Be aware - very aware - Chessmaster for Nintendo DS

[Monsieur Plastique]

As some might know, I have been collecting the Chessmaster series for Nintendo handhelds. In my collection I have an older version of Chessmaster for Gameboy Colour plus a later version for Gameboy Advance. I consider both of these programs to be extremely competant - they play good, solid, humanlike chess, though the Gameboy Colour version is handicapped by a very slow 8 Mhz Z80A equivalant processor (I estimate it's playing strength to be around 1500 ELO).

The Gameboy Advance version has been my favourite - I estimate after having had it play many games that it's true ELO rating is somewhere in the very high 1800s. It even managed an even score (one win, one loss and a draw) in three games against the Mephisto Amsterdam program (as seen in it's Chess Genius version for Palm).

A family member recently loaned me their Nintendo DS Lite, so of course the first thing I did was buy the latest version of Chessmaster (Chessmaster, The Art of Learning).

Upon loading the program onto the DS Lite I was impressed by the sleek interface, nice graphics and the ease of use through being able to accomplish absolutely everything with only the use of a stylus. I have actually been looking for quite some time to find a program that has excellent graphics on a largish screen in a handheld. OK, I have HIARCS for my Palm, but my Palm is getting on and soon the battery will give out. Apart from that, the screen really is very small and low in resolution, but it was a good "starter" handheld. Because of my musculo-skeletal problems, it's no longer possible for me to play long games of chess sitting at a table - 10 minute games are OK, but not much more than that. So the great thing about a handheld with superb graphics is that one can play a serious game against it whilst lying flat on a bed.

That is where the good ends - everything else about this program is bad. It all started when after creating my user profle, I jumped straight into a game against the Chessmaster himself, highest difficulty level, 15 minutes per game. After the machine responded 1...c5 to my 1. e4, I stopped the game just to explore the openings book a little.

Well, that wouldn't have mattered, because no matter what, this program will only play 1...c5 against 1. e4. And for 1. d5, it will never reply anything other than 1...Nf6. And to 2. c4, nothing ever, apart from 2...g6. OK, so these are solid moves, but it makes the old Par Excellence opens book look like a veritable smorgasboard of endless variety. The thing is though, it actually knows a huge number of lines - it's just that what it plays where it has any choice in the matter is unbelievably limited.

At the same time I consulted the owner's manual for some sort of "randomiser" function, I looked for the program credits. Why so soon? Because after I mated the thing within 20 moves with only 3 minutes of my times used I wondered what Johan de Koening was smoking when he wrote this thing.

Well, there are no credits published in the manual - they can only be accessed from the program itself - and even then it is an incredibly fast-scrolling list of names (perhaps they are too embarassed for you to know who is behind this program). After running through the credits several times, I failed to find de Koening's name anywhere - infact any "credit" for the chess engine goes to someone else.

So it looks like Chessmaster for Gameboy Advance was the last "serious" Chessmaster program for a handheld and perhaps the last to have Johan de Keoning listed on the chess engine credits.

Put frankly, this latest program for the DS program is an absolute disaster and anyone with the remotest bit of chess competency should ster well clear of it. Disregard all comments on the internet from people who say the chess engine is strong. It isn't. It is pathetically weak and plays the most disastrous positional chess imaginable. It has absolutely no idea about King safety and seems to have a very selective (though relatively deep) search that simply misses too much.

If you do want a chess program for your Nintendo, then try to find a copy of the older version for Gameboy Advance. It will still work in your DS and it will play a very competant game - about as strong as the 4 Mhz Mephisto Exclusive IV program.

[Steve B]

Hmmm
i wonder how your Game Boy Advance would fair against the Sharper Image Phantom Chess! Robot?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 922174592/

1700 Ish Regards
Steve

[Dylan Sharp]

Maybe it's part of the new politic in videogames: "make the game as easy as possible." Some old classic games have been re-released for the public of this generation, with enhanced graphics and features, only, that they're much easier to play and beat than their original versions released some 20 years ago.

Most experienced gamers agree that the videogames from the new generations are much shorter and easier to beat than older games, and that programmers are focusing in better graphics and more realistic gameplay instead of a fun game. Give an old, classic videogame to a gamer of the new generation and he'll find it extremely hard to beat, but will have lots of fun.

In this case, perhaps the latest serious chessmaster for Nintendo was too hard to beat for casual gamers, so they ditched it for a much weaker engine in hopes to give the inexperienced chess users an easier game.

