Hiarcs (Colorodo-King) Vs .INFO(MV-King)

[spacious_mind]

is there an estimated rating for the MV Personality??

The Match Continues Regards
Steve

ELO Steve,

The only reference to an ELO for the MV personality I have found is on the German forum. This was a BT-2630 performed back in September 2018 when The King was sill in beta so not much use I'm afraid. The result of the test for MV was then 2550 ELO.

https://www.schachcomputer.info/forum/s ... 647&page=6

Shrouded in mystery Regards
Ray

You have to remember that BT2630 means that the max you can achieve is 2630 ELO so if you ran Stockfish it might not even reach 2630 because there is possibility that it might choose another move in one of those tests. The BT Tests were written when the best computer was running at 2400 ELO and there is a possibility that some of these test positions may not be 100% accurate today as to the right move.

Exactly, this is why I said the rating is not much use. It was maybe okay for the Beta version of TheKing, but now with release version and any improvements that has made coupled with these custom personalities reaching over 2600, the BT-2630 is out of date.

So we don't really know at the moment what ELO the MV personality has. We might get some idea after the current match. It was level 2 - 2 the last time I looked, but it's too soon to draw any conclusions.

Regards
Ray

We would need to play a tournament and include other programs that have a rating. But even then it is difficult because the only measure you have is SSDF's Revelation Rybka, Shredder and Hiarcs. And even these are not 100% comparable because if you study the games they played, all they did was play 6 PC programs a multiple amount of times to get that rating.

Not enough opponents.

ps... Micha and I discussed while playing Saturday that we might do that later add programs and make it a league or tournament.

Regards

[Yarc]

We would need to play a tournament and include other programs that have a rating. But even then it is difficult because the only measure you have is SSDF's Revelation Rybka, Shredder and Hiarcs. And even these are not 100% comparable because if you study the games they played, all they did was play 6 PC programs a multiple amount of times to get that rating.

Not enough opponents.

ps... Micha and I discussed while playing Saturday that we might do that latter add programs and make it a league or tournament.

Regards

Agree, and the league or tournament with multiple programs would certainly make rating estimates more accurate.

I have mentioned before that I tried pitting Hiarcs PC set to a specific ELO against the MCGE but something did not quite add up. Even with Hiarcs PC set to 2200 it was still much stronger than the Lang module which is something like 2400. I was hoping to test the modules this way, but it doesn't seem sensible now.

Regards
Ray

[Steve B]

Here is the fourth game of the match and second game at 30 seconds per move.

So the match as it stands now is:
1 Min Avg-Hiarcs 1.5-.INFO .5
30 Sec. Avg.-.INFO 1.5-Hiarcs .5

As these are best of 5 matches...

if either Hiarcs or .INFO gets to 3 pts (in the next two games)will the matches be over or will
you play at least 5 games anyway
has that been decided?

the difference is really only a few games so if not decided yet I would vote to play it out but I realize its the operators time being invested here

Rules Committee Regards
Steve

[spacious_mind]

Here is the fourth game of the match and second game at 30 seconds per move.

So the match as it stands now is:
1 Min Avg-Hiarcs 1.5-.INFO .5
30 Sec. Avg.-.INFO 1.5-Hiarcs .5

As these are best of 5 matches...

if either Hiarcs or .INFO gets to 3 pts (in the next two games)will the matches be over or will
you play at least 5 games anyway
has that been decided?

the difference is really only a few games so if not decided yet I would vote to play it out but I realize its the operators time being invested here

Rules Committee Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

We have changed it to best of 12. 6 each for 30S and 1 minute to keep it equal.

Regards

[Steve B]

Here is the fourth game of the match and second game at 30 seconds per move.

So the match as it stands now is:
1 Min Avg-Hiarcs 1.5-.INFO .5
30 Sec. Avg.-.INFO 1.5-Hiarcs .5

As these are best of 5 matches...

if either Hiarcs or .INFO gets to 3 pts (in the next two games)will the matches be over or will
you play at least 5 games anyway
has that been decided?

the difference is really only a few games so if not decided yet I would vote to play it out but I realize its the operators time being invested here

Rules Committee Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

We have changed it to best of 12. 6 each for 30S and 1 minute to keep it equal.

Regards

best of 12 now?
was there an announcement of this anywhere?

Stumped Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

Hi,

At the moment, both of my King Modules are working fine.
As I‘m active at both forums , i could play some matches for the Hiarcs team.
Best time for me to play would be after 21:30 CET. On weekends perhaps early in the morning, too.

Ralf

Ralf
Are you still interested in playing some 1 min games?
2 games have been played already and the number of games have now been increased from 5 to 12
Let Me Know Regards
Steve

[spacious_mind]

Here is the fourth game of the match and second game at 30 seconds per move.

So the match as it stands now is:
1 Min Avg-Hiarcs 1.5-.INFO .5
30 Sec. Avg.-.INFO 1.5-Hiarcs .5

As these are best of 5 matches...

if either Hiarcs or .INFO gets to 3 pts (in the next two games)will the matches be over or will
you play at least 5 games anyway
has that been decided?

the difference is really only a few games so if not decided yet I would vote to play it out but I realize its the operators time being invested here

Rules Committee Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

We have changed it to best of 12. 6 each for 30S and 1 minute to keep it equal.

