Comments on the Revelation II dedicated chess computer
Moderators: Harvey Williamson, Steve B, Watchman
Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the fen tag before the upgrade.
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the fen tag before the upgrade.
to Carl Bicknell:
1)RII comes with commercial engines Hiarcs (2800+ on SSDF) and Shredder (2700 something). Included is freeware such as Fruit, Toga and Ruffian, as well as a freeware version of Rybka. These are all on about 2500 Elo. Already available is the optional commerial engine The Baron. All these engines can be slowed down by the system, one can play with Hiarcs for example at 1% on a elo level of about 2200-2300. You can play with commercial PC programs on the bluetooth connected board, under e-board mode. Furthermore if you take the emulation option you get a load of 1700-2200 rated "old" programs.
2)You can play with UCI or Winboard engines of your choice onboard Rev II with the included PCSengine Server. Meaning using the PC as hardware but controlling the engine from RevII.
3)It's as strong as you allow it to be I guess.
Xavier
1)RII comes with commercial engines Hiarcs (2800+ on SSDF) and Shredder (2700 something). Included is freeware such as Fruit, Toga and Ruffian, as well as a freeware version of Rybka. These are all on about 2500 Elo. Already available is the optional commerial engine The Baron. All these engines can be slowed down by the system, one can play with Hiarcs for example at 1% on a elo level of about 2200-2300. You can play with commercial PC programs on the bluetooth connected board, under e-board mode. Furthermore if you take the emulation option you get a load of 1700-2200 rated "old" programs.
2)You can play with UCI or Winboard engines of your choice onboard Rev II with the included PCSengine Server. Meaning using the PC as hardware but controlling the engine from RevII.
3)It's as strong as you allow it to be I guess.
Xavier
-
- Member
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 10:06 pm
xchessg wrote:to Carl Bicknell:
1)RII comes with commercial engines Hiarcs (2800+ on SSDF) and Shredder (2700 something). Included is freeware such as Fruit, Toga and Ruffian, as well as a freeware version of Rybka. These are all on about 2500 Elo. Already available is the optional commerial engine The Baron. All these engines can be slowed down by the system, one can play with Hiarcs for example at 1% on a elo level of about 2200-2300. You can play with commercial PC programs on the bluetooth connected board, under e-board mode. Furthermore if you take the emulation option you get a load of 1700-2200 rated "old" programs.
2)You can play with UCI or Winboard engines of your choice onboard Rev II with the included PCSengine Server. Meaning using the PC as hardware but controlling the engine from RevII.
3)It's as strong as you allow it to be I guess.
Xavier
Thank you that was extremely helpful.
-
- Member
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:30 pm
Hi Carl,
You might have spotted this already, but for entertainment value only - here is a RevII beating up an older computer -
http://www.tauntonchessclub.co.uk/tcc/?p=1065
Part I, for those willing to witness the most one-sided contest ever, is here -
http://www.tauntonchessclub.co.uk/tcc/?p=996
You might have spotted this already, but for entertainment value only - here is a RevII beating up an older computer -
http://www.tauntonchessclub.co.uk/tcc/?p=1065
Part I, for those willing to witness the most one-sided contest ever, is here -
http://www.tauntonchessclub.co.uk/tcc/?p=996
-
- Member
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 10:06 pm
How does the opening book work on this thing with emulations? So if load the Vancouver 68000 will it also load the Vancouver's original book or just a generic one? Like wise if I switch to another engine (say the London) does the opening book change accordingly?xchessg wrote:to Carl Bicknell:
1)RII comes with commercial engines Hiarcs (2800+ on SSDF) and Shredder (2700 something). Included is freeware such as Fruit, Toga and Ruffian, as well as a freeware version of Rybka. These are all on about 2500 Elo. Already available is the optional commerial engine The Baron. All these engines can be slowed down by the system, one can play with Hiarcs for example at 1% on a elo level of about 2200-2300. You can play with commercial PC programs on the bluetooth connected board, under e-board mode. Furthermore if you take the emulation option you get a load of 1700-2200 rated "old" programs.
2)You can play with UCI or Winboard engines of your choice onboard Rev II with the included PCSengine Server. Meaning using the PC as hardware but controlling the engine from RevII.