[Cubeman]

I too, have personal experience of both the Nintendo ChessMaster for GBA and DS.The bad thing for GBA was that it took ages to enter a move with the cursor controls and the pieces move across the screen at snails pace, the training options were much less too.Skill wise I have to agree that GBA version was stronger and also the piece set was better.
The DS version has the luxury of touch imput and has good mini-games which my daughter prefers to play than the real game There is only one choice of chess set which I find quite ugly.Also to get to play a game from inserting the cartrige requires alot of sub menus.
But you have to remember that these Nintendo versions are designed for children and beginners so it does not matter if GBA can beat DS since if a child gets up to that level of beating the ChessMaster personality then they are ready and good enough to move on to other chess sytems.

[Monsieur Plastique]

Hmmm
i wonder how your Game Boy Advance would fair against the Sharper Image Phantom Chess! Robot?

Hi Steve,

I'm not sure how much stronger the new Phantom is compared to the Deluxe Talking and Alexandria. Do you have any concrete information or have you done any hardcore testing? Actually I have been meaning to ask if that time control bug (time overstep) in the DT and Alex has been addressed in the Phantom.

Anyway, I can say that in a ten game match at 40 in 2, my Gameboy Advance Micro defeated Deluxe Talking 8.5 - 1.5.

Massacre Regards

[Monsieur Plastique]

I too, have personal experience of both the Nintendo ChessMaster for GBA and DS.The bad thing for GBA was that it took ages to enter a move with the cursor controls and the pieces move across the screen at snails pace, the training options were much less too.Skill wise I have to agree that GBA version was stronger and also the piece set was better.
The DS version has the luxury of touch imput and has good mini-games which my daughter prefers to play than the real game There is only one choice of chess set which I find quite ugly.Also to get to play a game from inserting the cartrige requires alot of sub menus.
But you have to remember that these Nintendo versions are designed for children and beginners so it does not matter if GBA can beat DS since if a child gets up to that level of beating the ChessMaster personality then they are ready and good enough to move on to other chess sytems.

I pretty much agree with all of that, but I did have an expectation (hope) that the new version would be at least as strong as the old. I agree getting through the menus into a game is a pain too, but once you are there, I liked it (though yes, there should have been piece and board choices).

I have already sold my copy on eBay and I included a very clear warning the program was only for raw or slightly experienced beginners. It got snapped up pretty fast, though I priced it as a near-giveaway.

[Monsieur Plastique]

In this case, perhaps the latest serious chessmaster for Nintendo was too hard to beat for casual gamers, so they ditched it for a much weaker engine in hopes to give the inexperienced chess users an easier game.

Well the "new" version had a very "Nintendo DS" flavour about it. The DS Lite belongs to my mother and she has those brain training programs. I've tried these and the Chessmaster felt very much of a similar mold. If it had actually been part of the"Brain Training" Nintendo franchise, I would not have been at all suprised. It's more that than chess to be honest - and as was mentioned, you almost have to bury yourself deep into the menus to get a classical game at the highest difficulty level.

[Steve B]

Hi Steve,

I'm not sure how much stronger the new Phantom is compared to the Deluxe Talking and Alexandria. Do you have any concrete information or have you done any hardcore testing? Actually I have been meaning to ask if that time control bug (time overstep) in the DT and Alex has been addressed in the Phantom.

Anyway, I can say that in a ten game match at 40 in 2, my Gameboy Advance Micro defeated Deluxe Talking 8.5 - 1.5.

Massacre Regards

some testing Jon yes
played several games with the Phantom, DTTC and Alexandra ..each playing the same computer .
i had all three computers set up next to each other and played them against another computer ..since none of them ponder.. the slight delay in idle times while i completed the triad of moves ..made no difference..
seems clear to me that the DTTC and Phantom have exactly the same programs and are playing at exactly the same speeds
the two played all games exactly the same
however i did find that Alexandra seems to be running at about 10% slower then the other two which makes a difference in longer games and longer time controls

sadly i play all games at Avg time per move levels because i dont want a game lost on a sudden death time control
so no info on that

8.5-1.5??
No Way Jose Regards
Steve

[Monsieur Plastique]

Thanks Steve,

Well I have been thinking about a Phantom or 2Robot and my leanings are now to the 2Robot. I have seen it in action on youtube and it strikes me as a very nice piece of engineering. It seems nice and quiet too. The Phantom seems to grate and groan a bit. I think that sound would irritate me after a while, whereas I could happily use / watch the 2Robot all day.

As for that match, don't forget that the Gameboy Advance is a genuine De Koening program mainly handicapped by a lack of hash tables and some other compromises to get it to fit into the required architecture / memory limits. But we know what de Koening programs are capable of and it remains my favourite opponent of all my machines (and by far the most human-like).

[Steve B]

Thanks Steve,

Well I have been thinking about a Phantom or 2Robot and my leanings are now to the 2Robot. I have seen it in action on youtube and it strikes me as a very nice piece of engineering. It seems nice and quiet too. The Phantom seems to grate and groan a bit. I think that sound would irritate me after a while, whereas I could happily use / watch the 2Robot all day.

