Saitek Kasparov Turbostar 2600 Chess Computer.

[Larry]

It's my understanding that it was released in modular form as RISC2
under the Mephisto flag. It can't be a re badged Montreux because the
program author is different.
For them to show a picture of Turbostar 2600 does not mean one
or more exist. It was probably only ever just that, a picture. I also find
it regrettable that the unit was never released. Had there been a short
production run of just a few hundred of them they would make for
some fiery bidding wars on ebay.
L

[Larry]

Unless I am mistaken, both the Turbostar 2600 chess computer and the Mephisto Montreux chess computer have the same 256 KB King program. So wasn't the programmer of both the Montreux and the Turbostar 2600 chess computers Johan de Koning? On the right side on the front of the Turbostar 2600 it does say ''1992 World Champion Program''.

It clearly states Ed Schroder as the author:
http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... ostar_2600

Here's another unit built into the same plastic housing and
same program author, same fate:
http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... athon_2400

We can add these to the recent thread on regrettable manufacturing
decisions from the heyday of chess computers.
L

[Steve B]

One has to wonder if there are any existing Mephisto Montreux chess computers with either 256 KB RAM OR 2 MB RAM.

While the Risc 2500 was released from the factory with RAM from 128KB to 2MB

the Montreux was only released with 128KB RAM
any Montreux with more then this has been modified

Ramesees Regards
Steve

[Larry]

I'm sitting here now with a real Montreux at my side, and comparing it
with the TurboStar2600 in the picture. On the right there is a logo of a
chess piece, a knight, with a globe in the background. This is on a stick-on
plastic overlay, not on the plastic casing proper, and it includes the text,
"256KB KING PROGRAM". Just under that again, and on a separate plastic
overlay, is written, "ARM6 RISC PROCESSOR".
On the TS2600 in the picture the logo is the same but the text different.
Note the info on the display is fairly obviously fake.
Maybe I've been watching too much Sherlock Holmes, but it seems to
me that the picture is one of a Montreux with the two shiny plastic
overlays on the right having been overlayed again with the new stickers,
which had already been produced.
Yes, there are a couple of other differences also. The control panel in the
picture has different text. This would be because the control panel itself
is a separate, clip-in segment of shaped plastic which would also have
been produced as a pilot project.
Now for the playing surface. They come in slightly different colors for
different computers all designed for the same housing. I can't make out
in the picture if the TS2600 and Montreux share the same playing surface
colors. That would'nt be a problem, they would have had access to a
playing surface mat from a variety of other machines to present for the
photo. The housing itself is common to other machines in the
Tandy/Radio Shack/Saitek range.
Having said this, I'd like you and others to keep an eye out for me, I'm
after one of the rare TurboStar2600's myself, if there is such a thing. I
just think is no such animal.
L

[Steve B]

Having said this, I'd like you and others to keep an eye out for me, I'm
after one of the rare TurboStar2600's myself, if there is such a thing. I
just think is no such animal.
L

dont hold your breath Larry
it was never released for sale

More Vapor Ware Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

One would think that all of the Saitek Risc 2500 chess computers were released from the factory with the standard 128 KB RAM, and that those Risc 2500 chess computers that have been upgraded to 2 MB RAM, were either sent back to Saitek to have them upgraded or were modified by the purchaser to 2 MB RAM. I have never seen on any website devoted to chess computers any official verification from Saitek that Saitek ever originally released the Risc 2500 chess computer from the factory with 2MB RAM.

sorry your wrong
i ordered my Risc 2500 with 2 MB from my normal chess computer supplier back in the 90's who got it direct from Saitek
chess computer collecting originates well before the advent of internet websites

Same is true for my Saitek Renassiance Sparc module-4MB
right from my supplier who got it from Saitek

Way It Is Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

Undoubtedly,a purchaser of Mephisto Montreux in 1995 or 1996, could have sent his Mephisto Montreux back to Saitek to have it upgraded to 2MB RAM.

wrong again
Mephisto...Saitek or Mephisto/Saitek never performed/offered any factory authorized Montreux RAM upgrades

Next Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

Thanks for the information Steve regarding the Saitek Risc 2500 chess computer. It sounds like your Saitek Risc 2500 chess computer is what is termed a ''special order''. In other words, your chess computer supplier back then probably had to request Saitek to make a 2MB RAM Risc 2500 chess computer for you. Stores probably did not carry a 2MB RAM version of the Risc 2500 chess computer in stock. Where did you read official verification from Saitek that they never upgraded any Mephisto Montreuxs to 2MB RAM?

