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Ron Nelson Ever Copied, Used , Cloned the Spracklen?
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ChessChallenger
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Joined: 21 Dec 2015
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:04 pm    Post subject: Ron Nelson Reply with quote

In 2006, I was reflecting on what I had done at Excalibur. So I started a chronology spreadsheet, but never filled it out completely with details.
Here is what I wrote:
11/29/2006 PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT CHRONOLOGY

YEAR Model # PROJECT COMMENT DATE
start at Excalibur 11/1/1994
1995 750GT Gametime Chess Clock 6805 11/21/1995
1996 702E Mirage H8 6/26/1996
1996 701-E Ivan the Terrible H8 8/1/1996
1997 712-1 Ivan (2nd Generation Hardware) H8 4/11/1997
1997 747K Karpov Grandmaster H8 4/17/1997
1997 711E Igor H8 5/5/1997
1997 Excalibur Chess 6805 4K Chess 7/23/1997
1997 Sabre 6805 4K Chess 7/23/1997
1997 Squire 6805 4K Chess 7/23/1997
1997 Kingmaster II 6805 Chess & Checkers 7/23/1997
1997 Travel Kingmaster II 6805 Chess & Checkers 7/23/1997
1997 Crusader 6805 Chess & Checkers 7/23/1997
1998 366E-2 Backgammom 6805 6/1/1998
1998 761 Night Navigator 6805 6/7/1998
1998 761 Night Navigator 1.1 6805 12/18.98
1999 762 Zodiac Companion 6805 6/15/1999
-------- SABATICAL 6/15/99 to 3/1/00 --------
2000 375 LCD Computer Chess KS57 5/1/2000
2000 915 King Arthur KS57 6/5/2000
2000 763 Star Navigator 6805 8/13/2000
2000 711E-2 Igor II H8 10/4/2000
2001 404 Touch Chess KS57
2001 915-2 King Arthur 1.7 KS57
2001 377 LCD Computer Backgammon KS57
2001 901E-4 Saber IV KS57
2001 410 eChess KS57
2002 750GT-2 Gametime II Chess Clock KS57
2002 410V Talking eChess SPL191
2002 375V Talking LCD Chess SPL191
2002 712-2 Ivan II SPLB32
2002 761-P-II Night Navigator II KS57
2002 975 Chess Station KS57
2002 415 Wine Master SPLB34
2002 915-3 King Master III KS57
2003 908 Alexandra the Great SPLB32A
2003 404-1 Touch Chess (Universal) KS57
2003 404-2 Touch Chess & Checkers KS57
2003 375-1 LCD Chess (Universal) KS57
2003 375-2 LCD Chess & Checkers KS57
2003 974 NYT Electronic Chess
2003 915-3 King Arthur (Universal)
2003 414-2 Bar Master Deluxe SPLB32A 4/8/2003
2003 414-SE Wine Master Special Edition
404D Deluxe Talking Touch Chess 9/20/2003
TV-10 TV Guide Movie Master 9/12/2003
TV-30 TV Guide Electronic Crossword
2004 415-04 Wine & Spirit Master with Modules
2004 414-SE-04 Wine Master Special Edition
NY10 NYT Electronic Crossword 4/13/2004
Digital Golf Pro
Golf Master 7/20/2004
2005 Nascar Racing Pro 11/14/2005
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Steve B
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent
Thanks Ron

can I ask you to please read your PM's..again look to the top of your screen
I sent you another one ..in reply to your PM
The PM has NOTHING to do with anything being discussed here

That OK Nick With You Regards?
Steve
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Mike Watters
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Milton Keynes

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Ron Nelson Reply with quote

ChessChallenger wrote:
Thanks for your interest in me and my products.
I would not have normally engaged discussions on a forum, but I could not let anyone think I had used the Fidelity Spracklen program,
or that I had not personally programmed and designed every chess computer Excalibur manufactured in China.

I do want to get back into computer chess, I am comfortably retired enjoying life with my wife, traveling (European River cruises are fantastic),
my grand children and dancing. I am not a fan of Facebook, but I recently joined so I can record my life events,
and go backwards on the timeline to memorialize my life. I do not accept friends I do not personally know.