3)It's as strong as you allow it to be I guess.
Xavier
-
- Member
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 10:06 pm
Taunton chess club!Staplegrove wrote:Hi Carl,
You might have spotted this already, but for entertainment value only - here is a RevII beating up an older computer -
http://www.tauntonchessclub.co.uk/tcc/?p=1065
Part I, for those willing to witness the most one-sided contest ever, is here -
http://www.tauntonchessclub.co.uk/tcc/?p=996
I'm very sorry I didn't get to play for you this season, how's it going?
(So does the club own the Revelation II?)
HiCarl Bicknell wrote:How does the opening book work on this thing with emulations? So if load the Vancouver 68000 will it also load the Vancouver's original book or just a generic one? Like wise if I switch to another engine (say the London) does the opening book change accordingly?
The programs work within the emulated hardware environment just like they did on the real machines; So each emulation comes with the original book.
Xavier
Hi Guys,
I've been away for some long while sorting out my complicated life in a way that has blocked quality time with the Revelation II.... until last week that is. Mercifully I have been able to play and generally fiddle around with this wonderful machine for whole days. A real treat. By the way I have the Phoenix Rev II with the Ebony pieces, the timeless set and the very special BCE DGT set from our good friend ifekali. I've also got the emulations which are excellent and a joy to use. My favorite chess pieces are the BCE which combine a certain vintage slender delicacy with a subtle modern feel. Playing with this superb set does provide some comfort when I'm getting my arse kicked which is a regular occurrence at the moment
Anyway, I thought I would jot down a few suggestions for improving the user experience. I have found the most direct way to dumb down an engine like Hiarcs (my personal favorite) is to adjust the ELO scale and the level (30 secs per move) and not worry about much else. Unless I'm missing something it seems you cannot save engine settings like speed percentage, ponder off, hint off, ELO Limit strength, book style etc. I reckon it would be a great idea to have 4 or 5 presets. When in the 'option on' menu you could set the level, engine and associated parameters of choice and save them to a preset. The basic menu could then have a load preset function and you could choose to load the preset of choice and off you go. In fact you could have presets with different engines, styles of play and playing strengths which would be fun. Also I do wish the hint function was set to 'off' as a default rather than the other way around.
To be honest, if none of these changes occur I can easily live with scrolling through the menu's before a game. Overall, the Revelation II chess computer is quite superb and something I will enjoy for the rest of my life.
Best Wishes,
Paul H
I've been away for some long while sorting out my complicated life in a way that has blocked quality time with the Revelation II.... until last week that is. Mercifully I have been able to play and generally fiddle around with this wonderful machine for whole days. A real treat. By the way I have the Phoenix Rev II with the Ebony pieces, the timeless set and the very special BCE DGT set from our good friend ifekali. I've also got the emulations which are excellent and a joy to use. My favorite chess pieces are the BCE which combine a certain vintage slender delicacy with a subtle modern feel. Playing with this superb set does provide some comfort when I'm getting my arse kicked which is a regular occurrence at the moment
Anyway, I thought I would jot down a few suggestions for improving the user experience. I have found the most direct way to dumb down an engine like Hiarcs (my personal favorite) is to adjust the ELO scale and the level (30 secs per move) and not worry about much else. Unless I'm missing something it seems you cannot save engine settings like speed percentage, ponder off, hint off, ELO Limit strength, book style etc. I reckon it would be a great idea to have 4 or 5 presets. When in the 'option on' menu you could set the level, engine and associated parameters of choice and save them to a preset. The basic menu could then have a load preset function and you could choose to load the preset of choice and off you go. In fact you could have presets with different engines, styles of play and playing strengths which would be fun. Also I do wish the hint function was set to 'off' as a default rather than the other way around.
To be honest, if none of these changes occur I can easily live with scrolling through the menu's before a game. Overall, the Revelation II chess computer is quite superb and something I will enjoy for the rest of my life.
Best Wishes,
Paul H
-
- Member
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 10:06 pm
-
- Member
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:30 pm
All IMHO -
They are both completely head and shoulders over all other dedicated computers due to their design and method of use. The piece recognition (with no reed switches) is so natural, the four leds per square and large display made playing with each absolutely luxurious.
