Collector's Corner..On Collecting Dedicated Chess Computers

This forum is for general discussions and questions, including Collectors Corner and anything to do with Computer chess.

Moderators: Harvey Williamson, Steve B, Watchman

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the fen tag before the upgrade.
Post Reply
Larry
Senior Member
Posts: 2269
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:42 am
Location: Gosford, NSW Australia

Re: Rare, but somewhat overpriced?

Post by Larry »

X__Gandalf__X wrote:Rare, but somewhat overpriced?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Schachcomputer-C ... SwtZJY-4dC
Pity about the CC3 box.Also a pity he can't show us the manual
and pieces.
L
mauben
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:38 pm

Senator + hash tables ram

Post by mauben »

A German gentleman is currently ebaying a Senator module having been added hash tables ram. He claims that turned the Senator into a Magellan. This is his google-translated product description:

"Mephisto Senator with Hash-Table RAM for Modular, Exclusive, Munich

The senator was later transformed into a Magellan by a subsequent soldering in of RAM. Display H: 512"

Does that hold true ? I.e., the only difference between the Senator and the Magellan is the hash tables ram ?

I would greatly appreciate any light on the above.

Regards,

Mauro
User avatar
spacious_mind
Senior Member
Posts: 3999
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:20 pm
Location: Alabama
Contact:

Re: Senator + hash tables ram

Post by spacious_mind »

mauben wrote:A German gentleman is currently ebaying a Senator module having been added hash tables ram. He claims that turned the Senator into a Magellan. This is his google-translated product description:

"Mephisto Senator with Hash-Table RAM for Modular, Exclusive, Munich

The senator was later transformed into a Magellan by a subsequent soldering in of RAM. Display H: 512"

Does that hold true ? I.e., the only difference between the Senator and the Magellan is the hash tables ram ?

I would greatly appreciate any light on the above.

Regards,

Mauro
Yes that's probably true.

But I don't see the point of spoiling a perfectly good Senator.
Last edited by spacious_mind on Sun May 28, 2017 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nick
User avatar
Scally
Full Member
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:44 pm
Location: Bermondsey, London
Contact:

Post by Scally »

Mauro,

Yes that's definitely correct see here, translated into English:

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... r-bug.html

Al.
User avatar
Steve B
Site Admin
Posts: 10140
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
Location: New York City USofA
Contact:

Re: Senator + hash tables ram

Post by Steve B »

mauben wrote: He claims that turned the Senator into a Magellan.

The senator was later transformed into a Magellan by a subsequent soldering in of RAM. Display H: 512"
spacious_mind wrote:
But I don't see the point of spoiling a perfectly good Senator.



Well Said Regards
Steve
JeffB
Member
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Post by JeffB »

But I don't see the point of spoiling a perfectly good Senator.
I don't see this as spoiling, for several reasons. First, the Senator board has a place for the RAM, so by adding the extra memory you're not modifying the board but merely populating the spot for an optional chip. Second, you gain more than 100 Elo points.

Maybe I'm the odd man out here, but I see that as "enhancing", not "spoiling".

Thanks for the Memory Regards,
Cheers,

Jeff B.
User avatar
Steve B
Site Admin
Posts: 10140
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
Location: New York City USofA
Contact:

Post by Steve B »

JeffB wrote:
But I don't see the point of spoiling a perfectly good Senator.
I don't see this as spoiling, for several reasons. First, the Senator board has a place for the RAM, so by adding the extra memory you're not modifying the board but merely populating the spot for an optional chip. Second, you gain more than 100 Elo points.

Maybe I'm the odd man out here, but I see that as "enhancing", not "spoiling".

Thanks for the Memory Regards,
"Enhancing" is code for MODIFYING
you want the extra Ram.....thats fine so buy a Magellan module on Ebay when one shows up..or ..place a "buy" offer on the schachcomputer buy/sell site
Mephisto sold the two different modules..so collect both
and what about the name on the module?
do we leave the name Senator or scratch that out with a pen knife and carve in the name Magellan?
where does it all end i ask you

Modifying by any other name...will never smell as sweet Regards
Steve
JeffB
Member
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Post by JeffB »

I suppose this is a difference in opinion of the meaning of the term "modify". I spent many years upgrading and modifying broadcast video equipment, which also included dedicated-purpose computers and control systems. In that field, adding the RAM would be an "upgrade" because the RAM was already contemplated in the original design; adding or modifying any circuitry not already allotted for on the board would fall under "modify". (Upgrades would not violate equipment warranties, but modifications likely would.)