I do not pretend to think I am in the same league as the Spracklens, Kittinger, Lang, Morsch or Shroeder.
They are all brilliant people that, to my knowledge, worked 24/7 on their high end chess programs.
I on the other hand designed and programmed many consumer products and games. I enjoyed working at
the low end and the challenges small memory and low cost processors presented. I was proud of my
single chip 8049 2K bytes 128 byte ram chess engine. My 4-bit processor chess engine was also another
great accomplishment for me since it used sophisticated PRV and Killer Move search techniques.


Ron

Many thanks for the list of projects. I am sure people will have questions on that.
Nick and I may have come over as a little hostile but in fact all we are trying to do is establish the facts and give credit where it is due, and it seems from your post that we have the same interest at heart there. Leaving aside the Excalibur years for a moment, you are an acknowledged chess computer hero of ours for your work in the 1970s and 80s.

If you don't already know, it may be of interest to find out that you programmed more chess computers than you may have thought. These are just some of the obscure ones from the 1980s that spring to mind -

http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/izot_u30m_1042c.html
http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/intellect_-02.html
http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/veb_erfurt_sc-1.html
http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/splice_byte_xd_300.html
http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/SC_2

All the best
Mike


Last edited by Mike Watters on Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ChessChallenger
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:32 pm    Post subject: Ron Nelson Reply with quote

There have been many lengthy periods of good times and many euphoric moments of success, during my long career in the Consumer Electronics and Computer Chess field.

But all has not been rosy on my consumer computer chess timeline.

The Samole company bankruptcies were devastating. When Fidelity Electronics, Ltd. went bankrupt,I had personally loaned the company $350K to forestall the inevitable.
Then came Fidelity Computer Products, Inc., which went under, then came Fidelity International, Inc.
This company was saved by the Par Excellence because of its certified high rating,
but more importantly I had redesigned the electronics cutting the cost in half, yet we charged more for the product.
High margins keep companies in business.

Fidelity International, Inc. was successful but eventually Sid Samole wanted to cash out, at about the same time we lost the World Micro Tournament in Spain.
But he had a problem. I had a contract for royalties for all computer chess games.
What I didn’t know, was H & G would not buy Fidelity because of it. So one morning Sid Samole called me into his office and fired me.
I was in shock for days, so much so I did not consult a lawyer.
And at the severance meeting with Sid and his lawyer brother Myron, I signed away my rights,
in exchange for being hired as a consultant with 12 months of guaranteed projects.

Just before Sid started the selling of Fidelity International, my wife was diagnosed with terminal colon cancer.
At the severance meeting Sid even said this arrangement would give me more time with my dying wife.
Coincidently, when the 12 month guaranteed project period ended, my wife passed away and I and my four young children had a different life to adjust to.

I found work at a startup consumer music keyboard company, which was ideal for my Jack of All, Master of None credentials.
But this experience rekindled my love of music, which brought me to dancing and the eventual software programming of music analysis and beat detection.
Which I do now as a hobby.

Meanwhile Sid Samole had started a company, Pop Up Inc. and counseled his son Shane on starting Excalibur.
Shane started importing chess games from Eric White in Hong Kong. But Sid counseled Shane that his company needed to make products and sell them to be successful.
So Sid contacted me, on Shane’s behalf, and negotiated a deal and contract where I could work at home 3 days
and at the Pop Up, Inc offices, Excalibur shared, for 2 days, thus allowing me time to raise my family.
The contract was for royalties for any chess computer sold by Excalibur including Eric Whites.

Sid Samole still was of the mind that the high-end consumer chess market was still attractive,
and wanted me to work on the Mirage, but work with David Levy for the chess engine.
I said I had a partial H8 chess engine that still needed developing and that with Larry Kaufman’s (a local chess Grand Master and computer chess expert) consultation
I could do it myself. So Sid said yes, as long as Larry approved the final program as being strong.
According to some dates I recorded it took 6 to 9 months. So if the Grand Master product, a sister product of the Mirage,
plays chess relatively well, it is because of Larry’s expertise.

