Thoughts on the DGT chessboard

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sje
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Thoughts on the DGT chessboard

Post by sje »

Thoughts on the DGT chessboard

See: http://www.dgtprojects.com/site/index.p ... nic-boards

Pro:

1. Nice wood board and nice wood pieces, both tournament size

2. Five different piece sets available

3. The only chess set to have piece recognition

4. Both wired and wireless versions available

5. Years of use in world class events

6. Can interface with a DGT XL clock

7. Optional spiffy carrying bag

8. Can interface with several chess applications and chess servers

Con:

1. Price is high at US$800 to US$1,400 depending on model and options

2. No signalling LEDs on board (some might say this is an advantage)

3. Bundled software is Windows only

4. Linux and Mac OS/X users will have to write their own drivers

5. Internal battery in wireless model will need replacement after a few hundred charge cycles

6. File/rank letters/digits on some models including the only wireless model (some might say this is an advantage)

7. The DGT XL clock has a noisy lever instead of a pair of silent touch pads
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

Build yourself a Solus Chess board that enables you to connect to either a PC, iPad or Android.

http://usbchessboard.yolasite.com

USB Regards
Bryan
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sje
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Post by sje »

I already have a Novag Citrine which I've connected to a Mac. What the Citrine doesn't have is what I really want: piece recognition.
Celadus
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Re: Thoughts on the DGT chessboard

Post by Celadus »

sje wrote:Thoughts on the DGT chessboard

See: http://www.dgtprojects.com/site/index.p ... nic-boards

Pro:

1. Nice wood board and nice wood pieces, both tournament size

2. Five different piece sets available

3. The only chess set to have piece recognition

4. Both wired and wireless versions available

5. Years of use in world class events

6. Can interface with a DGT XL clock

7. Optional spiffy carrying bag

8. Can interface with several chess applications and chess servers

Con:

1. Price is high at US$800 to US$1,400 depending on model and options

2. No signalling LEDs on board (some might say this is an advantage)

3. Bundled software is Windows only

4. Linux and Mac OS/X users will have to write their own drivers

5. Internal battery in wireless model will need replacement after a few hundred charge cycles

6. File/rank letters/digits on some models including the only wireless model (some might say this is an advantage)

7. The DGT XL clock has a noisy lever instead of a pair of silent touch pads
The main advantage of the DTG board is the connection to a computer.
The computer can have a large variety of chess programes available,which means many styles of play and choice of elo settings.
Another advantage is once a game is completed it can immediatley be saved and the game analysed by the programe of your choice.

For what you get the DGT board is not over priced.
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sje
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Wired or wireless?

Post by sje »

The DGT chessboard comes in two wired versions (serial and USB) and one wireless version (Bluetooth). The serial version is intended for multiple board tournament events and nominally requires additional DGT hardware and software.

The USB version can record a game without an attached computer, but needs a computer to read the stored game. The Bluetooth version is the same in this respect, except the attachment is done wirelessly. In both cases, driver and application software is needed, and only Windows versions of these are supported by DGT.

The Bluetooth version has an internal lithium gel battery pack which will need replaced every few hundred charge cycles. A new pack might cost about US$20.

The USB scans the piece recognition raster at a rate of 4 Hz while the Bluetooth version does better with a rate of 6 Hz. This might only be noticeable with very fast blitz games, and who uses a nice, expensive wooden set in blitz?

The USB version price is about US$770 compared to about US$1,000 for the Bluetooth version. The USB version has several different woods available, some with letter/digit labels and some without. The Bluetooth version has only a rosewood board and the letter/number labels are included, whether you like them or not.

For retail prices and some other data, I've used the page at:
http://www.chesshouse.com/dgt_electroni ... _s/361.htm

There are six different piece sets. The default Timeless set might be my first choice; only it comes with no extra cost and the style is decent although I prefer a French or Eastern European knight over a German knight. The Ebony set is nice, but it costs an extra US$200 and the bishop's mitre looks a bit fragile.
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Post by sje »

I've decided to buy the USB version of the DGT chess board and the Royal piece set. Those, plus a carrying bag and a copy of Fritz comes to about US$960.

I'll also have to buy an inexpensive Windows 8 computer for configuring and testing the board until I can write my own Unix drivers. That's another US$300 or so. Once debugged, I'll probably publicly release my C++ driver code so that others might be spared doing the same work.

The DGT board will be worth the price, as I'll modify my own chess program Symbolic to use the board to better help test the program's search and evaluation code. Symbolic can us its voice synthesis output to compensate for the board's lack of signalling LEDs. Just for laughs I might have the speech output use English Descriptive Notation, just like a HAL 9000.

I note that many of the best ideas in computer chess programming were discovered before there were any chess graphical user interfaces. Having the physical pieces present can only help with future endeavors.
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Post by sje »

I note that the DGT board technology used in the Revelation II set also includes four corner LED signalling on the board itself, similar to the four corner LEDs on the Novag Citrine. There was a report that DGT would offer four corner LEDs on a future model, but I haven't seen one for sale.

Somehow I get the feeling that this newer model will soon be announced -- on the day after I place an order for the current version.
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Post by Steve B »

sje wrote:I note that the DGT board technology used in the Revelation II set also includes four corner LED signalling on the board itself, similar to the four corner LEDs on the Novag Citrine. There was a report that DGT would offer four corner LEDs on a future model, but I haven't seen one for sale.

