ICT 9 - Leiden 2009 - Hiarcs Wins!

This forum is for general discussions and questions, including Collectors Corner and anything to do with Computer chess.

Moderators: Harvey Williamson, Steve B, Watchman

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the fen tag before the upgrade.
User avatar
Harvey Williamson
Site Admin
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:57 am
Location: Media City, UK
Contact:

ICT 9 - Leiden 2009 - Hiarcs Wins!

Post by Harvey Williamson »

Will be 5-7 June.
Last edited by Harvey Williamson on Sun May 31, 2015 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Harvey Williamson
Site Admin
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:57 am
Location: Media City, UK
Contact:

Re: Next Leiden Tournament

Post by Harvey Williamson »

Harvey Williamson wrote:Will be 5-7 June.
International CSVN Tournament
5-7 June 2009
Location is again "Leids Denksportcentrum", Robijnstraat 4, 2332 KE Leiden, The
Netherlands.
Programmers Tournament
The complete time schedule:
Friday 5 June 2009
11:50
location open
12:00-13:00
arrival, installation and opening
13:00-16:00
1st round
16:15-19:15
2nd round
19:30-22:30
3rd round
Saturday 6 June 2009
08:50
location open
09:00-09:45
arrival & installation
09:45-12:45
4th round
13:00-13:40
Member meeting CSVN
13:45-16:45
5th round
17:00-20:00
6th round
Sunday 7 June 2009
08:50
location open
09:00-09:45
arrival & installation
09:45-12:45
7th round
13:00-16:00
8th round
16:15-19:15
9th round (last)
19:20-20:00
Price ceremony

• The number of processor cores for running the program is restricted to 8 cores
(analog to the ICGA WCCC tournament in Pamplona 2009).
User avatar
Thomas Wallendik
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:31 pm
Location: 80687 München

Re: Next Leiden Tournament

Post by Thomas Wallendik »

Harvey Williamson wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:Will be 5-7 June.
International CSVN Tournament
5-7 June 2009
Location is again "Leids Denksportcentrum", Robijnstraat 4, 2332 KE Leiden, The
Netherlands.
Programmers Tournament
The complete time schedule:
Friday 5 June 2009
11:50
location open
12:00-13:00
arrival, installation and opening
13:00-16:00
1st round
16:15-19:15
2nd round
19:30-22:30
3rd round
Saturday 6 June 2009
08:50
location open
09:00-09:45
arrival & installation
09:45-12:45
4th round
13:00-13:40
Member meeting CSVN
13:45-16:45
5th round
17:00-20:00
6th round
Sunday 7 June 2009
08:50
location open
09:00-09:45
arrival & installation
09:45-12:45
7th round
13:00-16:00
8th round
16:15-19:15
9th round (last)
19:20-20:00
Price ceremony

• The number of processor cores for running the program is restricted to 8 cores
(analog to the ICGA WCCC tournament in Pamplona 2009).

Hi Harvey,

i wish Mark good luck and i think he wins the tournament or make the second place.

Best

Thomas
TW
User avatar
Harvey Williamson
Site Admin
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:57 am
Location: Media City, UK
Contact:

Post by Harvey Williamson »

Despite only a small number of entries. I think mainly due to the dates being so close to the WCCC in Pamplona this tournament will go ahead. As always there is a Users tournament alongside the main event. This year the Computers used will have a maximum ELO of 1700. I am sure Steve can let us know what might fit into this category. One interesting entrant will be the The Rybka Operator Hans van der Zijden with his own program called 'Gadget'
User avatar
Steve B
Site Admin
Posts: 10140
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
Location: New York City USofA
Contact:

Post by Steve B »

Harvey Williamson wrote:Despite only a small number of entries. I think mainly due to the dates being so close to the WCCC in Pamplona this tournament will go ahead. As always there is a Users tournament alongside the main event. This year the Computers used will have a maximum ELO of 1700. I am sure Steve can let us know what might fit into this category. One interesting entrant will be the The Rybka Operator Hans van der Zijden with his own program called 'Gadget'
aaah yes...the "Users" section of the Leiden tournament
better known as the Gebroikers section (in Dutch)
there are very many dedicated computers with an ELO of <1700 so there is no telling which computers will show up