But the Pop-Up Tent, Inc mechanical “engineer”, screwed up on the Mirage housing design and the main motor mounting was off axis and caused high failure rates.
At this same time, I also designed the Ivan with the H8 engine and Eric White’s HK company produced it for us.
But I was also completing my low end chess line at about that time, and we received a fantastic bid for producing them
from another HK manufacture, Sametime, Ltd, and started the production of my 6805 games there.
This worked well, so we asked our Mirage & Grand Master Hong Kong manufacturer, EWIG, Ltd to quote on the Ivan.
They were much lower than Eric White’s manufacturing company so we switched.
That is when Excalibur severed close relations with Eric’s company and Excalibur started its own Hong Kong presence.

Sid Samole’s Pop Tent, Inc had folded (the inventor told Sid he applied for a patent, but a distributor the inventor had contacted
before he talked to Sid, filed their own patent on the inventor’s design. The inventors patent claimes was rejected, and that was the end of Pop Tent).
So Sid was now full time at Excalibur and assumed control, and they moved to a smaller building.

This was in 1999, I took a 9 month sabbatical to work full time on a new 4-bit chess engine,
a new LCD segmented chess display and an innovative new housing design,
that years later, Sony would copy and call the Walkman Bean.
I returned to Excalibur and with the LCD Chess design in hand, and negotiated a more lucrative contract for myself.

Because of the mechanical design problems and lack of knowledge and experience by EWIG in Hong Kong to produce a sophisticated moving chess piece product,
there were many returns of the Mirage, which was bad for Excalibur’s financials.
So Excalibur was not doing well when I returned.
But that Christmas, LCD Chess was a huge success, and I was told by people in the know that I had rescued Excalibur to fight another day (year).
First the Par Excellence, now again a successful low cost, high profit margin, quality product breathes fresh air into a company when it is needed.
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spacious_mind
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Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 2899
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve B wrote:
Excellent
Thanks Ron

can I ask you to please read your PM's..again look to the top of your screen
I sent you another one ..in reply to your PM
The PM has NOTHING to do with anything being discussed here

That OK Nick With You Regards?
Steve


Of course it is lol.
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Fernando
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Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 1912
Location: Santiago de Chile

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Ron Nelson Reply with quote

ChessChallenger wrote:
There have been many lengthy periods of good times and many euphoric moments of success, during my long career in the Consumer Electronics and Computer Chess field.

But all has not been rosy on my consumer computer chess timeline.

The Samole company bankruptcies were devastating. When Fidelity Electronics, Ltd. went bankrupt,I had personally loaned the company $350K to forestall the inevitable.
Then came Fidelity Computer Products, Inc., which went under, then came Fidelity International, Inc.
This company was saved by the Par Excellence because of its certified high rating,
but more importantly I had redesigned the electronics cutting the cost in half, yet we charged more for the product.
High margins keep companies in business.

Fidelity International, Inc. was successful but eventually Sid Samole wanted to cash out, at about the same time we lost the World Micro Tournament in Spain.
But he had a problem. I had a contract for royalties for all computer chess games.
What I didn’t know, was H & G would not buy Fidelity because of it. So one morning Sid Samole called me into his office and fired me.
I was in shock for days, so much so I did not consult a lawyer.
And at the severance meeting with Sid and his lawyer brother Myron, I signed away my rights,
in exchange for being hired as a consultant with 12 months of guaranteed projects.

Just before Sid started the selling of Fidelity International, my wife was diagnosed with terminal colon cancer.
At the severance meeting Sid even said this arrangement would give me more time with my dying wife.
Coincidently, when the 12 month guaranteed project period ended, my wife passed away and I and my four young children had a different life to adjust to.

I found work at a startup consumer music keyboard company, which was ideal for my Jack of All, Master of None credentials.
But this experience rekindled my love of music, which brought me to dancing and the eventual software programming of music analysis and beat detection.
Which I do now as a hobby.