Somehow I get the feeling that this newer model will soon be announced -- on the day after I place an order for the current version.
Actually
The 81 LED's and the board technology in the REV ll is the same as the Rev I board which had nothing to do with DGT technology
I believe DGT's main contribution to the Rev II board is the Piece Recognition technology
so its not at all clear that DGT will be releasing 81 led boards any time soon
it is certainly possible that DGT can release 64 or 81 Led boards in the future based upon Ruud's Technology... so be safe ..it probably makes some sense to wait at least 1 year after the Rev ll's release to see what DGT does
of course you could always buy the DGT board now and then buy another one if LED boards are eventually sold

Unclear Regards
Steve
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sje
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Post by sje »

Steve B wrote:The 81 LED's and the board technology in the REV ll is the same as the Rev I board which had nothing to do with DGT technology
I believe DGT's main contribution to the Rev II board is the Piece Recognition technology
so its not at all clear that DGT will be releasing 81 led boards any time soon
it is certainly possible that DGT can release 64 or 81 Led boards in the future based upon Ruud's Technology... so be safe ..it probably makes some sense to wait at least 1 year after the Rev ll's release to see what DGT does
of course you could always buy the DGT board now and then buy another one if LED boards are eventually sold
I think that the DGT board sees most of it sales to event organizers, usually in Europe. A network of DGT boards using a DGT hub is very convenient for live broadcast of an event. But for these sales, an 81 LED board is not necessary. So, DGT must rely upon sales of an 81 LED board to individuals and I don't think that market is very large. Mostly it would be for those with lots of spare cash and who play chess over the Internet using a remote server.

I pretty sure that if an LED signalling board is made by DGT, then it will be an 81 LED version and not a 64 LED version. I've use both arrangements and the 81 LED version is much superior, particularly for larger boards.
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Post by Steve B »

sje wrote:
I pretty sure that if an LED signalling board is made by DGT, then it will be an 81 LED version and not a 64 LED version. I've use both arrangements and the 81 LED version is much superior, particularly for larger boards.
That is a matter of personal taste i guess
personally i am distracted when i play on boards with 8 flashing lights(to and from squares) on each and every move ..specially Blitz games
i prefer 64 Leds..2 lights go on..and your done
there were some large high-end wooden auto sensory boards with only 16 Leds(denoting rank and file of the move)
and even some high-end wooden auto sensory chess computers that made an attempt to keep the board totally free of any distracting LED's ...much like the DGT board but released many years before it
that necessitated the display and program module to be a separate unit apart from the board attached by cable

Easily Distracted Regards
Steve
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Post by SirDave »

Personally, I think the lack of LEDs on the DGT board is very short-sighted. My guess is that they would be selling a lot more of the usb & wireless boards if they had LEDs. I'm sure that those with high club level Elos and beyond know the squares instantly without help, but chess peons in the weeds like me have to go through a momentary mental coordinate search. I'm not so willing to do that with a board that costs $1000 USD.
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Post by sje »

Steve B wrote:personally i am distracted when i play on boards with 8 flashing lights(to and from squares) on each and every move ..specially Blitz games
i prefer 64 Leds..2 lights go on..and your done
there were some large high-end wooden auto sensory boards with only 16 Leds(denoting rank and file of the move)
and even some high-end wooden auto sensory chess computers that made an attempt to keep the board totally free of any distracting LED's ...much like the DGT board but released many years before it
that necessitated the display and program module to be a separate unit apart from the board attached by cable
I can see your point. When I first got my Citrine, it was sometimes a little confusing when the from/to square were orthogonally adjacent, particularly if the move was a capture.

The 64 LED arrangement works best for smaller boards where a typical viewing angle means less chance of an obstruction of an LED by a piece. For a lower viewing angle, having four LEDs per square means a near certainty of seeing at least two LEDs lighted.

Although it would cost more, I'd consider a 256 LED board and the use of bi-color or tri-color LEDs. A bi-color LED is actually a red LED and a green LED in the same package. A tri-color LED is the same except that both elements can be active at the same time, producing a yellow light. But all could be confusing to someone with color-deficient vision.
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Post by Theo »

sje wrote: Although it would cost more, I'd consider a 256 LED board and the use of bi-color or tri-color LEDs.
Wow, that chess board would look like a Christmas tree.

I'd prefer unobtrusive 81 LEDs hidden under a thin woodish looking coating, so that the board looks like a normal board until the LEDs are on.

I enjoy chess computers, but when playing I even cover up the display of my Revelation and it really bothers me to have those buttons between me and the already enormous sized board.

Kind Regards,
Theo
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Post by ricard60 »

I use to travel a lot and a DGT board allways need a computer around. Thats why dedicated chess machine are all in one idea. Probably some are not battery operated but once you get in place just plug and play no need for computer. Some of them can store a lots of games in it and is possible to analyze and replay with other engines. DGT board is not like a dedicated chess machine.
For leds on the board i like most 64 or 81 but does not bother when i play even with a 16 led board.

Not the same regards
Ricardo
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Post by sje »

Modern LEDs can be made very small and very bright; not like the fat, red-only LEDs from the Old Days. Having a small, bright LED in each corner of each square is not technically difficult, although such would add to the cost of manufacture relative to a single LED per square configuration.

Perhaps in a few years, it will be possible to have LCD/LED tablet with piece sensors underneath the size of a regular board with a total cost less than a wood/LED equivalent.

Another idea is to mount a small, low power red laser a half meter above one side of the board and use a pair of servo controlled mirrors to steer the beam. A computer would issue servo commands to have the beam indicate the from/to squares.

The ultimate solution would be to have an industrial quality robotic arm large enough to move the pieces but small enough to fit on the chess table. These cost about US$4,000 to US$5,000. The arm would have to be run at a fairly slow speed so as to not injure an inadvertently positioned human arm.
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