The Meaning of Meaning is the Last Barrier to Understanding Regards,
Cheers,

Jeff B.
User avatar
Steve B
Site Admin
Posts: 10140
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
Location: New York City USofA
Contact:

Post by Steve B »

JeffB wrote:I suppose this is a difference in opinion of the meaning of the term "modify". I spent many years upgrading and modifying broadcast video equipment, which also included dedicated-purpose computers and control systems. In that field, adding the RAM would be an "upgrade" because the RAM was already contemplated in the original design; adding or modifying any circuitry not already allotted for on the board would fall under "modify". (Upgrades would not violate equipment warranties, but modifications likely would.)

The Meaning of Meaning is the Last Barrier to Understanding Regards,
"Modifying" to me (and i think to most collectors)is making any changes what-so-ever to the computer that changes it from its originally "released for sale" state
if the computer is not 100% the same ..as released for sale..both cosmetically and hardware ..then its is modified
my definition is from a collecting standpoint and not meant to be a legal definition
although ..i image that if you returned a Senator module to Mephisto for repair and they discovered you hot wired extra ram into it ..it would void the Warranty

Modifying The Warranty Regards
Steve
JeffB
Member
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Post by JeffB »

If you returned it to Mephisto for repair ... nothing would happen. They're gone. :)

But: Soldering a chip onto pads that are made for that chip is not "hot wiring". No matter. I look at the systems from a user's point of view, not a collector's point of view.

Out of curiosity, if I had to replace a damaged cable in a chess computer to restore its functionality, would that be considered a modification? (I'm not being a wise-ass, it's meant to be a legitimate question to a collector.)

Differentially Regards,
Cheers,

Jeff B.
User avatar
Steve B
Site Admin
Posts: 10140
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
Location: New York City USofA
Contact:

Post by Steve B »

JeffB wrote:
Out of curiosity, if I had to replace a damaged cable in a chess computer to restore its functionality, would that be considered a modification?
no
repairing a computer to restore its exact functionality is not modifying a computer
these computers are 30-40 years old now so defects are inevitable
if that were true my collection would consist of 40% modified computers
:P
just as long as the computer looks and acts the same after the repair
by "acts the same" i mean ...same hash ram,speed..program etc etc

in an effort of full disclosure however ..
read my thread on the Savant
at the end of the day....the Savant had to be modified in order to work
i justified the modification to myself by reasoning that no Savants would work today without it


Rationalizing Regards
Steve
Larry
Senior Member
Posts: 2269
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:42 am
Location: Gosford, NSW Australia

Post by Larry »

Steve B wrote: although ..i image that if you returned a Senator module to Mephisto for repair and they discovered you hot wired extra ram into it ..it would void the Warranty
I'm wondering if someone had returned a 2mb Montreux for repair
during the warranty period, would that RAM upgrade void the warranty?
I mean the RAM chips were just a push fit.
I'm also in favour of not soldering in extra chips if the machine is part
of a collection. However, only some of us are collectors, most will be
willing to bid higher to get the extra 100elo.
L
User avatar
Steve B
Site Admin
Posts: 10140
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
Location: New York City USofA
Contact:

Post by Steve B »

Larry wrote:
I'm wondering if someone had returned a 2mb Montreux for repair
during the warranty period, would that RAM upgrade void the warranty?
my guess is it would have
not the Ram chip itself but the idea that you ..on your own.. a non authorized(by the Company/factory) individual ..opened up the computer and tinkered around inside it
if you are returning something to a manufacturer for a defect ..its not a good idea to announce out loud that you already opened the device on your own
they would know at once that you opened it and probably blame you for the defect(whatever it was)

Factory Sealed Regards
Steve
JeffB
Member
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Post by JeffB »

I'm wondering if someone had returned a 2mb Montreux for repair
during the warranty period, would that RAM upgrade void the warranty?
Several factors could come into play here:

1. Who did the upgrade?
2. What is the company's warranty policy?
3. What is the relationship of the person who performed the upgrade to the company?
4. Could the upgrade have contributed to the failure that required repair?

These are not independent of each other, and other factors could come into the consideration as well. Some manufacturers have hard and fast rules that "if you break the seal, you void the warranty", while others are more flexible. (I spent many years upgrading, repairing, installing, etc. professional, industrial, and broadcast video and control systems. In many cases, I was authorized to upgrade equipment, so the upgrades did not void any warranties.)
Cheers,

Jeff B.
JeffB
Member
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Post by JeffB »

Steve B wrote:
read my thread on the Savant
Nice! Any chance of getting a closeup picture of the screen?
Cheers,

Jeff B.
Post Reply