HIARCS Chess Forums Forum Index HIARCS Chess Forums
World Championship winning computer chess software program & downloads for chess database, analysis and play on PC, Mac and iPhone
 
 QuestionsQuestions   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 

BBC News; 'Google's ... DeepMind AI claims chess crown'

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    HIARCS Chess Forums Forum Index -> Main Lobby / General Discussions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author
pennine22
Member


Joined: 14 Oct 2014
Posts: 22
Full Name: David Walker

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: BBC News; 'Google's ... DeepMind AI claims chess crown' Reply with quote

Not sure if old news in the chess community but spotted this BBC News item Dec. 7th on Google's AI chess software learning chess from scratch 'in a few hours' and then beating or drawing Stockfish 8 over 100 games.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42251535
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
chesspcmac
Member


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 156
Full Name: Mike
Location: Brick- NJ- USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Hmmm Reply with quote

Interesting. Thanks for sharing it. So chess at the end will be like tic-tac-toe. I wonder how much input the computer received. This AI was able to learn about OPENINGS, open files, bishop pairs, passed pawns, weak points etc. by itself in few hours, days? So decades of chess knowledge and this AI learnt all of this in few hours, days? So for this computer we are like roaches.

More depressed than happy regards


Mike
_________________
"Sir, the slowness of genius is hard to bear, but the slowness of mediocrity is insufferable"

Henry Thomas Buckle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yarc
Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 210
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Alpha 0 neural network is clever for sure, and I read that it's ELO performance is about 3489 ELO in its match against Stockfish8. This strength was obtained after only 4 hours of playing itself at chess! I call this true AI, no human knowledge programmed in, only the rules of the game.

As we have already been defeated at chess by conventional chess engines such as Stockfish, Komodo, Houdini etc. for sometime now, I don't think we need to be depressed, just accept that it's pointless playing against such programs.

There is still plenty of interest for us in the Royal of chess, we can play other mortals or our weaker but still strong dedicated machines and enjoy discovering new things all the time.

Even though draughts/checkers has been solved, it still does not take away the pleasure of playing this game against other humans or weaker engines.

Just My Not So Deep Thought Regards
Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
X__Gandalf__X
Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2017
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: BBC News; 'Google's ... DeepMind AI claims chess crown' Reply with quote

pennine22 wrote:
Not sure if old news in the chess community but spotted this BBC News item Dec. 7th on Google's AI chess software learning chess from scratch 'in a few hours' and then beating or drawing Stockfish 8 over 100 games.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42251535


I am truly astonished. I'm also a little bit scared of what the future might bring Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spacious_mind
Senior Member


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 2986
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: BBC News; 'Google's ... DeepMind AI claims chess crown' Reply with quote

X__Gandalf__X wrote:
pennine22 wrote:
Not sure if old news in the chess community but spotted this BBC News item Dec. 7th on Google's AI chess software learning chess from scratch 'in a few hours' and then beating or drawing Stockfish 8 over 100 games.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42251535


I am truly astonished. I'm also a little bit scared of what the future might bring Shocked


Well if it were ever made available to the public it might destroy the engine chess hobby and human correspondence chess.

As an oldie fan it is not going to change what I enjoy and neither will it change anything with over the table face to face human vs human games.

So I guess I am not that worried about it or interested Smile

Best regards
_________________
Nick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Clive
Member


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 24
Full Name: Clive Munro
Location: New Forest, England.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds impressive. But is it really?

Consider this.


1: Deep Mind was running on faster hardware. It could have been running on thousands of processors. Stockfish was probably running on some old R&D laptop.

2: No opening book means that Stockfish could have been playing the same move again and again. Deep Mind finds a way to win with white after 25 games and then repeats this another 25 times. With Black it took it 47 goes before getting a win.

3: Limited to 1 minute a move. This would surely favour Deep Mind running with all that hardware.

The best we can say is that it never lost to Stockfish which on its first game means it had at least reached a good standard of chess with only four hours training.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BlackSails911
Member


Joined: 06 Sep 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Clive. We need more transparency regarding the match, the hardware, and other conditions. The cherry picked games Deepmind/Google presented are very impressive in any event.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steve B
Forum Elder


Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 8431
Full Name: Steve B
Location: New York City USofA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: BBC News; 'Google's ... DeepMind AI claims chess crown' Reply with quote

spacious_mind wrote:


As an oldie fan it is not going to change what I enjoy and neither will it change anything with over the table face to face human vs human games.

So I guess I am not that worried about it or interested Smile



pretty much my thoughts exactly
in fact..the stronger these super computers get in chess...4000.5000.6000 elo and beyond....the more I push back drilling down deeper and deeper into my old computers
Hmmm ..Perhaps a match...Novag Savant II vs.Scisys Mark VI Philidor(with auto-sensory board attachment) is in order...

Luddite Regards
Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
spacious_mind
Senior Member


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 2986
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: BBC News; 'Google's ... DeepMind AI claims chess crown' Reply with quote

Steve B wrote:


pretty much my thoughts exactly
in fact..the stronger these super computers get in chess...4000.5000.6000 elo and beyond....the more I push back drilling down deeper and deeper into my old computers
Hmmm ..Perhaps a match...Novag Savant II vs.Scisys Mark VI Philidor(with auto-sensory board attachment) is in order...

Luddite Regards
Steve


Wise decision. I am still trying to understand how this all works.

Google buys a company for $500,000,000.00 who spends 7 years playing Go, Shogi and Chess.

For most of that time they probably go and take open source chess information to develop their program, do 5 years of testing, use 2000+ core computer power to play Stockfish for about 4 years or so and then post 10 games to show how superior it is without sharing code much of which probably originates from Stockfish and Co. to begin with Smile (They have to take chess info from somewhere in order to figure chess out)

Sounds more like desperation, someone has to justify that initial $1/2 Billion dollar purchase plus millions of $'s spent per year over the past 5 or 6 years.

To show what? To do what with it? What ever Google has they probably are still trying to figure out what to do with all this.... lol

Perhaps they could have saved $400,000,000 by just offering the world's top 10 chess programmers $10,000,000 each to collaborate full time in an office together for a couple of years and perhaps they might have achieved the same results and at the same time saved $400,000,000 in the process Smile

Let me guess... If we can figure out and master chess, then we can figure out and master the world next! Smile

It's a mad, mad world!

Regards
_________________
Nick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    HIARCS Chess Forums Forum Index -> Main Lobby / General Discussions All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP