Another Great Position Hard for Computers, Game Included

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Terry McCracken
Senior Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:49 pm

Another Great Position Hard for Computers, Game Included

Post by Terry McCracken »

I recently posted this game and position in CCC, shortly before cutting all ties to Talkchess.

Mikhail Tal vs Boris Spassky

[Event "Tilburg"]
[Site "07"]
[Date "1980.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Mikhail Tal"]
[Black "Boris Spassky"]
[ECO "C95"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "87"]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3
d6 8.c3 O-O 9.h3 Nb8 10.d4 Nbd7 11.Nbd2 Bb7 12.Bc2 Re8 13.Nf1
Bf8 14.Ng3 g6 15.a4 c5 16.d5 c4 17.Bg5 h6 18.Be3 Rb8 19.Qd2 h5
20.Ng5 Nh7 21.Nxh7 Kxh7 22.Rf1 Kg8 23.Kh1 Bg7 24.axb5 axb5
25.f4 exf4 26.Bxf4 Qe7 27.Bg5 Qe5 28.Rf3 Ra8 29.Raf1 Rf8
30.Nxh5 gxh5 31.Rf5 Qe8 32.e5 dxe5 33.Bh6 Ra6 34.Bxg7 Kxg7
35.d6 f6 36.Rg5+ Kf7 37.Bg6+ Ke6 38.Bf5+ Kf7 39.Qd1 Rh8
40.Bg6+ Ke6 41.Bxe8 Rxe8 42.Qxh5 Rd8 43.Rg7 Kxd6 44.Qf7 1-0

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1140507

It also happens to be the Position of the Day...Difficulty Rating...Insane :o

[fen]r4rk1/1b1n1pb1/3p2p1/1p1Pq1Bp/2p1P3/2P2RNP/1PBQ2P1/5R1K w - - 0 30[/fen]
30. Nxh5!!

Tal the Magician Regards,
Terry
BigBen

Post by BigBen »

Hi,
In my database I have different moves (just a repeat), although the sac is the same ... I checked with the chessbase online database and that has the same moves as mine ...

Tal,Mihail (2705) - Spassky,Boris V (2615) [C95]
Tilburg Tilburg, 1980

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 0-0 9.h3 Nb8 10.d4 Nbd7 11.Nbd2 Bb7 12.Bc2 Re8 13.Nf1 Bf8 14.Ng3 g6 15.a4 c5 16.d5 c4 17.Bg5 h6 18.Be3 Rb8 19.Qd2 h5 20.Ng5 Nh7 21.Nxh7 Kxh7 22.Rf1 Kg8 23.Kh1 Bg7 24.axb5 axb5 25.f4 exf4 26.Bxf4 Qe7 27.Bg5 Qe5 28.Bf4 Qe7 29.Bg5 Qe5 30.Rf3 Ra8 31.Raf1 Rf8 32.Nxh5 gxh5 33.Rf5 Qe8 34.e5 dxe5 35.Bh6 Ra6 36.Bxg7 Kxg7 37.d6 f6 38.Rg5+ Kf7 39.Bg6+ Ke6 40.Bf5+ Kf7 41.Qd1 Rh8 42.Bg6+ Ke6 43.Bxe8 Rxe8 44.Qxh5 Rd8 45.Rg7 Kxd6 46.Qf7 1-0

Regards
Tony
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Terry McCracken
Senior Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:49 pm

Post by Terry McCracken »

BigBen wrote:Hi,
In my database I have different moves (just a repeat), although the sac is the same ... I checked with the chessbase online database and that has the same moves as mine ...

Tal,Mihail (2705) - Spassky,Boris V (2615) [C95]
Tilburg Tilburg, 1980

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 0-0 9.h3 Nb8 10.d4 Nbd7 11.Nbd2 Bb7 12.Bc2 Re8 13.Nf1 Bf8 14.Ng3 g6 15.a4 c5 16.d5 c4 17.Bg5 h6 18.Be3 Rb8 19.Qd2 h5 20.Ng5 Nh7 21.Nxh7 Kxh7 22.Rf1 Kg8 23.Kh1 Bg7 24.axb5 axb5 25.f4 exf4 26.Bxf4 Qe7 27.Bg5 Qe5 28.Bf4 Qe7 29.Bg5 Qe5 30.Rf3 Ra8 31.Raf1 Rf8 32.Nxh5 gxh5 33.Rf5 Qe8 34.e5 dxe5 35.Bh6 Ra6 36.Bxg7 Kxg7 37.d6 f6 38.Rg5+ Kf7 39.Bg6+ Ke6 40.Bf5+ Kf7 41.Qd1 Rh8 42.Bg6+ Ke6 43.Bxe8 Rxe8 44.Qxh5 Rd8 45.Rg7 Kxd6 46.Qf7 1-0

