Comments on the Revelation II dedicated chess computer

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sje
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Comments on the Revelation II dedicated chess computer

Post by sje »

If you haven't been there already, see: http://www.chesscomputer.eu/

First impressions:

1. Gosh, that's beautiful.
2. Gosh, that's expensive.
3. It's very clever to support emulation of yesteryear's machines.

Later:

1. Having only six control buttons instead of sixteen or more is not the choice I'd make.

2. Having a monochrome display instead of an active matrix LCD color display is also not a choice I'd make. Small VGA resolution color LCD screen are fairly inexpensive. In fact, it wouldn't cost too much just to embed a third party touch sensitive tablet.

3. The display and buttons are an integral part of the board, but this doesn't have to be the case. These could be in a separate module, connected by a coiled cable and so be out of the way and not be a distraction for serious play.

4. Actually, the display and buttons could be entirely optional and its functionality instead be handled by a laptop or tablet. This would mean coding emulators for the various older units. It would also raise the idea of just selling this emulator code to anyone with a DGT board and a suitable computer.

5. Voice synthesis output would be nice.

6. The piece set (and its size) is nearly exactly what I would have chosen. I'd prefer to see a somewhat larger bishop cap, but that's about it.
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Post by Steve B »

The Rev II adds Piece Recognition to the Rev I board as well as a faster processor

More here...

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4671

Still Waiting Regards
Steve
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Post by sje »

I read that thread and I agree that the ability to emulate long-ago machines is a big attraction. It's really a must-have computer for those with the interest and the money.

But there are other paths to the emulation of discontinued chess computers. Much like emulations of old video games, there are emulators and code for dozens of old chess computers. Well, there are if one knows where to look. However, since the legality of these is questionable at best, I'm hesitant to go into detail on the topic.

But I will go as far to post a video link of special interest for Super Constellation fans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKfPHX6Bo40
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Post by spacious_mind »

sje wrote:I read that thread and I agree that the ability to emulate long-ago machines is a big attraction. It's really a must-have computer for those with the interest and the money.

But there are other paths to the emulation of discontinued chess computers. Much like emulations of old video games, there are emulators and code for dozens of old chess computers. Well, there are if one knows where to look. However, since the legality of these is questionable at best, I'm hesitant to go into detail on the topic.

But I will go as far to post a video link of special interest for Super Constellation fans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKfPHX6Bo40
Brilliant! I love it. Going to go now and spend a few weeks creating a Mess emulator to emulate Hiarcs 3 and my Revelations and Resurrections to make sure that I have back ups for posterity since none of these are made anymore.

Thanks for the Link! regards
Nick
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Post by sje »

DGT is taking orders for the Revelation II with delivery sometime this month. The price is 2,219.01 € + 465.99 € VAT.

http://dgtshop.nl/e-boards/revelation-ii-detail

2,219.01 € = US$2,989.89
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Post by Steve B »

sje wrote:DGT is taking orders for the Revelation II with delivery sometime this month. The price is 2,219.01 € + 465.99 € VAT.

http://dgtshop.nl/e-boards/revelation-ii-detail

2,219.01 € = US$2,989.89
The price does not include the pieces which are extra:
http://dgtshop.nl/e-boards/chess-sets-for-e-boards

nor does it mention anyway the carry bag which I am sure they are not including for free

also..not so sure that any units will be shipping this month
Ruud's site mentions a December-January shipping date for those that have already pre-ordered and a Feb shipping date for new orders

Web Site Info Murky At Best Regards
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Post by sje »

It looks like you're right about extra cost for the pieces and the bag. And I'm sure there's a hefty shipping fee for sending the loot across the big pond.

Now other than the 81 LED grid, I could replicate the entire experience with my soon-to-arrive DGT board, my notebook, and a bunch of software. Well, at least what software can be had legally. All of this for half the price.

Also, there's the possibility of hacking my DGT board by drilling 81 holes and adding my own LED circuitry. This would also need its own driver, a bit of a pain.
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Post by Steve B »

sje wrote:
Now other than the 81 LED grid, I could replicate the entire experience with my soon-to-arrive DGT board, my notebook, and a bunch of software. Well, at least what software can be had legally. All of this for half the price.
I don't think so...
Different animal all together
that "notebook" thingy you casually mentioned "En Passant"
totally disqualifies this as a possibility


Dedicated Computers Forever Regards
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Post by Wardy »

There is something to be said for the simplicity of sitting down with a good wooden computer that is lost in the PC/DGT experience........ whether that's because of the PC fans, the extra cables or the disembodied voice announcing moves I'm not sure.