Regards

best of 12 now?
was there an announcement of this anywhere?

Stumped Regards
Steve

Yes sorry it took me a while yesterday to put the game post together so forgot to mention that in order to play the same opening as white and black 5 games don't work.

[spacious_mind]

Here is a revision to the match which has increased to best of 12 games to allow the programs to play the same opening as white and as black:

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Best regards

[Steve B]

Yes sorry it took me a while yesterday to put the game post together so forgot to mention that in order to play the same opening as white and black 5 games don't work.

Just trying to keep this a Team Forum event
I reached out to Ralf to see if he can get in some games

Lichess server is bad enough where kibitzers cant communicate with players not to mention undisclosed rule changes (such as both sides will play the same openings or increasing the number of games )
all of this detracts from the team concept
the goal of this match is two fold :
A)determine which personality is stronger
and just as importantly ..
B)attempt to build a friendly bridge between forums
the more inclusive the match is the better.the more disclosure about rule changes etc the better

remember Nick...the team concept was your idea in the first place

I do realize you are doing all of the heavy lifting here ...The Colorado personality is your creation and you are playing all of the games so far ..but I can be of help if you don't have time to make important match announcements or scheduling game times for other team members(if any)

Best Regards
Steve

[spacious_mind]

Yes sorry it took me a while yesterday to put the game post together so forgot to mention that in order to play the same opening as white and black 5 games don't work.

Just trying to keep this a Team Forum event
I reached out to Ralf to see if he can get in some games

Lichess server is bad enough where kibitzers cant communicate with players not to mention undisclosed rule changes (such as both sides will play the same openings or increasing the number of games )
all of this detracts from the team concept
the goal of this match is two fold :
A)determine which personality is stronger
and just as importantly ..
B)attempt to build a friendly bridge between forums
the more inclusive the match is the better.the more disclosure about rule changes etc the better

remember Nick...the team concept was your idea in the first place

I do realize you are doing all of the heavy lifting here ...The Colorado personality is your creation and you are playing all of the games so far ..but I can be of help if you don't have time to make important match announcements or scheduling game times for other team members(if any)

Best Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

I agree. I offered for Ralf to play some games. He was arranging some games to play this week as far as I know. Hopefully Ralf will update the Forum with what he has arranged. I can't do that for him as I don't know what arrangements he is making with regards to day and time.

Best regards

[Steve B]

I agree. I offered for Ralf to play some games. He was arranging some games to play this week as far as I know. Hopefully Ralf will update the Forum with what he has arranged. I can't do that for him as I don't know what arrangements he is making with regards to day and time.

Thanks Nick
I forgot to mention...
along with Colorado being your creation and you playing the games ..you are posting EXCELLENT game analysis after each game..very enjoyable to read

Giving Credit When Credit is Due Regards
Steve

[Rhglomb]

Ralf
Are you still interested in playing some 1 min games?
2 games have been played already and the number of games have now been increased from 5 to 12
Let Me Know Regards
Steve

Hi,

ofcourse i'm interested in playing some games.
Sascha told me that he is busy this week. I hope he will contact me.
And Micha wrote that he first wanted to play the games against you, Nick. So i'm just waiting for some information how to proceed.


Sacha, Micha:
Best time to play for me is always in the evening (starting from 21:00 CET ), but make a suggestion and I'll check what can be done. On Fridays sometimes i can play in the morning till noon.
On weekends i'm a little more flexible regarding appointments. Just make a suggestion.

Another thing is:

Thanks Nick
I forgot to mention...
along with Colorado being your creation and you playing the games ..you are posting EXCELLENT game analysis after each game..very enjoyable to read

Unfortunately, I cannot provide such beautiful analyses due to my lack of know-how. That is of course a pity somewhere. Therefore I could already understand if I am not the ideal game partner for these games. That is why I do not want to push for it. But I am at your disposal.


Ralf

P.S:
I played some matches on my own, one King against the other, but this is not in the sense of this competition, i think.

[Steve B]

Thanks Ralf

there is no requirement to write an analysis after each game
the only requirement to play for the team is to ..WIN the game..


Just Kidding


I will alert Sascha and make a post in the .info thread for your suggested playing times
Best Regards
Steve

[fourthirty]

We had planned to use the Hiarcs book but Micha forgot to set it and had used the Aegon book. Which went out of book a little too early for sure and both computers were out of book after the move 5. Bf4 in the Aegon book. Black played 5. ... Qb6 for its 1st out of book move. Hiarcs book would have continued with . ... Be6 instead of the Qb6 move. Anyway we had planned to play the same opening with both personalities as we thought it would be interesting to really compare the two different styles in same game situations

Hi Nick - thank you so much for playing these games and your summary of each round! Just curious - In Game 1 - did the King of Colorado also play with the Aegon book, or was it using the HIARCS book (and the Aegon moved forced the King of Colorado out of book)?

Greg

[chessguru]

Game day! After 2 disappointing games, we’ll be facing for our 3rd round of the tournament.


The next 2 games...

Wednesday, 20.30 CET (Germany time) - 13.30 Central Time (USA)

Server: https://lichess.org/team/schachcomputerinfo


rhglomb (Ralf - HIARCS Team) vs. Kogge (Micha - Info Team)

Level: 30 sec. per move