Fritz12

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Harvey Williamson
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Fritz12

Post by Harvey Williamson »

It looks like F12 is not that far away, possibly before the end of this month. I currently have a beta version which I have been trying to break. More information here in german http://www.software.arctis.ch/Fritz-TWE ... 000328199p

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Sebastian Boehme
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Post by Sebastian Boehme »

Dear chessfriends,

I've been spending some minutes to summarize the German facts of this site, so you can already get a bit used to this new product.

Here it comes:

TWELVE – The really strong chess interface, including a premium-membership at schach.de / playchess.com!

Clear and brief: -> It includes a video training for beginners and new training lections of top grandmasters with a total playtime of 12 hours.
-> Totally new program interface for a quicker access on all important functions of the software
-> Up-to-date database including 1 million games
-> Membership on schach.de / playchess.com for 1 year

Description (summary):
The most famous chess engine Fritz is being published in an exclusive World Championship version, due to the World Championship Fight between the currently strongest chess players in the world, Wladimir Kramnik and Vishy Anand at Bonn, in November.

Further features: - 3D-chessboards with realistic physics
- new, innovative training functions
- play Giveaway Chess offline and online
- 2 special chess opening books (repertoires of the world championship candidates Kramnik and Anand)

Technical Data:
• Operating System : Windows XP or Windows Vista
• Hardware: 1.0 Ghz Pentium or a processor that is 100 % compatible to that
• Memory needed: At least 512 MB RAM
• Drive: DVD drive necessary


Kind regards,
Sebi
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turbojuice1122
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Post by turbojuice1122 »

Any impression of the playing style of the beta version? I hope that it's not as boring as Fritz 11...
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Post by Mark Mason »

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Post by Harvey Williamson »

I have had GUI12 for about a week and I have to say I like it. CB have been very good at responding to a few minor problems I have pointed out. I have noticed elsewhere that a few people are saying it is a copy of Aquarium. I can see that at 1st glance The Ribbon looks a bit Aquarium like but that is where the similarity ends. It is once you learn the new buttons definitely a CB GUI. You do not need to keep changing windows to play a game, analyse a game etc..., like in Aquarium. That is the main reason i gave up on Aquarium - I have no doubts Aquarium is a good GUI but it is just not intuitive and I, sadly, do not have the time required to properly get to grips with it.

Those of you that are familiar with CB GUI's of the past will very quickly find your way around GUI12.
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Post by yanquis1972 »

Harvey Williamson wrote:I have had GUI12 for about a week and I have to say I like it. CB have been very good at responding to a few minor problems I have pointed out. I have noticed elsewhere that a few people are saying it is a copy of Aquarium. I can see that at 1st glance The Ribbon looks a bit Aquarium like but that is where the similarity ends. It is once you learn the new buttons definitely a CB GUI. You do not need to keep changing windows to play a game, analyse a game etc..., like in Aquarium. That is the main reason i gave up on Aquarium - I have no doubts Aquarium is a good GUI but it is just not intuitive and I, sadly, do not have the time required to properly get to grips with it.

Those of you that are familiar with CB GUI's of the past will very quickly find your way around GUI12.
interesting you say that. one of the things i like very much about aquarium is that play mode, sandbox mode, & database mode are all self-contained, & self-contained within the GUI. i dont like multiple screens popping up & having to be toggled between, etc.

i'm sure it could be streamlined somewhat, but if i want to play a game (for one thing, if i want to play a game i dont use the aquarium GUI, but thats another matter), examine a game, or use the database feature i can all do it within one click. if i want to have an engine analyzing a game from the database & sandbox simultaneously, i can do that as well, all in one window...i can't say i get the full use out of aquarium because unfortunately, as is often the case, something designed by programmers assumes average users have some clue what theyre doing. this is always a mistake imo. but a lot of it is intuitive. for example i love the fact that, instead of a separate variation board, i can simply scroll thru the printed analysis on the main board.

another thing i love about aquarium is the tabs feature. so i can have notation, engine analysis, & opening book all in one small window & shuffle between them as i wish. this leaves the actual chess board as the primary focus, with minimal clutter.
Last edited by yanquis1972 on Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Harvey Williamson »

yanquis1972 wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:I have had GUI12 for about a week and I have to say I like it. CB have been very good at responding to a few minor problems I have pointed out. I have noticed elsewhere that a few people are saying it is a copy of Aquarium. I can see that at 1st glance The Ribbon looks a bit Aquarium like but that is where the similarity ends. It is once you learn the new buttons definitely a CB GUI. You do not need to keep changing windows to play a game, analyse a game etc..., like in Aquarium. That is the main reason i gave up on Aquarium - I have no doubts Aquarium is a good GUI but it is just not intuitive and I, sadly, do not have the time required to properly get to grips with it.

