DGT Centaur first impressions

[Schachspieler]

@Schachspieler

Thank you for your explanation of the adaptive process but can you explain if setting the Centaur to Expert mode makes any difference.
I have observed in a number of games against computer opposition that Centaur does not always make the optimal moves it is capable of and thus ends up in a losing position.
I have tried a reset which presumably removes all the stored information from previous games but Centaur still on occasions makes less than optimal moves.
As far as I can see it is not possible to get Centaur to play its best move in all positions during a game and thus is at a disadvantage when playing computer opposition.
Two other questions if you will : -
Why in Expert Mode does it take so long making its initial moves?
I know it has an extensive book so why take so long (In a recent G in 5 it used 1 minute thinking time just to get out of book)

First of all I have to thank you for these very good questions. Normal chesscomputers aswer instantly, as long they're in the book. With the DGT Centaur it is a little different. The adjustment of the playing-strength is not starting after the book moves, it starts with the first move. With every move you make, the Centaur has to decide, whart kind of opening-line he will play. It is easier to create tactical chances in open games than in closed games. And it its easier to create positional chances in closed structures. This adjustment after each move takes some seconds.

In Analysis mode if you press the hint button it takes up to about 10 secs to display its 3 best moves. Why does the evaluation of the position and maybe the moves not change in time like a conventional computer?
Please do not think I am being critical of the Centaur, I'm just trying to understand what is going on.

In anticipation of your reply,

Thank you!

Regards,

Keith

After you pressed the Hint-Button, the Centaur takes 10 seconds to evaluate the next moves. It shows you the three best moves (Opinion of Stockfish). If you deactivate the board in the Display-Settings, it will show you a lot of more next-best-moves.

It just takes 10 seconds analysing-time for a position, because it takes a lot of power, would it analyse the infinite. The Battery would be hold only a few hours. For a normal chessplayer, the Result after a 10 secs analyse is enough, for good results. This is the reason, why the best-moves in the display are not changing. For myself I would like to see the search-depth in the display. I criticised this point at DGT.

[xchessg]

@Schachspieler

Thank you for your explanation of the adaptive process but can you explain if setting the Centaur to Expert mode makes any difference.
I have observed in a number of games against computer opposition that Centaur does not always make the optimal moves it is capable of and thus ends up in a losing position.
I have tried a reset which presumably removes all the stored information from previous games but Centaur still on occasions makes less than optimal moves.
As far as I can see it is not possible to get Centaur to play its best move in all positions during a game and thus is at a disadvantage when playing computer opposition.
Two other questions if you will : -
Why in Expert Mode does it take so long making its initial moves?
I know it has an extensive book so why take so long (In a recent G in 5 it used 1 minute thinking time just to get out of book)

The adjustment of the playing-strength is not starting after the book moves, it starts with the first move. (…) This adjustment after each move takes some seconds.

I'm gettig confused. Does this mean that the Centaur is ALWAYS in adaptive mode? Regardless wether you put it in friendly or expert or what have you. I would expect the DGT to give it's best in expert mode.

I always tend to play against the strongest setting myself. There's always the take back option. And if the engine takes me apart, so be it: No public allowed...

Chess the SM way regards

Xavier

[Schachspieler]

@Schachspieler

Thank you for your explanation of the adaptive process but can you explain if setting the Centaur to Expert mode makes any difference.
I have observed in a number of games against computer opposition that Centaur does not always make the optimal moves it is capable of and thus ends up in a losing position.
I have tried a reset which presumably removes all the stored information from previous games but Centaur still on occasions makes less than optimal moves.
As far as I can see it is not possible to get Centaur to play its best move in all positions during a game and thus is at a disadvantage when playing computer opposition.
Two other questions if you will : -
Why in Expert Mode does it take so long making its initial moves?
I know it has an extensive book so why take so long (In a recent G in 5 it used 1 minute thinking time just to get out of book)

The adjustment of the playing-strength is not starting after the book moves, it starts with the first move. (…) This adjustment after each move takes some seconds.

