Human versus Machine

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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

spacious_mind wrote:
We have to do it this way because our Moderator hates having to stand on his head to read the FEN .... LOL :P
LOL
Upside Down Regards
Steve
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

spacious_mind wrote:Lyudmil,

A tip with FEN posts:

r3r1k1/pp1q1p2/2p2npb/PPPp1bnp/3PpN2/2N1P1PP/1R1B1PBK/3Q1R2 b - - 0 19

What we do here is try to remember to change it even if it Black's turn to move by changing the b to w to make it easier for people to follow. So for example we post as follows:

r3r1k1/pp1q1p2/2p2npb/PPPp1bnp/3PpN2/2N1P1PP/1R1B1PBK/3Q1R2 w - - 0 19

[fen]r3r1k1/pp1q1p2/2p2npb/PPPp1bnp/3PpN2/2N1P1PP/1R1B1PBK/3Q1R2 w - - 0 19[/fen]

We have to do it this way because our Moderator hates having to stand on his head to read the FEN .... LOL :P

Regards
I am happy I managed to post at all...:)
After I post a few, I will see what I can do for your mod.
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Here another test from the positional suite:

[fen]rnbqk2r/1p2bpp1/p2ppn1p/8/3NPP1B/2N2Q2/PPP3PP/R3KB1R b KQkq - 0 9[/fen]

Any self-respecting engine should find here 9...g5! for full equality. 10. fg5 hg5!(Nfd7 Qh5! is weaker, as black can not recapture with the h pawn towards the center) 11. Bg5 Nfd7, with nice outpost square for the knight on e5, pawn less, but central phalanx.
9...e5 instead might be losing after 10. Nf5, but the lines are long.
9... Nc6 is simply worse than 9...g5, as no full equality here.

Any self-respecting engines on this forum?
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Forgot to say, this is from Cardoso-Fischer, New York 1957.
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Here one more puzzle for you(in the hope someone will look at my book):


[fen]r4rk1/4bppp/pqbp1n2/1p2pPB1/4P3/1BNQ4/PPP3PP/R4R1K w - - 0 15[/fen]

The point is to find 15. Bf6!(which SF finds, or maybe first a4 b4, which does not change the overall character of the position and assessment) Bf6, and then 16. Bd5!, which is the real key move, and which SF fails to see. It prefers 16. Nd5? instead, which after 16...Bd5 17. Bd5 should only lead to a draw in an ending with opposite colour bishops.

Any engine seeing that sequence?
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Post by scandien »

hello,

the way the opposite bishop endgame is rather lon,g. You will face a game with 1 Queen, 2 rooks and one bishop ( opposite colours).

In those case , the attacks ( on both side will be easier to launch ( because of the weakness on the opposite colour of the opponent) and the game have good chance to lead to a decisive result.
Smarthink consider 15.Bxf6 Bxf6 16.Nd5 leading to such an pre-endgame.

On the other choice ( Fisher one) 15.Bxf6 Bxf6 16.Bd5 Rac8 17.Bxc6 , white will face and 'quiet' endgame , with a knigth facing a bad bishop, and a backwared pawn in d6 ( two weakness for back). Those end game fit Fisher style ( he liked to kill any opponent counter-play, and he wasn't afraid about very long endgame.

The first option will gave better chance of victory to both side ( white will be even a little bit better ) but will gave also better counter play to black.

So the selected line will fit Fischer style, but engine will probably prefer the line with Nd5

Human consideration regards

Nicolas
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Post by scandien »

another consideration :

stockfish gibes the following evaluation score to the following lines :

15.a4 b4 16.Bxf6 Bxf6 17.Nd5 Bxd5 18.Bxd5 Ra7 (stockfish +0.38 smarthink 0.10)

15.Bxf6 Bxf6 16.Nd5 Bxd5 17.Bxd5 Ra7 ((stockfish +0.44 smarthink +0.10)

15.15.Bxf6 Bxf6 16.Bd5 Rac8 17.Bxc6 Rxc6 (Fischer's line : stockfish +0.54 smarthink +0.12)

Stockfish evaluation are beetwen a range of 16 centipawns, smarthink's one are even closer ( only 3 centipawns) this is not really relevant from human view (we can't see or explain the difference , and the human evaluation and choice will rely on own preferences and styles.

Some players will fit one of the previous one, other not

best regards

Nicolas
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Yeah, but actually only Bd5 wins, while Nd5 draws.
On Talkchess forum, a 64 core machine needs 45 minutes and depth 46 to see Bd5 is best with a score of 100cps.

Not an easy one for SF, I would say.

Here one more:

[fen]3r1rk1/1p1n1ppp/pNbpp3/8/2P1P3/5P2/PPB3PP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 19[/fen]

Only one move wins here, can you/your engines find it?

This is from Fischer-Rossetto, Mar del Plata 1959.[/fen]
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Btw., if someone is interested, here one review for 'Human versus Machine':
https://www.expert-chess-strategies.com ... chine.html
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Currently, the 1st part is just 1 dollar: https://www.amazon.com/Human-Versus-Mac ... 8&qid=&sr=
You can have the 3 for 7!
This will be just a limited offer, so don't miss it.
'The Secret of Chess' is also much cheaper.
Btw., anyone who has purchased the paperback of 'The Secret of Chess', can now download the ebook for free.
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Post by Cyberchess »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: Here one more:

[fen]3r1rk1/1p1n1ppp/pNbpp3/8/2P1P3/5P2/PPB3PP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 19[/fen]

Only one move wins here, can you/your engines find it?

This is from Fischer-Rossetto, Mar del Plata 1959.[/fen]
Greetings Lyudmil:

Might it be (Nd5)?

Taking a Stab Sans Engines Regards,
John
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Here is an interesting article on the book and anti-computer chess in general with 5 replayable games: https://glarean-magazin.ch/2018/04/14/a ... -tsvetkov/
In the lower left corner, there is a 'Translate' button, you can certainly read the English translation from German,
what you will understand is another matter.
In any case, the multitude of replayable games are interesting.
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Cyberchess wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: Here one more:

[fen]3r1rk1/1p1n1ppp/pNbpp3/8/2P1P3/5P2/PPB3PP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 19[/fen]

Only one move wins here, can you/your engines find it?

This is from Fischer-Rossetto, Mar del Plata 1959.[/fen]
Greetings Lyudmil:

Might it be (Nd5)?

Taking a Stab Sans Engines Regards,
John
Indeed, the 'sans Engines' approach is a good one.
Correct, this is the move, how long did you need to find it, it is a bit unusual one?
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Just to inform people that anyone with Kindle Unlimited can read for free
"Human versus Machine": https://www.amazon.com/Human-Versus-Mac ... 8&qid=&sr=
Maybe someone will be interested.
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Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

The whole book is now available to download free as part of a promotion: https://www.amazon.com/Human-Versus-Mac ... us+machine
Don't miss your chance.
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