Those of you that are familiar with CB GUI's of the past will very quickly find your way around GUI12.
interesting you say that. one of the things i like very much about aquarium is that play mode, sandbox mode, & database mode are all self-contained, & self-contained within the GUI. i dont like multiple screens popping up & having to be toggled between, etc.

i'm sure it could be streamlined somewhat, but if i want to play a game (for one thing, if i want to play a game i dont use the aquarium GUI, but thats another matter), examine a game, or use the database feature i can all do it within one click. if i want to have an engine analyzing a game from the database & sandbox simultaneously, i can do that as well, all in one window...i can't say i get the full use out of aquarium because unfortunately, as is often the case, something designed by programmers assumes average users have some clue what theyre doing. this is always a mistake imo. but a lot of it is intuitive. for example i love the fact that, instead of a separate variation board, i can simply scroll thru the printed analysis on the main board.
I agree there are a lot of good things in Aquarium. I just think that for new/novice users and experienced users with little time it is not easy to learn.
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Post by yanquis1972 »

im not really sure chessbase is any better about that. given the fact that they have a decade (or whatever) of experience, they've definitely learned more, but for a first iteration i think aquarium did pretty well, & i like the fact that they are willing to be fluid in response to user requests & demands.

i think, in the month or so ive used aquarium, i have a better understanding of its power than i have in the six months or so ive used the fritz 11 GUI. a lot of what i consider archaic terminology (terms that are simple for chess programmers but unknown to actual chess players) needs to be refined or eliminated.

i say this practically every time a discussion about chess GUI comes up, but someone needs to higher bill forster (tarrasch GUI) & give him a bucketload of money. ive never had an easier experience with any chess GUI than his, & it does what its supposed to do perfectly. not flawless, of course, but excellent. you're up & running in a minute, literally, from the moment you click the download link. and that's one guy just messing around for fun.
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Post by Harvey Williamson »

I do not really want to get into a CB v Aquarium debate there are pros and cons to both. It does annoy me though when I read on other forums after people have seen 1 screen shot and post CB have copied/cloned Aquarium. Part of the reason aquarium is a success is I am sure due to the fact that Convekta have managed to partially crack the opening book .ctg format and are also able to read CB databases.
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Post by yanquis1972 »

im def not representing for either side. whichever benefits me best as a consumer is the one i'm interested. i think the reason that people say CB has 'copied' aqua, though, is that not only have they moved to the ribbon interface, they even chose the same COLOR!! how weird is that?? :D

i could care less who copies who, or whether they did or did not. that kind of thinking is for fanboys. i think the general idea of capitalism is we all invent or copy the best ideas of each other, & improve on them so that they are better from those we copied from, & ultimately, that benefits the consumer as well as the producer. (im saying that as a socialist, btw, but capitalism is pretty brilliant in its own way) :D
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Post by Harvey Williamson »

yanquis1972 wrote:im def not representing for either side. whichever benefits me best as a consumer is the one i'm interested. i think the reason that people say CB has 'copied' aqua, though, is that not only have they moved to the ribbon interface, they even chose the same COLOR!! how weird is that?? :D

i could care less who copies who, or whether they did or did not. that kind of thinking is for fanboys. i think the general idea of capitalism is we all invent or copy the best ideas of each other, & improve on them so that they are better from those we copied from, & ultimately, that benefits the consumer as well as the producer. (im saying that as a socialist, btw, but capitalism is pretty brilliant in its own way) :D
I guess its also ok for someone to take an open source programme rename it and claim it is his own 2700+ engine while many spend a lot of time and genuinely get to this level.
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Post by yanquis1972 »

hmm, i think this is an entirely different debate, & one that i believe is related to discussions ongoing at CCC (cyclone?).

imo, if an engine is 'open-source', that means the code is free to be observed, tampered with or utilized however one wants. but to claim that such work is entirely original (whatever that means) when it is not is unethical at best & illegal at worst.

i dont think such an enterprise as you describe (eg, me taking some strong open source program & merely rename it so as to claim it as mine) is necssarily -bad- for anyone. its just plain silly, really, & would make me look like an ass. if i were to improve upon it, that would be good for everyone, as far as i can tell. if i were to sell it plain as my own, i would (hopefully) get sued into bankruptcy or worse, because that would be criminal (i think, or at least it should be? i dont really understand the meaning behind 'open-source' etc, except that it pertains to programmers, which i am most certainly not).
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Post by Sebastian Boehme »

Dear fellows,

Fritz 12 is now finally being announced on the Chessbase Shop site.

(http://www.chessbase.com/shopd/product. ... ser=&coin=)
It will be available from October 1st 2009 according to Chessbase announcement.

A new unique main feature will be the so-called premium membership, this means you will get audio comments at top tournaments, live-training with top grandmasters, offers for simultaneous exhibitions, TV-ChessBase and league tournaments for free, if you are a premium member.

Several new features of the Fritz 12 GUI include: new opening book, new 3-D world, graphical “quick-evaluation” including the display of the game’s current sharpness and a Mate-o-meter.

I hope this brief overview will help you people in being a bit better informed about the new Fritz.

Kind regards,
Sebi
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turbojuice1122
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Post by turbojuice1122 »

I notice that they don't say anything about an improvement in strength. I guess there must be a reason for this...
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oddius
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Post by oddius »

Harvey Williamson wrote:I have had GUI12 for about a week and I have to say I like it. CB have been very good at responding to a few minor problems I have pointed out. I have noticed elsewhere that a few people are saying it is a copy of Aquarium. I can see that at 1st glance The Ribbon looks a bit Aquarium like but that is where the similarity ends. It is once you learn the new buttons definitely a CB GUI. You do not need to keep changing windows to play a game, analyse a game etc..., like in Aquarium. That is the main reason i gave up on Aquarium - I have no doubts Aquarium is a good GUI but it is just not intuitive and I, sadly, do not have the time required to properly get to grips with it.

Those of you that are familiar with CB GUI's of the past will very quickly find your way around GUI12.
Kind of reminds me of Office 2007 ribbons/toolbars whatever you want to call them.:shock:
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