Sadly ..only a few weeks ago a great Dutch collector of the old computers
...Tom Luif...passed away...i have heard rumors that perhaps this years event might pay tribute to Tom..not certain about that.. but it was mentioned to me as a possibility by another collector

Toms web site..

http://www.xs4all.nl/~tluif/chescom/Eng ... #collectie

Solemn Regards
Steve
User avatar
IA
Member
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:12 pm
Location: Spain

Post by IA »

One machine perfect that has this level of 1700 Elos is the Novag Super Vip, this machine has an excellent game and is very competed.

http://www.ismenio.com/chess_novag_super_vip.html

Regards …
User avatar
Harvey Williamson
Site Admin
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:57 am
Location: Media City, UK
Contact:

Post by Harvey Williamson »

So far only 7 entries in the main tournament Hiarcs Diep and Ktulu the top players. I hope the list will grow. It seems that although Rybka and Sjeng do not enter there is a proposed Cluster match Sjeng v Rybka - personally I do not see the point and see this as an attempt to undermine the main tournament and all the hard work of the volunteers who run the CSVN.

Sadly the small number of entries I think is largely due to the unavoidable clash with the dates of the WCCC. But if, a few, others do not enter because they fear a hardware limit and claim it handicaps them that is their loss.
User avatar
turbojuice1122
Senior Member
Posts: 2315
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:11 pm

Post by turbojuice1122 »

Harvey Williamson wrote:So far only 7 entries in the main tournament Hiarcs Diep and Ktulu the top players. I hope the list will grow. It seems that although Rybka and Sjeng do not enter there is a proposed Cluster match Sjeng v Rybka - personally I do not see the point and see this as an attempt to undermine the main tournament and all the hard work of the volunteers who run the CSVN.

Sadly the small number of entries I think is largely due to the unavoidable clash with the dates of the WCCC. But if, a few, others do not enter because they fear a hardware limit and claim it handicaps them that is their loss.
Both tournament and match will be interesting.
User avatar
Ted Summers
Member
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: Marietta, GA
Contact:

Post by Ted Summers »

Harvey Williamson wrote:So far only 7 entries in the main tournament Hiarcs Diep and Ktulu the top players. I hope the list will grow. It seems that although Rybka and Sjeng do not enter there is a proposed Cluster match Sjeng v Rybka - personally I do not see the point and see this as an attempt to undermine the main tournament and all the hard work of the volunteers who run the CSVN.

Sadly the small number of entries I think is largely due to the unavoidable clash with the dates of the WCCC. But if, a few, others do not enter because they fear a hardware limit and claim it handicaps them that is their loss.
I agree with Harvey on this one. If they want a Match why not host it by themselves if they are not going to play in the event? Still both events would be interesting, but I see no reason they should play on the sames dates and at the same event if they are not participants in the main event.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience come from bad decisions."
User avatar
Steve B
Site Admin
Posts: 10140
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
Location: New York City USofA
Contact:

Post by Steve B »

Harvey Williamson wrote:So far only 7 entries in the main tournament Hiarcs Diep and Ktulu the top players. I hope the list will grow. It seems that although Rybka and Sjeng do not enter......
the cluster side show aside...
i wonder why Rybka is skipping this years event?
Leiden is one of the Premiere CC events in the yearly tournament calendar

perhaps it was a bit shaken by the two draws it was forced to concede to Hiarcs and Shredder at the WCCC?

Hmmmm Regards
Steve
User avatar
turbojuice1122
Senior Member
Posts: 2315
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:11 pm

Post by turbojuice1122 »

I think that the simplest explanation is the correct one here. With a tournament not being given the (arbitrary?) name "world championship" also having a hardware handicap, there isn't much reason to enter something that would not be so interesting. From the perspective of those who have worked hard on developing techniques to improve hardware and take advantage of this improvement, the legitimate events would be those without such ridiculous handicaps, so they will have a very interesting match.