Meanwhile Sid Samole had started a company, Pop Up Inc. and counseled his son Shane on starting Excalibur.
Shane started importing chess games from Eric White in Hong Kong. But Sid counseled Shane that his company needed to make products and sell them to be successful.
So Sid contacted me, on Shane’s behalf, and negotiated a deal and contract where I could work at home 3 days
and at the Pop Up, Inc offices, Excalibur shared, for 2 days, thus allowing me time to raise my family.
The contract was for royalties for any chess computer sold by Excalibur including Eric Whites.

Sid Samole still was of the mind that the high-end consumer chess market was still attractive,
and wanted me to work on the Mirage, but work with David Levy for the chess engine.
I said I had a partial H8 chess engine that still needed developing and that with Larry Kaufman’s (a local chess Grand Master and computer chess expert) consultation
I could do it myself. So Sid said yes, as long as Larry approved the final program as being strong.
According to some dates I recorded it took 6 to 9 months. So if the Grand Master product, a sister product of the Mirage,
plays chess relatively well, it is because of Larry’s expertise.

But the Pop-Up Tent, Inc mechanical “engineer”, screwed up on the Mirage housing design and the main motor mounting was off axis and caused high failure rates.
At this same time, I also designed the Ivan with the H8 engine and Eric White’s HK company produced it for us.
But I was also completing my low end chess line at about that time, and we received a fantastic bid for producing them
from another HK manufacture, Sametime, Ltd, and started the production of my 6805 games there.
This worked well, so we asked our Mirage & Grand Master Hong Kong manufacturer, EWIG, Ltd to quote on the Ivan.
They were much lower than Eric White’s manufacturing company so we switched.
That is when Excalibur severed close relations with Eric’s company and Excalibur started its own Hong Kong presence.

Sid Samole’s Pop Tent, Inc had folded (the inventor told Sid he applied for a patent, but a distributor the inventor had contacted
before he talked to Sid, filed their own patent on the inventor’s design. The inventors patent claimes was rejected, and that was the end of Pop Tent).
So Sid was now full time at Excalibur and assumed control, and they moved to a smaller building.

This was in 1999, I took a 9 month sabbatical to work full time on a new 4-bit chess engine,
a new LCD segmented chess display and an innovative new housing design,
that years later, Sony would copy and call the Walkman Bean.
I returned to Excalibur and with the LCD Chess design in hand, and negotiated a more lucrative contract for myself.

Because of the mechanical design problems and lack of knowledge and experience by EWIG in Hong Kong to produce a sophisticated moving chess piece product,
there were many returns of the Mirage, which was bad for Excalibur’s financials.
So Excalibur was not doing well when I returned.
But that Christmas, LCD Chess was a huge success, and I was told by people in the know that I had rescued Excalibur to fight another day (year).
First the Par Excellence, now again a successful low cost, high profit margin, quality product breathes fresh air into a company when it is needed.




Great, incredible history. In all this Sid samole appears not under a very bright light in my opinion.
And I ask here again: there is left in your mind and bowels some desire to produce another chess program?

Fern
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spacious_mind
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Ron Nelson Reply with quote

ChessChallenger wrote:

Sid Samole still was of the mind that the high-end consumer chess market was still attractive,
and wanted me to work on the Mirage, but work with David Levy for the chess engine.
I said I had a partial H8 chess engine that still needed developing and that with Larry Kaufman’s (a local chess Grand Master and computer chess expert) consultation
I could do it myself. So Sid said yes, as long as Larry approved the final program as being strong.
According to some dates I recorded it took 6 to 9 months. So if the Grand Master product, a sister product of the Mirage,
plays chess relatively well, it is because of Larry’s expertise.


Hi Ron,

Thank you so much for providing your insights. I believe your list of Excalibur computers might be missing a few. Mike Watters has kept a timeline of all computers as well as all Excalibur chess computers. There is an interesting gap between 1997 and the year 2000 where in the years 1998 and 1999 no new chess computers where brought to the market. I wonder what went on around that time period with Excalibur. You returning explains a lot and shows well in the results thereafter.