Regards
Tony
Good eye Tony! I checked with another source just now, and it would appear that ChessGames is in error.

Should we tell them? :wink:

You have access to to some pretty obscure games, it would be nice if they're not in ChessGames collection and ChessBase that they are submitted, if they are high quality or unique games.

Also post some here as well. Thanks!

Chess Informat Regards,
Terry
BigBen

Post by BigBen »

Hi,
Trouble is I do not know what is unique or obscure until someone like yourself tells me lol ...

Is this final position obscure or can you name the players, year etc lol

1q2r1k1/pppQ2pp/4p3/8/4bP2/8/PB5P/3R1RK1 b

Regards
User avatar
Terry McCracken
Senior Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:49 pm

Post by Terry McCracken »

BigBen wrote:Hi,
Trouble is I do not know what is unique or obscure until someone like yourself tells me lol ...

Is this final position obscure or can you name the players, year etc lol

[fen]1q2r1k1/pppQ2pp/4p3/8/4bP2/8/PB5P/3R1RK1 b - - 0 1[/fen]

Regards
I don't have a database of chess games in my head, I wish I did! :lol:

I've seen similar positions, even from my own games, so without more to go on, this could be very generic. :wink: The only uncommon thing I notice is that the diagram displays from Black's side of the board. :o
Other than that it's ..............................................................................

All too Common to Know if Uncommon Regards,
Terry
BigBen

Post by BigBen »

ah My apologies, I thought you may have been able to search some databases to find the position and hence the players :D

Staunton,Howard - De Rives [B07]
Brussels, 1853

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 Nf6 4.d4 Nxe4 5.dxe5 d5 6.Bd3 Bf5 7.0-0 Bc5 8.b4 Bb6 9.b5 Ne7 10.Nd4 Bg6 11.Bxe4 dxe4 12.Ba3 0-0 13.Nd2 Re8 14.Nc4 Nd5 15.Qd2 Nxc3 16.Nxb6 Nxb5 17.Nxa8 Nxd4 18.Rad1 Nf3+ 19.gxf3 Qxa8 20.fxe4 Bxe4 21.f4 Qc8 22.Qd7 Qb8 23.e6 fxe6 24.Bb2 1-0

Regards
User avatar
Terry McCracken
Senior Member
Posts: 1300
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:49 pm

Post by Terry McCracken »

BigBen wrote:ah My apologies, I thought you may have been able to search some databases to find the position and hence the players :D

Staunton,Howard - De Rives [B07]
Brussels, 1853

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 Nf6 4.d4 Nxe4 5.dxe5 d5 6.Bd3 Bf5 7.0-0 Bc5 8.b4 Bb6 9.b5 Ne7 10.Nd4 Bg6 11.Bxe4 dxe4 12.Ba3 0-0 13.Nd2 Re8 14.Nc4 Nd5 15.Qd2 Nxc3 16.Nxb6 Nxb5 17.Nxa8 Nxd4 18.Rad1 Nf3+ 19.gxf3 Qxa8 20.fxe4 Bxe4 21.f4 Qc8 22.Qd7 Qb8 23.e6 fxe6 24.Bb2 1-0

Regards
I don't have ChessBase 9, but I do have databases on my PC from chess programs and of course I know a few on the net, but I was too lazy to try and hunt it down :P

The game isn't really that good, Black blunders badly, so quality is lacking.

Not Much of a Catch Really :P Regards,
Terry
BigBen

Post by BigBen »

Hi,
The game is not a good game lol I was thinking of obscure in this case :D

I will have to see if I can find a game with quality like the one you put up and!! for it to be obscure lol.

My main database has 6.5 Million games (many computer games are now included) so it may take a while :D

Regards
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