To own or use either is a joy and a privilege. I have a RevII now, but did own a R30 for many years. I so do regret selling it - more so than any other I've owned and sold. Because of this, I will never sell the RevII.
Putting aside big issues like price and collectability, for me the RevII is my favourite for the following reasons (in no particular order..) -
* Stronger than all humans (with possibly 1 or 2 exceptions), whereas the Tasc is several hundred ELO weaker.
* Variety of high end engines - gives variety of playing styles, lines etc.
* Emulations - love this - after being beating up by Hiarcs, I can load an old Rebel version and give the RevII a kicking! It does run these faster than the originals though, and I struggle to beat the Polgars here, but could beat a std 5Mhz Polgar easily.
* Very high end look and feel - Tasc was very good, but RevII is better.
* Range of alternative pieces available both officially and third party
* DGT background - future servicing, parts etc.. hopefully DGT will be around long term, whereas Tasc vanished quickly (IIRC this was a patent/copyright issue)
* Can be used as bluetooth standalone (not done this), but means it can always be linked to the strongest PC program, so no buyers remorse in the future when computers hit 4000ELO and you've paid $$$$ for 'only' 2800...
* Software upgrades - already had a couple and improvements have been made.
* Future emulations - there was talk of a Tasc R30 emulation (which would be great), and personally I'd also some some Fidelity and Sargon emulations to re-live some of the old days.
The R30 is/was great, but is essentially a subset of the RevII - and if Ruud ever brings out a R30 emulation, then the RevII would be one step closer to perfection!
They are both completely head and shoulders over all other dedicated computers due to their design and method of use. The piece recognition (with no reed switches) is so natural, the four leds per square and large display made playing with each absolutely luxurious.
To own or use either is a joy and a privilege. I have a RevII now, but did own a R30 for many years. I so do regret selling it - more so than any other I've owned and sold. Because of this, I will never sell the RevII.
Putting aside big issues like price and collectability, for me the RevII is my favourite for the following reasons (in no particular order..) -
* Stronger than all humans (with possibly 1 or 2 exceptions), whereas the Tasc is several hundred ELO weaker.
* Variety of high end engines - gives variety of playing styles, lines etc.
* Emulations - love this - after being beating up by Hiarcs, I can load an old Rebel version and give the RevII a kicking! It does run these faster than the originals though, and I struggle to beat the Polgars here, but could beat a std 5Mhz Polgar easily.
* Very high end look and feel - Tasc was very good, but RevII is better.
* Range of alternative pieces available both officially and third party
* DGT background - future servicing, parts etc.. hopefully DGT will be around long term, whereas Tasc vanished quickly (IIRC this was a patent/copyright issue)
* Can be used as bluetooth standalone (not done this), but means it can always be linked to the strongest PC program, so no buyers remorse in the future when computers hit 4000ELO and you've paid $$$$ for 'only' 2800...
* Software upgrades - already had a couple and improvements have been made.
* Future emulations - there was talk of a Tasc R30 emulation (which would be great), and personally I'd also some some Fidelity and Sargon emulations to re-live some of the old days.
The R30 is/was great, but is essentially a subset of the RevII - and if Ruud ever brings out a R30 emulation, then the RevII would be one step closer to perfection!
- Steve B
- Site Admin
- Posts: 10144
- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
- Location: New York City USofA
- Contact:
Well as a collector I bring a different perspective to this question
there really is no comparison between these two computers
the Rev II(as well as the Rev I)have far more features then the Tasc R30/40
However I do not prefer one over the other
I consider all 4 computers as crucial additions to my collection
its like comparing an old classic car(say a 1964 Dodge Challenger..100% restored) to a 2014 Rolls Royce..(you want both if you can afford it)
the Tasc computers have a certain amount of elegance to them that is hard to describe..not as massive as the Rev's ...and yet not too small
plush wood and nice pieces..