Your explanation on Mirage I believe has finally put to bed many of the open questions that we have (or certainly that I have). I am assuming with Krypton (Levy and White) that some of the things were just more cost efficient by continuing to use existing features where available. This would explain away some of the Horvath connections that Mirage for example has that carries over to the later Igor as well with regards to level settings etc. But I think for me these now become less interesting given your explanation on how the actual chess program itself came into being.

For chess authoring purposes of the chess engine itself how would you like to see it named at our websites given that you are providing credit to Larry Kaufmann as well from what I gather from your post it reads something like this for Mirage --> Ivan --> Igor --> Grandmaster

Chess Engine Author: Ron Nelson - Chess Consultant: Larry Kaufmann

Would this be a fair assessment?

If this is correct then we only have another 30-40 Excalibur computers to work through Smile (please excuse my humor).

Best regards and thanks again for all this fantastic information please keep on sharing!!

Nick

ps... a question on the Mirage robotics is this something that you brought with you to the negotiation table as a result of your past chess robot experience or was this something that originated from the Krypton camp or Samole?
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ChessChallenger
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Joined: 21 Dec 2015
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Ron Nelson Reply with quote

spacious_mind wrote:
ChessChallenger wrote:

Sid Samole still was of the mind that the high-end consumer chess market was still attractive,
and wanted me to work on the Mirage, but work with David Levy for the chess engine.
I said I had a partial H8 chess engine that still needed developing and that with Larry Kaufman’s (a local chess Grand Master and computer chess expert) consultation
I could do it myself. So Sid said yes, as long as Larry approved the final program as being strong.
According to some dates I recorded it took 6 to 9 months. So if the Grand Master product, a sister product of the Mirage,
plays chess relatively well, it is because of Larry’s expertise.


Hi Ron,


For chess authoring purposes of the chess engine itself how would you like to see it named at our websites given that you are providing credit to Larry Kaufmann as well from what I gather from your post it reads something like this for Mirage --> Ivan --> Igor --> Grandmaster

Chess Engine Author: Ron Nelson - Chess Consultant: Larry Kaufmann

Would this be a fair assessment?


Best regards and thanks again for all this fantastic information please keep on sharing!!

Nick



Yes, a very fair assessment.
If it plays a good move it is because of Larry.
If it plays a bad move it is because of my programming.
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Fernando
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Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 1912
Location: Santiago de Chile

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Ron Nelson Reply with quote

ChessChallenger wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:
ChessChallenger wrote:

Sid Samole still was of the mind that the high-end consumer chess market was still attractive,
and wanted me to work on the Mirage, but work with David Levy for the chess engine.
I said I had a partial H8 chess engine that still needed developing and that with Larry Kaufman’s (a local chess Grand Master and computer chess expert) consultation
I could do it myself. So Sid said yes, as long as Larry approved the final program as being strong.
According to some dates I recorded it took 6 to 9 months. So if the Grand Master product, a sister product of the Mirage,
plays chess relatively well, it is because of Larry’s expertise.


Hi Ron,


For chess authoring purposes of the chess engine itself how would you like to see it named at our websites given that you are providing credit to Larry Kaufmann as well from what I gather from your post it reads something like this for Mirage --> Ivan --> Igor --> Grandmaster

Chess Engine Author: Ron Nelson - Chess Consultant: Larry Kaufmann

Would this be a fair assessment?


Best regards and thanks again for all this fantastic information please keep on sharing!!

Nick



Yes, a very fair assessment.
If it plays a good move it is because of Larry.
If it plays a bad move it is because of my programming.



Hahahaha
No, sir.
From time to time I still play cc7 and from time to time, if I am not careful, I get nasty surprises...
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spacious_mind
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Ron Nelson Reply with quote

ChessChallenger wrote:

Yes, a very fair assessment.
If it plays a good move it is because of Larry.
If it plays a bad move it is because of my programming.


