Interview with Gian-Carlo Pascutto

[Watchman]

Hi All,

Frank Quisinsky recently interviewed Gian-Carlo Pascutto posted HERE at Schachwelt.

One paragraph I took issue with and posted a rebuttal on Talkchess (most of it deleted by the CCC mods). Below is that post in its entirety.

============================================

I really hate to rain on Frank's interview, but I must take exception to the follow paragraph in the interview with Gian:

"When Sjeng made a great performance regardless, a jealous competitor then complained that Deep Sjeng should be "promoted" to the full professionals category, requiring a huge entry fee. The ICGA granted this request (without as much as informing me until more than a month afterwards when it was way too late!) with the result that it is now no longer affordable for me to attend the World Championships. The behaviour of this "collegue" (which I now understand is very much the wrong word) and the way the ICGA handled it has disappointed me greatly and will not be forgotten soon."

It is my understanding the ICGA uses 3 types of definitions to determine what entry fee is charged a competitor in the World Championships.

"The definitions are the same as used in the past. They read as follows."

“Amateur: programmers who have no commercial interest in their program, and are not professional game programmers.
Applications for amateur classification must supply information to justify their claim."

“Semi-professional: Any program submitted by an employee or associate from a games-programming company. The program’s name must not be derived from or similar to a commercial product."

“Professional: A program whose name is the same as or derived from a commercial product.”

Now I am not sure about the rest of you, but to a peon like me, Sjeng would currently fit squarely within the "Professional" definition. Apparently when brought to its attention, the ICGA ruled this way (last year). What amazes me (it really should not) is how Gian blames "the behaviour of (his) colleague" for him having to pay the correct entry fee, and faults the ICGA how they handled it! Apparently Gian misled the ICGA for 2 years in a row, claiming that Sjeng was an “Amateur” (even though Sjeng was a commercial product) and therefore did not pay the correct fee. (Please correct me if I am wrong Gian, I do pray that I am). It seems Gian’s perpetration of this fraud was to not only be condoned by anyone who might know about it, but that they also take part in the conspiracy to defraud the ICGA. Astonishing! Somehow it is the fault of his "colleague" and ICGA!

Apparently Gian felt that Sjeng should be allowed to enter under “Amateur” status (€25), while Rybka, Hiarcs, Shredder et al. are supposed to pay the €500 “Professional” fee. Let’s see… if he paid for Spain & China as an amateur, seems he would still owe the ICGA €950. Somehow I cannot sympathize with Gian's indignation. I would bet the ICGA being shorted €950 “will not be forgotten soon” either.

No, I must say that type of behavior, blaming someone else for what is their responsibility especially when it can be treated as criminal, I take a very dim view of. Shame on you Gian. You should be thanking this person, that he put you back in the right track and stopped you from continuing to defraud the ICGA. You should apologize to the ICGA, pay what you owe them and hope they do not file criminal charges against you. What is also amazing to me, Gian would rather take this action and create a problem for himself, rather than right from when Sjeng “turned pro” i.e. when he began selling Sjeng (after Amsterdam?) the next ICGA tournament he entered (Beijing) and say to the ICGA President , "Sir, I wish to continue entering the WCCC, but I cannot afford the full professional fee... I could afford it if allowed to continue to pay the fee I am currently paying. If not, what can we work out?" (How to justify that to himself when the other teams pay hundreds of Euros each is beyond me; but if he has ICGA approval, then so be it.) No, men must lie, cheat and steal to get what they want; then when they are called to task about it, add insult to injury by blaming everyone else under the sun for their foolish acts.

[mclane]

you think that this kind of posting is appropriate for you ?

obviously you believe it is.

[Watchman]

you think that this kind of posting is appropriate for you ?

obviously you believe it is.

Tell me one reason why it is not appropriate, Thor. I wasn't the one that started this subject.

Maybe I should moderate (i.e. delete) it.

You are one funny guy... I thought you were "Mr. Vociferous" when it comes to mods editing/deleting posts. You really crack me up.

[mclane]

you post many emoticons. but you still don't know why your posting is a shame ? what comes next ?

when i read statements like (not posted by you):

Instead of making idiot posts here why don't you enter the next high-rise building and test if gravity still works?

i am very disapointed about the community of computerchess.
it seems psychopaths have taken over the community and post their ugly
death phantasies

are we this far that we send death wishes to other computerchess people ?
what has happened to our hobby ?