Given a choice I find myself reaching for a dedicated rather than my dgt....

I'd love a Revelation II and I just hope to be able to get one past the Missus at some point.......
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Post by Steve B »

Wardy wrote: I'd love a Revelation II and I just hope to be able to get one past the Missus at some point.......
:P
Nice to see you back and happily posting Paul
Now Go Kick Some Obsidian Butt Regards
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Post by Wardy »

Thanks Steve :-)

I'm trying to convince the london chess shop to offer some kind of finance deal just so I can get a Revelation II, our first child has somewhat taken control of the finances!!

How many things does a baby need regards

Paul
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Post by sje »

Steve B wrote:that "notebook" thingy you casually mentioned "En Passant"
totally disqualifies this as a possibility
Consider this:

1. I draw up plans for a spiffy wooden base for my DGT board. The base is about 10 cm high and its sides are flush with the board.

2. I hand these plans to a carpenter along with a couple of hundred dollars and say "Make it look really good."

3. While waiting for the base, I disassemble my notebook and replace its screen with a small, touch sensitive color display. I add a keypad with about a dozen keys, connected to a USB port on the notebook's main board. These will fit into a cut-out on the base.

4. I do some minor surgery on the DGT board so that its USB port is moved from the side of the board to tho bottom of the board.

5. I load the notebook with all the programs, emulators, and emulated programs I can find.

6. When the base is finished, I connect the notebook, display, keypad, and the cable to the board. I then glue it all together, add a plaque saying "Serial# 1", and I've now got the best dedicated chess computer in the world.

7. Sell it on Ebay for twice the cost of its parts.

8. Repeatedly repeat the above steps changing only the serial number.
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Post by Steve B »

sje wrote:
Steve B wrote:that "notebook" thingy you casually mentioned "En Passant"
totally disqualifies this as a possibility
Consider this:

1. I draw up plans for a spiffy wooden base for my DGT board. The base is about 10 cm high and its sides are flush with the board.

2. I hand these plans to a carpenter along with a couple of hundred dollars and say "Make it look really good."

3. While waiting for the base, I disassemble my notebook and replace its screen with a small, touch sensitive color display. I add a keypad with about a dozen keys, connected to a USB port on the notebook's main board. These will fit into a cut-out on the base.

4. I do some minor surgery on the DGT board so that its USB port is moved from the side of the board to tho bottom of the board.

5. I load the notebook with all the programs, emulators, and emulated programs I can find.

6. When the base is finished, I connect the notebook, display, keypad, and the cable to the board. I then glue it all together, add a plaque saying "Serial# 1", and I've now got the best dedicated chess computer in the world.

7. Sell it on Ebay for twice the cost of its parts.

8. Repeatedly repeat the above steps changing only the serial number.
Actually the above sounds like those "Myticisim" PC based chess computers they have out there
dont really know all that much about them

The Phoenix Rulez Regards
Steve
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Post by sje »

Steve B wrote:Actually the above sounds like those "Myticisim" PC based chess computers they have out there
Yes and no.

The Mysticum effort is impressive and I appreciate the practitioners' goals, but these goals aren't the same as those of my proposal.

Most Mysticum systems are one-of-a-kind prototypes.

Some rely upon sub-assemblies taken from out-of-production dedicated models.

I don't believe that any Mysticum systems have piece recognition.

Most have boards much smaller than the smallest (5 cm square) accepted tournament size.

Minimization of total component cost is a high priority of a typical Mysticum system.

--------

For my purposes of general chess use, piece recognition is very important. I've thought of several different ways of doing this, but none are as good as the DGT approach. The cheapest way is to use a peg system with one to four conductive metal bands on each peg. Each square has a socket which sends the peg's piece code (if any) to a microcontroller for identification.

Another way is to use four cameras mounted on poles on the corners of the board and have scene recognition software determine the position. This would work much the NASA's martian rovers use multiple cameras to avoid driving into pot holes.

An alternative version of the camera method uses ultraviolet paint on the pieces to show bar codes to a UV sensitive camera set.

Another idea, already done a few years back by someone else, is to print bar codes on the bottom of each piece and then have an optical scanner read the position from underneath a translucent board surface.

But overall, the best idea is to pay US$770 for a DGT board and piece set.
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Post by Steve B »

sje wrote:

Another way is to use four cameras mounted on poles on the corners of the board and have scene recognition software determine the position. This would work much the NASA's martian rovers use multiple cameras to avoid driving into pot holes.
This sounds interesting
keep us informed if you decide to go this route

Martian Chronicles Regards
Steve
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