You are being unfair to yourself Smile The program plays very competitive and it's strength range is as good as any of the other programs in its category from other manufacturers. Some people have increased it's performance by doubling it's Quartz and thereby squeezing an extra 70 or so ELO out of it Smile But it gets frowned upon for tampering with the insides Smile

ChessChallenger wrote:

But the Pop-Up Tent, Inc mechanical “engineer”, screwed up on the Mirage housing design and the main motor mounting was off axis and caused high failure rates.
At this same time, I also designed the Ivan with the H8 engine and Eric White’s HK company produced it for us.
But I was also completing my low end chess line at about that time, and we received a fantastic bid for producing them
from another HK manufacture, Sametime, Ltd, and started the production of my 6805 games there.
This worked well, so we asked our Mirage & Grand Master Hong Kong manufacturer, EWIG, Ltd to quote on the Ivan.
They were much lower than Eric White’s manufacturing company so we switched.
That is when Excalibur severed close relations with Eric’s company and Excalibur started its own Hong Kong presence.

Sid Samole’s Pop Tent, Inc had folded (the inventor told Sid he applied for a patent, but a distributor the inventor had contacted
before he talked to Sid, filed their own patent on the inventor’s design. The inventors patent claimes was rejected, and that was the end of Pop Tent).
So Sid was now full time at Excalibur and assumed control, and they moved to a smaller building.

This was in 1999, I took a 9 month sabbatical to work full time on a new 4-bit chess engine,
a new LCD segmented chess display and an innovative new housing design,
that years later, Sony would copy and call the Walkman Bean.
I returned to Excalibur and with the LCD Chess design in hand, and negotiated a more lucrative contract for myself.

Because of the mechanical design problems and lack of knowledge and experience by EWIG in Hong Kong to produce a sophisticated moving chess piece product,
there were many returns of the Mirage, which was bad for Excalibur’s financials.
So Excalibur was not doing well when I returned.
But that Christmas, LCD Chess was a huge success, and I was told by people in the know that I had rescued Excalibur to fight another day (year).
First the Par Excellence, now again a successful low cost, high profit margin, quality product breathes fresh air into a company when it is needed.


So if I am reading it correctly the invention of Mirage robot was stateside and not from Krypton originally but they were contracted to build the computer?

I think we can mostly figure out which programs had your 4 bit engine. Some of these would be I assume King Arthur's or Kingmaster II & III or the LCD Model 375's etc, New York Times, Chess Station and some others.

What is still a little unclear are the computers that played in the middle range below Grandmaster but higher play strength than the above mentioned.

These would be Alexandra, Ivan II, Phantom Force Robot, Touch Chess and Deluxe Talking Chess, New York Times Deluxe. These programs play a good game of chess but all lack the ability to think on opponents time. Would these be based around your H8 program but with Ponder removed?

Best regards
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steffen
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Ron,

thank you so much for your inside information about your life.
I also want to thank you for the very first beginning of our hobby. It´s an honor for all of us, I guess, that you are discussing here with us. Without you no Chess Challenger, the very 1st chess computer, would have existed in this way. The one with the 1st black move 5g5e Wink No-one knows whether Sid would have found a programmer etc.
And this was the start of our hobby. B.t.w., I purchased a Chess Challenger (we call it CC 1 here) from Michael Spracklen some years ago Wink

May I please ask you another question?
Fidelity once sold the Advanced Voice, the Voice, the Sensory Voice (I guess the 1st press sensory board ever) and the Decorator/Grandmaster Voice.
Can you still remember whether the Grandmaster Voice had the same program as the Advanced Voice or Sensory Voice? We´ve led numerous discussions about this in the last years.

Best regards and Merry Christmas to all,
Steffen from Germany
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mclane
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Location: Luenen, germany, europe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve B wrote:
Steve B wrote:


well lets start with this
do you concede he is the Programmer of the GM?
Yes Or No?

Fairly straight forward question Regards
Steve


spacious_mind wrote:


Only Ron can answer that.



he did answer that
point blank ..in clear language
ill ask you again..do you now believe he programmed the GM...