As for that match, don't forget that the Gameboy Advance is a genuine De Koening program mainly handicapped by a lack of hash tables and some other compromises to get it to fit into the required architecture / memory limits. But we know what de Koening programs are capable of and it remains my favourite opponent of all my machines (and by far the most human-like).

the 2Robot is suppose to have the Star Beryl program but that was what i was told about a year ago
there seems to be a deafening silence coming from Novag on the 2Robot all of a sudden ..so who knows what program it will ship with
one concern about the arm movement of the 2Robot is that the arm does not move like the Adversary
it does not pick up a piece ..move it and then return to base
rather.it picks up piece..returns to base ..places piece ..returns to base
more arm movement for each move which can be a bit distracting but i guess they thought this more reliable for quality control??

the Phantom is a very loud computer so you are right on the money as usual

just teasing a bit with the Gameboy advance
as you know i am clueless when it comes to those machines

Clueless In Seattle Regards
Steve

[Monsieur Plastique]

I thought the 2Robot had already begun shipping in the US. Am I incorrect here? Places I have looked at claim they have stock. I have not bought one though because our current exchange rate makes US purchases very unattractive I'm afraid. Plus Par was considering bringing in a few of them last time I spoke with him.

Are you going to buy one? I thought we could compare notes with my Star Beryl and see if they make the same moves on the same levels. It should not be hard to tell if they are the same program given it is unlikely to think on it's opponent's time (as per Beryl).

EDIT: Sorry - I took a closer look. They are now saying in stock soon. So where are all these youtube videos coming from?

[Steve B]

I thought the 2Robot had already begun shipping in the US. Am I incorrect here? Places I have looked at claim they have stock. I have not bought one though because our current exchange rate makes US purchases very unattractive I'm afraid. Plus Par was considering bringing in a few of them last time I spoke with him.

Are you going to buy one? I thought we could compare notes with my Star Beryl and see if they make the same moves on the same levels. It should not be hard to tell if they are the same program given it is unlikely to think on it's opponent's time (as per Beryl).

EDIT: Sorry - I took a closer look. They are now saying in stock soon. So where are all these youtube videos coming from?

yes i will be buying one (perhaps two if they release them in different color schemes)
if/when i do get one i will certainly compare notes with you before you buy one
several distributors have received a demo model of the Robot so i guess the videos are from them?
i know the USCF has a demo and wrote a small article about it in this months Chess Life mag
fairly certain no one has them for sale yet though..

IRobot Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

well Jon ..it seems the Novag 2Robot is actually shipping in the US
In perusing the Specs for the 2Robot that is shipping , i notice Novag has rated it at 1850 USCF which is 100 points higher then their rating for the Star Beryl
all of the other specs are the same as the SB(level settings,mate in 6,25 takeback.etc.etc.)
in fact the specs match exactly with their newly released Star Aquamarine
so perhaps they did provide the Robot with a stronger program then originally planned

I shall be timing my purchase of it to coincide with the Xmas break where i will have some time to study it in greater depth
also,as they are selling here for about $225-$250 ..i would like to see if new ones pop up on Ebay for a bit less
normally i never worry about the price of a new Schachcomputer.. but in this near Depression economy.. one must adjust ones normal habits accordingly


Belt Tightening Regards
Steve

[Monsieur Plastique]

Hi Steve,

My Star Beryl box states 1850 USCF, but yes - I have seen different Novag ratings for these machines thrown around. It will not be too difficult to see if they are indeed the same program - first thing will be to see if the level structure is exactly the same as per the two manuals. Then a number of test positions of course.

As much as I love the Star Beryl program, I haven't ended up using it much because of the impossible to read display. I still have a Lexibook 4K sitting here ready for the World 4K Championship de Plastique, but the Beryl ergonomics drive me nuts. This is one reason for my interest in the 2Robot, apart from the fact that it seems like Novag have done a wonderful job with the mechanism and I am dying to see what my cat will think of it.

Slick-oiled Regards

[Steve B]

Hi Jon

well so much for my waiting until the run up to Xmas before ordering the Robot
i ordered it today ..i am weak
cost me $230 ..shipping included
it is coming from clear across the country so i probably wont get it for a few weeks anyway
when i do we will compare notes

you know ..i just couldn't wait because the Arm is so special
the last time a chess computer came out with an Arm for movement was more then 26 years ago..26 years..can you imagine?
i was in my 20's then..i had a full head of hair and i didnt even know how to play the piano back then
today i am in my 50's ..hair almost all gone...
still dont know how to play the Piano though Regards
Steve