Do computerchess people have no ethics, no moral ?
I remember an ICGA championship where a participant X of a blitz tournament demanded that another participant Y should carry his pc from desk to desk although this guy was handicapped with a broken leg and had to use 2 crutches to move from one desk to another.

That is not the form of social-interactivity i like. it seems computerchess is more and more the terrain of psychopaths.

[Harvey Williamson]

when i read statements like (not posted by you):

Instead of making idiot posts here why don't you enter the next high-rise building and test if gravity still works?

Of course a comment like that would not be allowed here directed at another member.

[mclane]

ok. but we have blackmails and death wishes in the scene of computerchess people.
i wonder what is going on with the people that they believe this kind
of BEHAVIOUR would be tolerated anywhere.


IF GCP was lucky with the amateur status in earlier years, he was LUCKY.
i know that mark uniacke was also sometimes asked to pay professional
entry fee and that the DECISION which program is amateur and which is professional was always a reasons for bad mood and jealous comments by competitors.

thats all IMO not fair sports.

when i see somebody in computerchess scene having a problem, i try to help him. i am not jumping on people who lie on the ground and kick them into the face because they are weak.

don't we see the similar behaviour in the youth in real life when they
hit an old man in a railway station, with 3-4 kids, and kick him into death
for no other reason that they want to live out their aggressions and have a "good day" ?

or when another amok run at schools has shown us that ego-shooter games make people CHANGE their behaviour and changing these people into murderers.

[Watchman]

you post many emoticons. but you still don't know why your posting is a shame ? what comes next ?

I posted a couple emoticons because I laughed long and hard for quite some time about your post. You rant about democracy and freedom of speech, yet when I exercise those things, you berate me for it? (yes still laughing about it btw).

It is a shame... it's a shame a grown man can't act like a responsible adult. No... instead it reminds me of behaviour of a spoiled child and a cheat.

i am very disapointed about the community of computerchess.

Do computerchess people have no ethics, no moral ?

Yes I wonder that too, one should wonder that and yes, be disappointed when you see something like this incident with Gian, in an article for all the chess world to see how he was supposedly cheated by a "colleague" and ripped off by the ICGA... when the truth of the matter is a far cry from what he described.

I remember an ICGA championship where a participant X of a blitz tournament demanded that another participant Y should carry his pc from desk to desk although this guy was handicapped with a broken leg and had to use 2 crutches to move from one desk to another.

This upset you? What did you do about it? I hope you stood up and said, "This is BS... let him stay where he is... obviously there is no need for him to move." Or instead did you remain silent??? I can guess and bet I am right.

In this case, Gian demands every other commercial author to pay €500, while he silently continues to pay next to nothing, even though his is a commercial engine by ICGA Definition (hiding this from the ICGA). So I am here to say, "This is BS... Either he get ICGA approval to pay a lesser fee for the WCCC, OR DO LIKE EVERYONE ELSE and pay the appropriate i.e. commercial / professional fee."

That is not the form of social-interactivity i like. it seems computerchess is more and more the terrain of psychopaths.
when i read statements like (not posted by you):

Instead of making idiot posts here why don't you enter the next high-rise building and test if gravity still works?

it seems psychopaths have taken over the community and post their ugly
death phantasies

Sounds like CTF to me... is why I have no interest to be "a part" there.

entry fee and that the DECISION which program is amateur and which is professional was always a reasons for bad mood and jealous comments by competitors

If Gian had ICGA Approval for an Amateur's Fee, I say more power to him! Great! Let's Play!

But this is not the case, if he is marking "Amateur" when in fact he is a "Professional" on the entry form... this is a deception, a fraud and probably criminal... and he needs to be called to account for this ESPECIALLY when he says it's ICGA's fault and the fault of someone else!

when i see somebody in computerchess scene having a problem, i try to help him. i am not jumping on people who lie on the ground and kick them into the face because they are weak.

Hmmm... still wondering if you helped "The Man w/a Broken Leg" (above) to his new desk. Better still did you say anything first about it being stupid and put the first person to shame for asking such a boneheaded thing?

If you are referring to Gian, what problem does he have... Little King Syndrome? Where he can tell tales and everyone bows to him in an animated belief? And you want to help him by what... telling us, "shhhh let him believe he is wearing no clothes! If he were to realize he is naked! What would that mean to us!"

Well, I am here to tell the little emperor he is wearing no clothes.

The sad truth is, the consequences are worse than no clothes. He is hurting not only himself, but also everyone connected with ICGA. Very very sad... and we should remain silent? In fact I had and was silent, until he opened up this subject again.

