusion : there is still some dark zone in the fidelity numbering, even we have built the timeline from the beginning to end of 1990.

regards
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Stray Black Cat
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Post by Stray Black Cat »

I only have a couple of Fidelity computers that you can add.
Chesster Phantom 6124 ser# 00095383 by Fidelity International, Inc
and a Bridge Challenger Model BLC Ser# 443492 by Fidelity Electronics, LTD. 8800 N.W. 36TH ST. MIAMI, FLORIDA 33178. The Bridge Challenger has a Z80-A CPU. The manual is copyright 1979. You can put the owner as StevenL
My 6124 came with a 6100 manual and a 3 page addendum titled ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS IMPORTANT. I still think the 6124 was a sales tool to promote the 6126 which was only on pre-order when I got my Phantom. Mine was the floor model and the store only had the 6100s, Chesster Challengers, and were taking pre-orders for the 6126. The constant "Hey you, Ya you. Come over here" was getting on the store owners nerves after three days. The 6100 were $350, the 6126 were $550. I got the 6124 for $375, the price of the coffee machine I was buying went I commented that I liked the self moving, talking chess machine. He said I could have it for the same price and I bought it instead. :D
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paulwise3
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Post by paulwise3 »

Hi all,

I have a specific question about the Chess Challenger 10A.
It is also about the question wether it does rochade or not.
Hein Veldhuis detected a publication of Theo Schuster in Rochade (12-1978) about the Toytronic Chess Electronics (a clone of the CC10A). And indeed it applies to the original 10A as well:
The first 6 plies are from the opening library:
1. e4 c5 2. Sf3 d6 3. d4 cd 4. Sd4: Sf6 5. Sc3 g6 6. Le2 Lg7
and now on levels 1 and 2 it computes 7. E1G1 = 0-0 !!

Also about the date codes in the serial number, in this thread I cannot find an explanation for the CC10A serial numbers, or did I miss something?
So far we have the following serial numbers:
69248 (Rob van Son)
69364 (does rochade in another situation!) (Luuk Hofman)
159763 (Luuk Hofman)
69409 (Paul Wiselius)
69505 (Paul Wiselius)
and a few of Hein Veldhuis are to come.

NB: Rob van Son has two CC10B's, one of them with the location of the new head office in Florida on the back:
CC10B 190461 Illinois, Chicago.
CC10B 254585 Miami, Florida.

CC10A testing regards,
Paul
2024 Special thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12741
2024 Special results and standings: https://schaakcomputers.nl/paul_w/Tourn ... 25_06.html
If I am mistaken, it must be caused by a horizon effect...
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

paulwise3 wrote:Hi all,

I have a specific question about the Chess Challenger 10A.
It is also about the question wether it does rochade or not.
Hein Veldhuis detected a publication of Theo Schuster in Rochade (12-1978) about the Toytronic Chess Electronics (a clone of the CC10A). And indeed it applies to the original 10A as well:
The first 6 plies are from the opening library:
1. e4 c5 2. Sf3 d6 3. d4 cd 4. Sd4: Sf6 5. Sc3 g6 6. Le2 Lg7
and now on levels 1 and 2 it computes 7. E1G1 = 0-0 !!

A
Hi Paul
i can confirm that the CC10A will castle in that position on levels 1 and 2
i tested some other levels:
Level 3 it plays 7.Be3
Levels 4 and 5 it plays 7.0-0!

New Information after 40 Years Regards
Steve
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microhenri
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Post by microhenri »

Hi all
Where can I find the complete list of serial numbers with production dates discussed in this topic?

microHenri
Larry
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Post by Larry »

yoyo_chessboard wrote: here is the google map https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/8800+Nor ... 25.8261448

and the road to the new factory which seems in the middle of nowhere.

regards
Looks like the factory is built almost at sea level.
Fast forward another 25 years, and with sea level rise you will need
scuba gear to visit the site.
L
Altfeld
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Fidelity Chess Challenger VSC

Post by Altfeld »

I have a 1980 Fidelity Chess Challenger VSC w/SN: 03402818 that just went on the fritz. Is there anyone who can repair it? It will turn on but won't function. Thank you.
Ziryab
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Re: early fidelity serials

Post by Ziryab »

yoyo_chessboard wrote:i think we have almost reversed all the timeline.
it remains just an effort to produce for the early years till sept-1980.

i made this file with the serial numbers that are prior to the first 8 digits serials.
we now admit that the 8digits started someday between july and september 1980 as first 8digits ....

i have reworked my list and i find it more readable for these early years.
for the moment, i have voluntary put :
1980 for miami
1979 for chicago
and 1978 for serials with unknown postal code.

for the moment we know, for sure, according the label, that serial 197294 is the last from chicago
and 233903 is the first from miami for the same reason.
I have a Chess Challenger with a serial number of 848970 and the first Miami address.

If I understand the posts here (I read the whole thread quickly before my morning coffee), it would have been manufactured sometime in 1980.
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Tibono2
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Post by Tibono2 »

Hi,

I just received a Fidelity Sensory Chess Challenger 6 - not a must for a collection, but I could not resist (mint cosmetic & working condition, complete with the original mains adapter, the set of chessmen, user manual, original packaging... all this for 5€ (yes, five!).
What striked me is: the box included a small sticker page from which the current S/N and model label came from, and providing 4 additional smaller labels for the S/N:

Image

In addition to sharing an additional S/N, I raise the question: does anyone remind of Fidelity providing such stickers? Is it usual to find them?
I guess this was in forecast of further maintenance, do you think so?

Cheers,
Tibono
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Tibono2 wrote:
does anyone remind of Fidelity providing such stickers? Is it usual to find them?
Hi Tibono
personally i like the SC6 ..keep an eye out for the two add-on modules made for the SC6(BO6 and CG6)

while it is not so common today to find the serial numbers still on the original Fidelity box(many have fallen off over the years) i have never seen a sticker like yours with 4 of the same numbers...that alone is a nice collectable
and to think all of that for 5 euro....


Best Deal for 2020 So Far Regards
Steve
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Tibono2
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Post by Tibono2 »

Thanks Steve for the useful comments.
Steve B wrote:while it is not so common today to find the serial numbers still on the original Fidelity box...
Oh yes, you must be right, one for the box, maybe some for easier completion of documents for the professional seller or importer, for its own use or to send back to the factory... maybe the unused stickers were left there through an oversight.

Kind regards,
Tibono
Larry
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Post by Larry »

yoyo_chessboard wrote:Hi Steve B and all Fidelity fans

in your flickr album there is this photo :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@ ... 923819227/

it is the factory when Fidelity was at Miami 8800 NW 36 th street 33178.
so till 1986.
it is not so difficult to guess as it is written in big letters 8800 on the building.

here is the google map https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/8800+Nor ... 25.8261448

and the road to the new factory which seems in the middle of nowhere.

regards
Today the site is what looks like a flash residential building in a busy
neighbourhood.
L
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