Special order ??
nope
the supplier had several in stock for sale

official verification?
i only know what took place at the time
i wanted a Montreux with more Ram but was it not possible to get it
i post about the facts and circumstances on the ground ..in the day...
its your choice to believe it or not

"Official" Reply Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

Hello Steve. Not to be picky, but in your message posted at 6:50 PM on February 27, 2014 you stated that regarding your Saitek Risc 2500 2MB chess computer that your chess computer supplier ''had several in stock for sale'', whereas in your earlier message posted at 6:26 PM on the same date, you stated that you ''ordered'' your Risc2500 2MB chess computer from your chess computer supplier, which indicates that you did not buy it off the shelf in a store, and therefore your message posted at 6:50 PM contradicts your message posted at 6:26 PM..........Best Wishes, Mike.

Well by "ordered" i meant i called him up on the phone and asked him to send me the R2500-2MB ...which he had in stock
This Message Posted on March 2,2014 at 5.28 AM Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

It is very unlikely that most electronics stores like Radio Shack or stores like The Sharper Image were carrying the 2MB version of the Risc 2500 chess computer in stock.

Your stating what time you posted your message is redundant.

this conversation is getting redundant
no where do i mention anything about chess computer's sold in Radio Shack's or any other walk in retail chain stores
in fact...out of my 500+ chess computes acquired over the past 36+ years i probably bought no more then a dozen in any walk-in retail store
the fact remains.. Saitek sold Risc 2500's with 2MB already installed(and also with lesser ram configurations) and Mephisto never sold anything other then Montreux's with 128k..to anybody..and Saitek/Mephisto never offered Montreux Ram Upgrades
Beating A Dead Horse Here Regards
Steve

[SirDave]

...It is very unlikely that most electronics stores like Radio Shack or stores like The Sharper Image were carrying the 2MB version of the Risc 2500 chess computer in stock. Since Saitek apparently manufactured many more 1MB Risc 2500 chess computers than the 2MB version, most electronics stores ,if they had the Risc 2500 chess computer in stock, would have had the 1MB version. Ordering a product is not the same thing as walking into a store and buying a product off the shelf. I can see what time you posted your message. Your stating what time you posted your message is redundant. I mentioned the times you posted your 2 messages, so that it would be clear as to which messages I was referring to in my response.That should have been obvious. I guess it was not.

7Chessfan7, you sound more like a lawyer questioning someone on the stand than someone discussing a subject that (from all the questions you are asking elsewhere) you apparently know little about. There is a lot of direct information missing about many dedicated chess computers since so many of them were produced before the formative period of the internet (the mid to late 1990s).

How do you know how much memory a Risc 2500 might have had in stores particularly since it was produced in 1992? Not to mention that it is unlikely that Radio Shack was selling the Saitek Risc 2500 and beyond probability that a store like Sharper Image would have.

Actually, I don't know that much about the specifics of a lot of boards sold in the 1990s and before so I rely more on people like Steve who is among a relative handful who were actively buying many units during that period.

[SirDave]

Hello SirDave. First, I went to a Sharper Image store near me numerous times back then, and never saw a single Saitek Risc 2500 chess computer in that store, nor did I ever see a single Risc 2500 chess computer at either of the 2 Radio Shack stores near me. I used to collect The Sharper Image catalogs and never saw a Risc 2500 chess computer listed in their catalog. So your statement that it is ''beyond probability that a store like Sharper Image would have'' had a Risc 2500 chess computer is wrong.