Of course, those involved would know a lot more than I would about this, but there have been no public indications that I have seen that this match would take place at the venue itself. If it did, then obviously it would be separate from the actual Leiden event because the sponsors would not recognize the match, so there would be no real problem.

I still think that the Hiarcs team needs to get together a cluster and create a version that could utilize this hardware and have a match against the Rybka team over Playchess. I think that I've been screaming for variations of this theme for much over a year now...
User avatar
Harvey Williamson
Site Admin
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:57 am
Location: Media City, UK
Contact:

Post by Harvey Williamson »

turbojuice1122 wrote:I think that the simplest explanation is the correct one here. With a tournament not being given the (arbitrary?) name "world championship" also having a hardware handicap, there isn't much reason to enter something that would not be so interesting. From the perspective of those who have worked hard on developing techniques to improve hardware and take advantage of this improvement, the legitimate events would be those without such ridiculous handicaps, so they will have a very interesting match.

Of course, those involved would know a lot more than I would about this, but there have been no public indications that I have seen that this match would take place at the venue itself. If it did, then obviously it would be separate from the actual Leiden event because the sponsors would not recognize the match, so there would be no real problem.

I still think that the Hiarcs team needs to get together a cluster and create a version that could utilize this hardware and have a match against the Rybka team over Playchess. I think that I've been screaming for variations of this theme for much over a year now...
I do not think it would make any sense to neglect our customers and work on a Cluster version. We have versions for PC, Mac, Palm, PPC, & iphone. Updating these and fixing bugs for customers is far more important than playing with a Cluster.
User avatar
turbojuice1122
Senior Member
Posts: 2315
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:11 pm

Post by turbojuice1122 »

In many cases, isn't working on a version that works on a cluster simply a good long-term investment? Of course, no special work was needed for some of the programs out there, so if such work is needed, one could consider that to be something that handicaps the program, particularly since machines with very high numbers of cores will be on the market within a couple of years.
User avatar
Harvey Williamson
Site Admin
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:57 am
Location: Media City, UK
Contact:

Post by Harvey Williamson »

turbojuice1122 wrote:In many cases, isn't working on a version that works on a cluster simply a good long-term investment? Of course, no special work was needed for some of the programs out there, so if such work is needed, one could consider that to be something that handicaps the program, particularly since machines with very high numbers of cores will be on the market within a couple of years.
It makes 0 commercial sense to work on this. I guess Vas can get away with working on his cluster rather than fixing bugs that are over a year old. I doubt any other serious Commercial author could at the moment.
User avatar
Watchman
Hiarcs Team Member
Posts: 874
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:51 am
Location: Indianapolis

Post by Watchman »

Every time I hear this word "handicap" from someone... well it's nigh revolting and it smacks of an attitude of poor sportsmanship. This talk of handicap is utter nonsense.

If there is any handicap it is self-imposed: Vas & Lukas (e.g.) pursued cluster development over MP development. They attempted a little innovation and were caught flat-footed by a tournament rule change. That is no one's fault but their own.

KOE (King of Engines) was run this year with a 4 core restriction. I didn't like having to take a $1600 cpu offline and not getting to see how Sjeng would perform in a tournament on all 8 cylinders. But no one knew how I felt (until this moment) because I wasn't about to piss and moan about something I could do nothing about. I wanted to participate, so I accepted the rule change... period. And "despite" the restriction, we did have a very interesting tournament.

Would it have been more interesting to have KOE with unlimited hardware? How could it be when you know what the result will be? Sure can be interesting to see Zap play on an unknown amount of cores (who the heck really knows how many cores besides Suj)... but that can be seen "anytime" on Playchess. But even then it loses much of its appeal as you don't see evals or know the actual hardware.

Several years ago when I was an elo-dieb at Playchess, it was quite fun to have Top-Tier hardware running Rybka and break 3000. And I think that is fine for anyone who wants to do that. However, if I was Tournament Director (or sponsor) I don't see how this, having such a large range in hardware capability, helps promote Computer Chess, makes things “more interesting” or decides which Engine really stands as King.
Post Reply