Yes Or No Regards
Steve



It's hopeless.
It will not end to anything.
Ron says he did grandmaster (that is similar then igor, only igor is press sensory and with voice and sounds) while GM is magnetic.
Still he mentions horvath. What has horvath to do with GM ?
Nothing. Horvath did the computers that say "hello" when you switch them on.

So Ron says A and he says B.

I guess this is called religion.
A believer is not interested in facts but in his believe.
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mclane
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve B wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:
Steve B wrote:
Mike Watters wrote:


I know you would like to limit the discussion but in terms of our hobby finding out who individually or jointly programmed all 60+ Excaliburs is more significant and enlightening in my opinion.

Mike


ill ask you again as well...
do you now believe he programmed the GM??
Yes Or No?

Pinning You Down Regards
Steve


The word programmed is a very loose word.



ill Take that as a no
at least everyone here can clearly see how unreasonable your position is now
Amazing Regards
Steve


It's a religious thing.

You cannot logically talk with believers.
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Posts: 872
Location: Luenen, germany, europe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve B wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:



Hi Steve,

Are you the spokesman now for Ron Nelson? Is this why you PM'd him officially in front everyone? To be forewarned of us non-believers?

Questioning discrepancies is what reasonable human minds do.

Not blinded by faith regards


you mean you wont be blinded by the truth I guess
there is nothing reasonable about your position at this point

I notified him in public about my PM because he was new to the board and I didn't think he would even notice he had a PM waiting for him
that's why I explained where he should look for it
I have done this before with other new members
as to the content of my PM to him
I welcomed him to the board and I asked him if he remembered me and our conversations back then...to my chagrin..he did not remember me


and ..no .. I am not his spokeperson..I am the person from day 1 that said he programmed the GM as a result of conversations I had with him in the mid 2000's
you and Mike questioned my account
now he has come here and directly answered the question
in another thread Brian Whitby made contact with a VP of Excalibur who worked there the same time as Ron did and he confirmed that Ron was the programmer
you questioned the VP's account then and now you question Nelson's own
account from his own mouth
heres the truth Nick

You Cant Handle The Truth Regards
Steve


You said so from the first day and I came to similar conclusion by trying to relate the program with other dedicated machines from other programmers,
I could not find any similarity with other programmers work.
GM/Igor plays unique.

It's not horvath nor morsch, kittinger or anyone else I know.
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mclane
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 872
Location: Luenen, germany, europe

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:09 am    Post subject: Re: Ron Nelson Reply with quote

ChessChallenger wrote:
Thanks for your interest in me and my products.
I would not have normally engaged discussions on a forum, but I could not let anyone think I had used the Fidelity Spracklen program,
or that I had not personally programmed and designed every chess computer Excalibur manufactured in China.

I do want to get back into computer chess, I am comfortably retired enjoying life with my wife, traveling (European River cruises are fantastic),
my grand children and dancing. I am not a fan of Facebook, but I recently joined so I can record my life events,
and go backwards on the timeline to memorialize my life. I do not accept friends I do not personally know.

I do not pretend to think I am in the same league as the Spracklens, Kittinger, Lang, Morsch or Shroeder.
They are all brilliant people that, to my knowledge, worked 24/7 on their high end chess programs.
I on the other hand designed and programmed many consumer products and games. I enjoyed working at
the low end and the challenges small memory and low cost processors presented. I was proud of my
single chip 8049 2K bytes 128 byte ram chess engine. My 4-bit processor chess engine was also another
great accomplishment for me since it used sophisticated PRV and Killer Move search techniques.


Thank you for your statements. Of course the first fidelity machines were limited concerning CPU, memory size.
You are the pioneer who made the first step. Without you the whole story would not have started this way.
We all have those machines until today and they still work very well.
Of course the have no permanent brain. We can not see much information about the search process. But it's clear to see a progress in work between the different challenger versions.

Then the spracklen came to fidelity and the hardware was changed from z80 into 6502.
Also permanent brain was now standard and search information came in.

With Excalibur you took your old program from z80/8088 days and compiled it with enhancements for the h8 ?
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