By my poorly-chosen term, 'beyond probability', I meant 'highly improbable'. So, from your statement above, we are apparently in agreement that the Risc2500 would not have been in RS or SI. Which raises the question, why, if you never saw the Risc 2500 at either of these stores and you never saw it in the Sharper Image catalog, did you say, 'It is very unlikely that most electronics stores like Radio Shack or stores like The Sharper Image were carrying the 2MB version of the Risc 2500 chess computer in stock. ' which implies that that those stores carried the Risc 2500 with 1MB.

Second, the available evidence is that Saitek manufactured more Risc 2500 chess computers with 1MB RAM than those with 2MB RAM. The website www.elpeon.com. has an extensive list of various chess computers from a variety of manufacturers auctioned and sold on the various Ebay.com. websites. According to the list on that website, from December 10, 2005 to March 16, 2010, 26 Saitek Risc 2500 chess computers were auctioned and sold on the various Ebay.com. websites, 18 of which were the 1MB version and only 8 of which were the 2MB version. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that (1) most of the Risc 2500 chess computers that Saitek manufactured were the 1MB version, and (2) retail stores, if they carried the Risc 2500 chess computer in stock, most likely had the 1MB version not the 2MB version. If Saitek had manufactured more Risc 2500 chess computers with 2MB RAM than those with 1MB RAM, you would certainly see a lot more Risc 2500 2MB RAM chess computers appearing on the various Ebay.com. websites.

Perhaps your logic is correct when it comes to the overall numbers of the Risc 2500 with 1MB vs. 2MB, but that doesn't mean you can be sure that the Risc 2500 with 2MB wasn't available in stores or that SteveB must have had to special order the 2MB version from a dealer.

Third, it is very unlikely that only a ''handful'' of chess computer fans were purchasing multiple chess computers during the 1990's. A ''handful' is five, and it is very unlikely that only 5 people in the world during the 1990's were purchasing multiple chess computers.

Sometimes the application of logic to an extreme can result in misinformation such as drawing conclusions based on what was really a moment of levity that someone individually counted the number of openings in the Montreux. Still, let's have some fun with logic: One definition of 'handful' means 'the amount one can hold in one's hand', not a number that is equal to the number of fingers. If you think of it logically, the amount one can hold in one's hand could be as few as one if it is a large rock or in the thousands if we are talking about a handful of sand and we are counting grains of sand. But, the fact is, by 'handful' I meant what is probably the most frequent definition: 'A small, undefined number or quantity'.

A frequent topic for discussion on this forum has to do with dedicated chess computers. It is apparent from these discussions that there are only a relative 'handful' of people who bought many of them- and by many, I mean MANY as in the number that SteveB acquired. Above, you dismissed my point by using the term 'multiple' which is different than 'many'.

[SirDave]

First, grammatically correct English requires that in using the words ''different than'', the word ''than'' should be followed by a clause. For example: The stream followed a different course than the map showed. Your statement did not introduce a clause after the word ''than''. Second, the word ''multiple'' is a synonym of the word ''many''. The definition of the word ''multiple'' is ''consisting of, having, or involving several or many individuals, parts, elements, relations, etc.''. Note the word ''many'' in the definition of the word ''multiple''. So you were wrong. Third, although one of the definitions of the word '''handful'' is ''the quantity or amount that the hand can hold'', a second definition of the word ''handful'' is ''a small amount, number, or quantity''. The total number of chess computer fans who during the 1990's owned two or more chess computers was undoubtedly significantly more than a mere ''handful''. Undoubtedly most people do not think in terms of grains of sand when they use the word ''handful''. They think primarily of the number five as represented by the four fingers and thumb of the hand. People don't have to purchase 500 chess computers as Steve did in order for there to have been a significant number of chess fans who owned 2 or more chess computers during the 1990's.[/i]

I notice that you spent far more time discussing grammar and definitions than addressing the points I was making. Still, without belaboring any of this further, when it comes to how we express ourselves and the facts we use to support what we are expressing, others will decide how well we are doing it.