MCGE against the Magellan

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Scally
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Post by Scally »

Yarc wrote:This brings a new meaning to postal chess ....
haha, great quote.


Al.
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Yarc
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Post by Yarc »

Well, the saga continues :cry:

The second replacement MCGE turned up this morning and on testing it discovered a problem with the LED's on the chess board. When picking up the white Rook on H1 all the H file LED's are lit!!

If that wasn't enough there is something rattling around inside the chess board, maybe a lose screw. Aaaargh!

Not third time lucky Regards
Ray
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Post by Steve B »

Yarc wrote:Well, the saga continues :cry:

The second replacement MCGE turned up this morning and on testing it discovered a problem with the LED's on the chess board. When picking up the white Rook on H1 all the H file LED's are lit!!

If that wasn't enough there is something rattling around inside the chess board, maybe a lose screw. Aaaargh!

Not third time lucky Regards
Ray
That sounds like some damage occurred in shipping
at this point...you might want to take a quick drive to Germany and just pick up a working one once and for all

European Union Regards
Steve
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Yarc
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Post by Yarc »

Steve B wrote:at this point...you might want to take a quick drive to Germany and just pick up a working one once and for all

European Union Regards
Steve
Cough! Just a short trip of 483 miles, about 9 hours driving and that's one way. Certainly would be nice to take this trip, but alas cannot undertake at this time, too many commitments. Then there is the thought of it going wrong again, it doen't bare thinking about.

Waiting for Millennium's reply Regards
Ray
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Post by jupiter6 »

You have to wonder about the build quality of these things of that's what is happening. I was considering getting one sent from Germany to Australia, but this makes me wonder if I would be better buying it locally (at an obscene price markup). If there is a problem, I would be able to resolve it better I think. Still, those DGT drivers and PGN app from topschach.de...
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Post by Scally »

Ray,

I sympathise with you, I bought mine 2nd hand from this Forum and it arrived in perfect condition.


Cheers,

Al.
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Yarc
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Post by Yarc »

jupiter6 wrote:You have to wonder about the build quality of these things of that's what is happening....
I agree, and I believe Millennium will want to sort this out. As Steve suggested, the last one sent could have been damaged in transit, but the second one with split wood varnished over was not good.

My original MCGE looks great and is now strangely behaving itself, no piece recognition problems. I'm wondering if it was some form of radio interference upsetting it. This could explain the apparent randomness of it. Fingers crossed, it has not gone wrong for ages.

My gut feeling is to keep this unit and send the other one back, I don't know that I want to risk yet another damaged/faulty unit!

I could have purchased one from the London Chess & Bridge shop but there price is ridiculous at £800, that's £300 more than from Schach Niggemann.

Still waiting for a reply from Millennium Regards
Ray
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Post by Yarc »

I decided that while waiting for Millennium's response to carry on with the match. My original MCGE is still working without issues.

So here is game 7:

[Event "40m/2h MCGE v Magellan Champion Book"]
[Date "2018.01.09"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Magellan"]
[Black "MCGE"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D28"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4 dxc4 4. e3 e6 5. Bxc4 a6 6. Qe2 b5 7. Bb3 c5 8. O-O Nc6
9. dxc5 Bxc5 10. Bd2 Bb7 11. Rd1 Qe7 12. Bc3 Rd8 13. Rxd8+ Qxd8 14. Nbd2 Bb4 15. Rd1
Bxc3 16. Ne4 Qc7 17. Nd6+ Ke7 18. bxc3 Rd8 19. Nxb7 Rxd1+ 20. Qxd1 Qxb7 21. Qc1 Ke8
22. c4 Na5 23. cxb5 Nxb3 24. bxa6 Nxc1 25. axb7 Nd7 26. Ne5 Nb8 27. Nxf7 Kxf7 28.
a3 Nd3 29. f3 Ne5 30. Kf2 Nc4 31. f4 Nxa3 32. g4 Nc4 33. e4 Nd6 34. Kf3 Nxb7 35. h3
e5 36. h4 exf4 37. Kxf4 Ke6 38. Kf3 Ke5 39. Ke3 Nc5 40. Kf3 Nxe4 41. Ke3 Nc6 42. Kf3
Nd4+ 43. Ke3 g6 44. h5 g5 45. h6 Nf6 46. Kd3 Nxg4 47. Kd2 Ke4 48. Ke1 Kd3 49. Kf1
Kd2 50. Kg2 Ke2 51. Kg3 Ne3 52. Kh2 Kf2 53. Kh3 Ndf5 54. Kh2 g4 55. Kh1 Ng3+ 56. Kh2
Nef1+ 0-1