I like the fact that the program unit is apart from the main board
if I was forced to make a painful choice between a Tasc or a Rev i would
go with the Tasc ..because I tend to prefer older things to newer things
Luddite Regards
Steve
there really is no comparison between these two computers
the Rev II(as well as the Rev I)have far more features then the Tasc R30/40
However I do not prefer one over the other
I consider all 4 computers as crucial additions to my collection
its like comparing an old classic car(say a 1964 Dodge Challenger..100% restored) to a 2014 Rolls Royce..(you want both if you can afford it)
the Tasc computers have a certain amount of elegance to them that is hard to describe..not as massive as the Rev's ...and yet not too small
plush wood and nice pieces..
I like the fact that the program unit is apart from the main board
if I was forced to make a painful choice between a Tasc or a Rev i would
go with the Tasc ..because I tend to prefer older things to newer things
Luddite Regards
Steve
-
- Member
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 10:06 pm
THIS.Steve B wrote:
I like the fact that the program unit is apart from the main board
Why has no one else done this? This simple step would allow:
i) A more naturally thin board
ii) The user can get closer to the pieces without the engine module getting in the way, requiring me to crane my neck
iii) Future upgrades are waaayyy more simple: The board is untouched just upgrade / exchange the program unit.
I think a real winner would be an A1 electronic chessboard with a small socket allowing a variety of units to be connected to it.
- Steve B
- Site Admin
- Posts: 10144
- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:02 am
- Location: New York City USofA
- Contact:
I can think of only two other computer models that had the separate program unit apart from the playing boardCarl Bicknell wrote:THIS.Steve B wrote:
I like the fact that the program unit is apart from the main board
Why has no one else done this? This simple step would allow:
i) A more naturally thin board
ii) The user can get closer to the pieces without the engine module getting in the way, requiring me to crane my neck
The Fidelity Elite Privat and Elite Private Line Models
here ...the unit displayed the computers moves via the LCD display and LEDS on top of the unit
the board itself had no LEDS..so you could look at the board without any distractions what so ever
as you mentioned the wooden board was very thin
A Nice Feature Regards
Steve
- fourthirty
- Full Member
- Posts: 763
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:46 pm
- Location: San Francisco
While not a "dedicated" computer, a DGT USB Board driven by PicoChess running on a Raspberry Pi comes very close to this experience at a somewhat reasonable cost when compared to the TASC & RevII (under $1k USD).Steve B wrote:I can think of only two other computer models that had the separate program unit apart from the playing boardCarl Bicknell wrote:THIS.Steve B wrote:
I like the fact that the program unit is apart from the main board
Why has no one else done this? This simple step would allow:
i) A more naturally thin board
ii) The user can get closer to the pieces without the engine module getting in the way, requiring me to crane my neck
The Fidelity Elite Privat and Elite Private Line Models
here ...the unit displayed the computers moves via the LCD display and LEDS on top of the unit
the board itself had no LEDS..so you could look at the board without any distractions what so ever
as you mentioned the wooden board was very thin
A Nice Feature Regards
Steve
Thoughts?
I scout local chessclubs for broken DGT serial boards (only serial boards are used in tournaments), swap them for a clock or a nice chess set (€40), two if they can spare the pieces also (€40). If not I go to Gregor Novak of Noj, to make me a DGT compatible BCE (http://bestchesmenever.com) set. (But that's me, you might want to check for DGT pieces on eBay.)fourthirty wrote: While not a "dedicated" computer, a DGT USB Board driven by PicoChess running on a Raspberry Pi comes very close to this experience at a somewhat reasonable cost when compared to the TASC & RevII (under $1k USD).
Thoughts?
I then order serial-to-USB conversion kit direct from DGT (€105 + tax) and simply swap out the electronics. Voila, I have a DGT USB board!
Connect to a Raspberry Pi (€35), load Picochess (free), I'm all set up. BINGO!
-Izmet
P.S. I was forced to do this three times already. There's always some local GM that sees the things and snatches it out of my hands.
Excellent idea. Agree 100% Paulpaulhuk wrote:
... I reckon it would be a great idea to have 4 or 5 presets. When in the 'option on' menu you could set the level, engine and associated parameters of choice and save them to a preset. The basic menu could then have a load preset function and you could choose to load the preset of choice and off you go. In fact you could have presets with different engines, styles of play and playing strengths ...
Paul H