I'm gettig confused. Does this mean that the Centaur is ALWAYS in adaptive mode? Regardless wether you put it in friendly or expert or what have you. I would expect the DGT to give it's best in expert mode.

I always tend to play against the strongest setting myself. There's always the take back option. And if the engine takes me apart, so be it: No public allowed...

Chess the SM way regards

Xavier

On Expert, the DGT Centaur still tries to play like very human-like on a very high level. Most Grandmasters will lose at this Expert-Level, but not the way they would lose like against pure Stockfish.

[Schachspieler]

At this point a few words to the review and Sascha. With the video itself, you provided the proof that your last LED image has absolutely nothing to do with reality. The differences between the video and the picture are significant. The answer to the question of why you publish a picture in which you see exactly that this has nothing to do with reality, you have not answered.

In your forum you have written a post in which you respond to the allegations. You deny that you made changes to the last picture, but did not publish the last picture you published here in your forum.

You write in your review that you would recognize coils on the board. I wrote here that you can not see any coils because the Centaur has no coils.

In your forum, you now claim that I said you would not see anything. You do not write anything more about coils in your forum.

To the perfectly played games of MV you write only that no engine was used and that everyone can check for themselves. Very smart.
The DGT Centaur is about playing and I have to be very surprised that you have not analyzed the two games with your own words. What was good in the games and what was bad?

Although you also praise some things of the DGT Cebntaur in your review, but that's just an alibi. Pictures say more than a thousand words. You're not making any pictures of a chess computer for the first time in your life. You've never held a chess computer in front of a monitor and taken a picture. Why are you doing that with the DGT Centaur? What is the value of such an image for the reader? You're showing pictures of the LEDs that definitely have nothing to do with reality. Why are you doing this? The games of MV are definitely not played by a human. Especially the second game does not show how exciting human games are against the Centaur.


Watch your video and look at the LED image you have posted. Everyone sees the differences! You too! This is a simple fact. In the games, you can just deny everything. Not everyone has the opportunity to show a grandmaster the games and get his opinion. But in the pictures and the video, it is obvious to everyone.

I would like to tell you the following. You constructed the "Review". You posted the unrealistic pictures. You gave us these perfect MV-games.
If you expect all these things to remain uncommented, then you are wrong.

As Steve rightly said, you have the right to comment on these matters.

[Wixxy]

@Schachspieler
Well written response.
Thank you

[Chessnut]

+1

[BHGP]

@Schachspieler
Well written response.
Thank you

Schachspieler is number one in Germany for dealing with DGT-products.
I have doubts about his objectivity, especially in combination with his aggressiveness in this and other forums.

[Steve B]

@Schachspieler
Well written response.
Thank you

Schachspieler is number one in Germany for dealing with DGT-products.
I have doubts about his objectivity, especially in combination with his aggressiveness in this and other forums.

it is no secret here that Benny is involved with a dealer of DGT
I have said so several times and he has not denied this
I have also pointed out his opinions would be influenced by this business relationship..he has also not denied this
we have had other dealers post here in the past such as Chess House
due to his connections he is also in a unique position to answer many questions regarding the Centaur which as you see there are many

Sometimes its Good To Go To The Source Regards
Steve

[Schachspieler]



Schachspieler is number one in Germany for dealing with DGT-products.

Thank You for the flowers

PS:
When will your incredibly objective and unselfish buddy Sascha explain to the community, why he spreads fake photos of the Centaur?

[Bussbaer]

Schachspieler, why are your comments always so agressive? calm down. It seems, you have some personal problems with some members here. But, hey, I’mjust interested in Dgt Centaur, and want to learn something about it. But what I read, especially from you, is in my opinion over the top and , I have to say it, very arrogant.
But thats just my opinion

[Steve B]

Schachspieler, why are your comments always so agressive? calm down. It seems, you have some personal problems with some members here. But, hey, I’mjust interested in Dgt Centaur, and want to learn something about it. But what I read, especially from you, is in my opinion over the top and , I have to say it, very arrogant.
But thats just my opinion

I notice a new influx of membership all of a sudden
I do not like this ganging up on a member here by new members
the thread is locked and the moderation team will decide what to do with it

Steve