Here is the final position:
[fen]8/7p/7P/8/6p1/6n1/5k1K/5n2 w - - 4 57[/fen]

In this game they played the QGA, Classical, Flohr variation. There entailed many piece exchanges and the game soon reached the middle game stage with a pretty much even rating, perhaps White in a slightly better position.

Here is the game at move 23 with White to move:
[fen]4k3/1q3ppp/p3pn2/np6/2P5/1B2PN2/P4PPP/2Q3K1 w - - 1 23[/fen]

The following moves were played:
23. PxP NxB
24. PxP?? Why did it not take the Knight on b3?
24. ... Nxc1

Now Black's Knight on c1 is threatening to take the Pawn on a2 and is in a far better position. I think the Magellan put too much evaluation on getting its Pawn on b7 which was never going to queen.

Then, if that blunder wasn't enough, here is another blunder from the Magellan at move 27:
[fen]1n2k3/1P3ppp/4p3/4N3/8/4P3/P4PPP/2n3K1 w - - 3 27[/fen]
Here White seemed to give up and moved NxP?? Giving up a Knight to a Pawn. It was now just a matter of time before the MCGE finished the Magellan off!

One interesting tidbit is that on move 48 the MCGE announced mate in 12:
[fen]8/7p/7P/6p1/3n2n1/3k4/8/4K3 w - - 4 49[/fen]
Then after White moved it announced mate in 13:
[fen]8/7p/7P/6p1/3n2n1/8/3k4/5K2 w - - 6 50[/fen]

Finally it settled on mate in 7 on move 50.... Ke2 and the Magellan then also saw it!
[fen]8/7p/7P/6p1/3n2n1/8/3k2K1/8 w - - 7 50[/fen]

Another win for the MCGE, which is no surprise really. It is rather steam rolling over the Magellan, but does however, have a loss and a draw against this machine. It's not infallible despite its speed advantage, something which has been mentioned before in this forum.

Current score 5.5 - 1.5 to the MCGE Regards
Ray
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Yarc
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Post by Yarc »

Millennium sent me an e-mail saying they are going to test another unit and send to me! I have replied asking them not to at this time but I may be too late. At this rate I shall be spending more time unpacking and packing MCGE's then actually using one! Joking asside, they are paying for the postage, and the last unit could have been damaged in transit, so unfair to count that one as bad quality control.

Strangely, my original machine is still working faultlessly!?

So onto game 8:

Here the Magellan makes a comeback after a row of losses.

They opened with the Caro-Kann, Closed(Breyer) variation.

[Event "40m/2h MCGE v Magellan Champion Book"]
[Date "2018.01.09"]
[Round "8"]
[White "MCGE"]
[Black "Magellan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B10"]