This isn't about me and some sort of animosity or desire for evil. My gosh if I had my way, Gian and I would be Beer Guzzling Buddies. This is a case of "sunlight is the best disinfectant." I have zero ill-will toward Gian and I have absolutely zero pleasure in confronting him.

[sockmonkey]

That is not the form of social-interactivity i like. it seems computerchess is more and more the terrain of psychopaths.
when i read statements like (not posted by you):

Instead of making idiot posts here why don't you enter the next high-rise building and test if gravity still works?

it seems psychopaths have taken over the community and post their ugly
death phantasies

Sounds like CTF to me... is why I have no interest to be "a part" there.

Sadly, this was in a CCC forum. The thread has, naturally, been locked, deleted and the participants beaten with sticks.

Jeremy

[Watchman]

I was just wondering...

If the fee schedule were reversed: Amateurs pay €500 and €25 for Professionals (same definitions of course)

(With the thought only "Big Boys Allowed" and everyone else must pay if they wish to play in the top tier)

I am wondering what box Gian would be checking on his entry app and what fee he would have paid...

[mclane]

I have zero ill-will toward Gian and I have absolutely zero pleasure in confronting him.

your posting (i do only quote 1 sentence because the rest is IMO redundant ranting) is a shame. And i hope GCP is not reading it.

now you can continue with emoticons and pages of sentences where you try to call me an asshole without calling me an asshole.

the entry fee was always a reason for trouble. and hiarcs was often enough in the dilemma. so i don't really understand where you take the right to point your naked finger on GCP while 4 fingers show in your own face.

[Watchman]

now you can continue with emoticons and pages of sentences where you try to call me an asshole without calling me an asshole.

It astounds me you would say that... or even think that about me! Why on earth would you presume that???

I can honestly say (to the best of my recollection ) I have never thought you to be "an asshole." I think some of your beliefs are quite weird... but that is ok... you probably think I am weird and laugh at me too. I can live with that.

There are very few (not even a handful) I have come across on this earth that I really feel rate that title. Maybe other titles...

I don't sit here and scan the forums and say to myself "what an asshole... I will show him!" I like forums for entertainment, exchange of information, helping others, learning from them... sure sometimes the exchanges are "spirited."

If I ever found myself in the position where I am starting to stamp buttholes I shoot down on the side of my computer, it's way past time I get out of the forum posting business.

[Watchman]

your posting (i do only quote 1 sentence because the rest is IMO redundant ranting) is a shame. And i hope GCP is not reading it.

But why??? You never say why! Maybe indirectly...

What you consider him to be "the old man" and I am "the young boys kicking him"?

Or you consider him to be "higher" like that of a prince or king because he wrote his own chess engine? And you have some sort of veneration or reverence as a result? My gosh, I hope not. Maybe you would consider me a god then, because:

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth,
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth...

I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, nor even eagle flew.
And while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space...
...put out my hand,"¹ And returned myself to earth.

Of course not; you do not fawn over men who are skilled pilots… as I hope you do not fawn over those who are skilled at developing a chess engine. So then, what is it?

Again, the shame, and what is shameful is his actions... not my confronting them.

¹High Flight by John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

[turbojuice1122]

At this point, I generally agree with Rob's initial post. I like GCP, but I believe he is quite wrong in this situation, and also wrong to dwell on old conflict issues in that interview. There were many ways of gracefully answering the question without rehashing old nasties.

Thorsten, what are you referring to about Hiarcs having trouble with the entry fees, also? I am wondering the story behind this, and Rob's response. This lingering doubt is the only reason why I don't go so far as to say that I wholeheartedly agree with Rob.

[Harvey Williamson]

At this point, I generally agree with Rob's initial post. I like GCP, but I believe he is quite wrong in this situation, and also wrong to dwell on old conflict issues in that interview. There were many ways of gracefully answering the question without rehashing old nasties.

Thorsten, what are you referring to about Hiarcs having trouble with the entry fees, also? I am wondering the story behind this, and Rob's response. This lingering doubt is the only reason why I don't go so far as to say that I wholeheartedly agree with Rob.

I have no idea what Thor means. We have paid the full fee every time I have been involved. If he means that the fee structure at ICGA is wrong then yes that certainly could be discussed. However the rules as they stand are quite clear. The high entry fee could also have been one of the reasons Hiarcs did not enter for many years. However that is not the same as cheating the system so that you can play. If you disagree with the rules you can of course try to get them changed, you can abide by them, or you can not enter.