Chess King Triomphe

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Larry
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Chess King Triomphe

Post by Larry »

http://www.ebay.de/itm/110769792327?ssP ... 1426.l2649

I'm the current high bidder, but it's early in the bidding. Does anyone
here have experience with these things? I notice it was programmed by
Lang and Levy, both very good programmers, but I can't find a rating for
it. To be sure, they are rather rare on ebay.
The seller says it won a microchesscomputer tourney in 1981.
Larry
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Both the Chess King Master and Triomphe are fairly rare birds Larry
Mike Watters has a nice web page on both of them
http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/che ... aster.html
http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/che ... omphe.html

i dont think the Triomphe actually won the tournament but it was Langs Cyrus program
contained within the Master/Triomphe that won the event

Selective Search shows a rating for it of 1200 Elo

Good Luck on your Bid Regards
Steve
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Jose
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Post by Jose »

Steve B wrote:Both the Chess King Master and Triomphe are fairly rare birds Larry
Mike Watters has a nice web page on both of them
http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/che ... aster.html
http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/che ... omphe.html

i dont think the Triomphe actually won the tournament but it was Langs Cyrus program
contained within the Master/Triomphe that won the event


Absoluty correct, that is was i want to say...
Steve B wrote: Selective Search shows a rating for it of 1200 Elo

rating is for sure not high!

Thanks
José
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

I have both the Master and the Triomphe and when I spoke to Richard Lang about them, he said that he never programmed the 6301 processor which the Triomphe uses but he did program the Z80 which the Master has.
So if Richard is saying he didn't program the Triomphe maybe it was Mark Taylor who did?
Z80 Regards
Bryan
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Problem is that the Triomphe manual states it was the winner of the 1981 event
that can only be Langs Cyrus program

unless the manual is just wrong of course

Wouldn't Surprise Me Regards
Steve
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

I think the manual might be wrong by someone getting their Cyrus programs mixed up.
Mark Taylor also has a Cyrus program credited to him (Cyrus 64) so maybe with Richard stating that he only worked on Z80 processors whilst working for David Levy, it might be Mark's.
I've just fired off an email to Richard about this but I don't suppose he'll remember.
Intelligent Software Regards
Bryan
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Post by Mike Watters »

Hi All

It will be interesting to see whether Richard Lang remembers anything of these Chess King machines. Neither appears on his list of chess computers he programmed. There again the Chess King Philidor doesn't either. My bet is that the Master has a version of Cyrus 2. The manual says it's Cyrus. My French manual for the Triomphe is silent on the subject, so very probably isn't Cyrus.

The Chess King Master does not appear in the Selective Search Rating List until December 1998, when Eric Hallsworth extended the published list to include more of the Oldies. The Master started with a rating of 1280, which went up to 1300, then down to 1200. It may be that the rating is based on very limited old data and probably should not be taken too literally.

Best wishes
Mike
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

i just compared both manuals..Master and Triomphe

The Triomphe manual does not mention the Cyrus program as Mike Mentioned so i was wrong to say the manual mentioned the 1981 tournament..it doesn't
In fact the playing levels are not the same although there are 8 levels in both programs

Errata Regards
Steve
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

Gents
Yes the Chess King Triomphe manual doesn't mention that it contains the Cyrus program but the Master does.

Richard told me this morning that the 6301 is a very cheap controller chip with a tiny amount of built in ram.
I never worked on this chip and am sure that Cyrus was never ported to it. (Impossible anyway due to lack of memory).
I remember the Chess King Master and confirm that it had a Z80 and Cyrus.
I do not remember the Chess King Triomphe. It could well be a Mark Taylor 6301 program.

The big question now is who programmed the Triomphe??
MT Regards
Bryan
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Post by Steve B »

Great Investigative work Bryan

As we seem to now be at a dead end ...
i have contacted the Great Computer Chess Archivist himself...
Hein Veldhuis

perhaps he can provide a clue

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... ytV111u1MA


The Chase Is Afoot Regards
Steve
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Steve B wrote:As we seem to now be at a dead end ...
i have contacted the Great Computer Chess Archivist himself...
Hein Veldhuis

perhaps he can provide a clue
Hein has replied and i quote..

"It seems that Brian Whitby has probably right! The ChessKing Triomphe (and
Counter-Gambit - same hard- and software) from february 1987 (!?) has a
program from Mark Taylor (or in cooperation with David Levy himself).

4K ROM - 256 Bytes - 6301 CPU - 2 MHz

database Regards,
Hein Veldhuis"


Well Done Bryan Regards
Steve
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Post by Mike Watters »

Hi Steve/Bryan

Not that I am in favour of reducing the number of chess computers attributed to UK programmers :wink: a couple of things made me think that there might be another contender for programmer of the Chess King Triomphe and Counter Gambit.

Firstly I have not seen any previous evidence that Mark Taylor programmed the 6301V chip (though its perfectly possible). Secondly there is a programmer who wrote a 4K program for that chip, who worked for SciSys and CXG and was well known to David Levy going right back to 1981.

It's only a guess. :?:


Hardly keeping the British End Up Regards :oops:
Mike



Inside the Counter Gambit

Image



Inside the Triomphe

Image
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

Steve/Mike
We're 100% certain that the Master is Richard Langs and the Triomphe is now Mark Taylor which just leaves the Philidor.
David Levy says that if we supply him with the release date and the processor used with each Chess King he might be able to tell us who programmed it!!
Unfortunately I don't know much about the Philidor only what's written on Mike's site.
BTW.. Larry did you win the auction?
UK Software Regards
Bryan
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

I think Hein's has gives us the answer again here at the following link:
http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... g_Philidor
So the Triomphe & Counter Gambit where programmed by Mark Taylor and the Master & Philidor by Richard Lang.
UK 80's Regards
Bryan
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Post by Mike Watters »

Hi Bryan and All

My post missed its target. :(

What I was trying to lead you to was that the Chess King Triomphe and Counter Gambit are more likely to contain a Kaare Danielsen program than a Mark Taylor program.

Anyway Mark Taylor and David Levy (who wrote the chess algorithm) will have written the programs for the Chess King Pocket Micro, Chess King Mighty Midget, both De Luxe versions and Mephisto Teufelchen. Those machines all have similar Hitachi 4 bit 2K Rom singlechips to those in the SciSys series mentioned on the UK Contribution webpage.

On another aspect of the Chess King story David Levy was very clear that CGL soon dropped out and were not involved in Chess King. References eg Harding's book which say that CGL and Intelligent Software were partners in the business are wrong apparently.

All the best
Mike
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