1.e4 c6 2.d3 d5 3.Qe2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Nf3 g6 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.d4 O-O 8.e6 fxe6 9.Qxe6+ Kh8 10.Qe2 Nf6 11.Qd2 Bg4 12.Be2 Bxf3 13.Bxf3 Nbd7 14.Be2 e5 15.dxe5 Nxe5 16.O-O d4 17.Nd1 Qd5 18.f4 Ne4 19.Qb4 d3 20.Ne3 dxe2 21.Nxd5 exf1=R+ 22.Kxf1 cxd5 23.Qxb7 Ng4 24.Qxd5 Rfe8 25.g3 Rad8 26.Qb5 Nxh2+ 27.Kg2 Ng4 28.c3 Re7 29.Qe2 h5 30.Qb5 Nh6 31.f5 Nxf5 32.Bf4 Kh7 33.Qa5 Rf8 34.Qb5 g5 35.Bb8 a6 36.Qb6 Rf6 37.Qb4 Nexg3 38.Kg1 Re2 39.Qb7 h4 40.Bxg3 Nxg3 41.Qd7 Rff2 42.Qd3+ Kh6 43.Qd5 Rd2 44.Qc6+ Kh7 45.Qd5 Rfe2 46.Qxd2 Rxd2 47.Rd1 Rxd1+ 48.Kf2 Rf1+ 49.Ke3 h3 50.Kd3 h2 51.Kc4 h1=Q 52.Kb3 Qd5+ 53.Ka3 Rf2 54.Ka4 Qxa2+ 55.Kb4 Bf8# 0-1

Final position
[fen]5b2/7k/p7/6p1/1K6/2P3n1/qP3r2/8 w - - 2 56[/fen]

No blunders in this game, but this move by the MCGE caught my attention:
[fen]rnbq1rk1/pp1nppbp/2p3p1/3pP3/3P4/2N2N2/PPP1QPPP/R1B1KB1R w KQ - 1 8[/fen]
Here the MCGE(White) played 8. Pe6?! It probably would have been better to develop a piece such as the Bishop on c1.

A little later in the game at after Black's 17th move we have this strange position for the MCGE as white:
[fen]r4r1k/pp4bp/2p2np1/3qn3/3p4/8/PPPQBPPP/R1BN1RK1 w - - 2 18[/fen]
It looks almost as if White has not moved, its pieces are just not developed!
I would have to say the MCGE was clueless in this game.
Black however, has control of the centre and looks in a far better position.

The Magellan deserved to win this game.

That brings the score to 5.5 - 2.5 to the MCGE Regards
Ray
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Post by paulwise3 »

Thanx for these games Ray!
Since a few months I am also a happy owner of the Magellan, and it is one of my favorites!

Tournament regards,
Paul
2024 Special thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12741
2024 Special results and standings: https://schaakcomputers.nl/paul_w/Tourn ... 25_06.html
If I am mistaken, it must be caused by a horizon effect...
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Yarc
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Post by Yarc »

paulwise3 wrote:Thanx for these games Ray!
Since a few months I am also a happy owner of the Magellan, and it is one of my favorites!

Tournament regards,
Paul
I am enjoying this match for two reasons. One, despite the big difference in hardware, it shows that the Magellan is still very good. Secondly, it is also showing that the faster hardware has made a large improvement on the ChessGenius engine.

It makes me wonder how well the Magellan might peform if it were running at 300MHz instead of 20MHz. Maybe it would scale up well, or maybe not; Either way, it is a nice machine and I am not surprised that you like it.

I have just completed game 9 and will publish it soon. The final game in this match is underway and is turning out to be a real battle!

Exciting match Regards
Ray
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Post by Scally »

Yarc wrote: It makes me wonder how well the Magellan might peform if it were running at 300MHz instead of 20MHz.

Ray
Yes, maybe it’s a contender for the next Revelation II Emulation on faster hardware?

I’ve always wanted this Engine, but it seems to be an expensive module, there’s one on eBay at the moment for the best part of £600 incl postage.


Cheers,

Al.
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Post by Yarc »

Here is game 9.

This is the longest game so far at 83 moves, the second longest at 80 was played in the second game of the match. They opened with the Petrov, Cozio(Lasker) Attack:

[Event "40m/2h MCGE v Magellan Champion Book"]
[Date "2018.01.09"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Magellan"]
[Black "MCGE"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C42"]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Qe2 Qe7 6.d3 Nf6 7.Bg5 Be6 8.Nd4 Nc6 9.Nxc6 bxc6 10.Nc3 h6 11.Bc1 Rb8 12.Qd2 d5 13.Be2 Qb4 14.Nd1 Bd6 15.Qxb4 Bxb4+ 16.c3 Bd6 17.Be3 c5 18.d4 c4 19.b3 cxb3 20.axb3 Rxb3 21.Rxa7 O-O 22.Bd3 Re8 23.h3 Ne4 24.Bc2 Rbb8 25.f3 Ng3 26.Rg1 Ra8 27.Rxa8 Rxa8 28.Kd2 Ra2 29.Kc1 Ne2+ 30.Kb1 Ra3 31.Re1 Nxc3+ 32.Nxc3 Rxc3 33.Kb2 Bb4 34.Re2 Rc6 35.Bd3 g5 36.Kb3 Rb6 37.Kc2 Bd7 38.Bf2 Ba4+ 39.Kb2 Bd6+ 40.Ka2 c6 41.Re8+ Kg7 42.Rd8 Bb3+ 43.Kb2 Bc4+ 44.Kc2 Ba3 45.Bxc4 Rb2+ 46.Kc3 Rxf2 47.Bb3 Rxg2 48.Ba4 Rg3 49.Bxc6 Rxf3+ 50.Kd2 Rxh3 51.Rxd5 Bc1+ 52.Kxc1 Rc3+ 53.Kd2 Rxc6 54.Rb5 Kg6 55.d5 Rd6 56.Kd3 Rd8 57.Rb6+ f6 58.Ke4 h5 59.d6 h4 60.Kd5 h3 61.Rb1 g4 62.Rh1 f5 63.Kc6 f4 64.Kc7 Rf8 65.d7 g3 66.d8=Q Rxd8 67.Kxd8 g2 68.Rxh3 g1=Q 69.Rd3 Kf5 70.Rd7 f3 71.Rc7 Kg6 72.Rc6+ Kf7 73.Rc7+ Kf8 74.Rc6 Qd4+ 75.Kc8 f2 76.Rc1 Qf6 77.Rd1 Ke7 78.Rc1 f1=R 79.Rxf1 Qxf1 80.Kb7 Kd6 81.Kb6 Qb1+ 82.Ka5 Kc5 83.Ka4 Qa2# 0-1

Final position:
[fen]8/8/8/2k5/K7/8/q7/8 w - - 8 84[/fen]

At move 78 the MCGE announced mate in 7 with its move 78. .... f1=R, but it ended before then!
[fen]2K5/4k3/5q2/8/8/8/5p2/2R5 w - - 5 78[/fen]

There was one blunder(according to Stockfish) by White at move 52:
[fen]8/5pk1/2B4p/3R2p1/3P4/7r/3K4/2b5 w - - 1 52[/fen]
Here the Magellan played 52. KxB.
Stockfish was able to look 53 ply ahead and see that this move was a loss for White! I think this was a blunder through lack of processing power, so not fair to mark the Magellan down on this!

A tough battle, but the MCGE out-calculated the Magellan and from the following position at move 67 showed that it was not worried about Whites Rook with its Pawns marching up the board!
[fen]3K4/8/6k1/8/5p2/6pp/8/7R w - - 0 67[/fen]

Current score 6.5 - 2.5 Regards
Ray
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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

Playing 40/2hrs is a tough slog you are doing well there.

To not lose patience nowadays I typically stick to 60/30 (30 seconds per move) and I have to play two games simultaneously to keep my mind on the games. :P

Best regards
Nick
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Yarc
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Post by Yarc »

Scally wrote: I’ve always wanted this Engine, but it seems to be an expensive module, there’s one on eBay at the moment for the best part of £600 incl postage.


Cheers,

Al.
Ouch! That is expensive. It's a good module, but that seems a little steep especially when you can get an MCGE for around £500.

I paid something like £700 for the Magellan module in an Exclusive housing, but this was a good 15 years ago.

Overpriced Regards
Ray
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