Repeat performance issues with dedicated units?

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mrcdoc
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Post by mrcdoc »

Hi John,

Great!
Now that you mentioned it, I do remember too: there was a version for Apple that was based on a database issued from the CybercChess of Norbert Mikun. Iit makes sense that MIkun was developing several versions for each platform at this period... and Apple was one of the most popular platforms. I will add this on the ChessEval website. Thanks :)

I was looking to the different packages of games and found a confusing situation. Maybe everyone could give a list of his packages.
I am wondering what are the packages present in the software versions of CyberChess. Maybe this is a way to get the full package collection :)

Kind regards,

Maurice
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Cyberchess
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Post by Cyberchess »

fourthirty wrote:
ifekali wrote:Would any of you two guys care to post a video of this thing in operation? For the life of me, I am unable to figure out how this works ...

I'm quite sure I'm not the only one ... :)

-Izmet
+1. I finally (just now) realized that the Apple II program is an emulation of the paper based game. Boy have I been confused!

I would also like to see a video of how the original (paper) Rube Goldberg looking contraption works.

Wheel - Of - CyberChess Regards...
Greg:

I’ve given some thought on how to produce such a video, and have come to the conclusion that this would require one person to operate the camera and zoom in on the Cyberator features while the other actually demonstrates the unit. The best one person could do is provide a series of still pictures taken at various stages of a game. This, of course, would not be nearly as good as a well-produced video capturing the special notes and instructions when applicable.

Here’s a brief example of game play:

P-K6___RxN___B-Q7___ N-R3___P-N6___Q-B4

Each of the afore candidate moves will have a corresponding closed window beneath them. Once a move has been chosen, the player opens the window beneath to reveal any score adjustments if any (a scoring wheel is incorporated into the unit for this purpose). Some moves will receive a letter corresponding to the special notes and instructions section on the upper right of the unit. You would then move the notes slider to the corresponding letter. For instance: a serious blunder might read “Score This Game As A Loss For White; N-N6ch forks white’s queen".

Once the correct move has been found, pulling the tab on the game card a fraction of an inch reveals the next series of 6 candidate moves and so forth.

Hope this helps you to visualize the playing dynamics of a game in progress.

Cyber Primer Addendum Regards,
John
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

John
i am afraid that a mere text description ..no matter how detailed.. will simply not suffice
nowadays everyone needs video
its at the point these days that you cant even convict someone of a crime unless the entire criminal act is captured on video

actually the guy who first asked for a video in this thread has a studio like set up ..with mounted cameras,lighting...etc..etc
he has posted some fairly high quality professional videos here of the Rev II in action (as well as chess sets he sells)

i think at the very least you should consider investing in this type of equipment given that you started the whole discussion in the first place
im guessing the total investment in all of the required equipment should run you no more then 3-5k

CyberStudios Regards
Steve
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Cyberchess
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Post by Cyberchess »

Steve B wrote:John
i am afraid that a mere text description ..no matter how detailed.. will simply not suffice
nowadays everyone needs video
its at the point these days that you cant even convict someone of a crime unless the entire criminal act is captured on video

actually the guy who first asked for a video in this thread has a studio like set up ..with mounted cameras,lighting...etc..etc
he has posted some fairly high quality professional videos here of the Rev II in action (as well as chess sets he sells)

i think at the very least you should consider investing in this type of equipment given that you started the whole discussion in the first place
im guessing the total investment in all of the required equipment should run you no more then 3-5k

CyberStudios Regards
Steve
You need a video to help interpret the compulsory DNA evidence before the jury can begin to deliberate. Image

Perhaps we should curry financial backing from George Lucas. Paramount Pictures proudly presents The Cyberchess Chronicles (coming soon to a theatre near you...)

Screen Actors Guild Regards,
John
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

I Set up the REV II loaded with Hiarcs 14.1 and
attempted to administer TEST GAME 1A
just to see how many penalty Pts it would accumulate

the opening is the Ruy Lopez-exchange variation
Hiarcs has the black pieces

H picked all of the correct moves(according to the Cyberater )until we hit move 12...

[fen]r3kb1r/1pp2pp1/p1p3n1/4p2p/2N1P3/3P1P1P/PPP2P1K/R1B2R2 b kq - 0 12[/fen]

Here Hiarcs has in its book 12..0-0-0 or 12..b5
0-0-0 is not a move choice offered by the Cyberator and b5 is a 1 pt penalty
the Cyberator recommends f6 here which Hiarcs scores as -.16
i abandoned the test here as obviously book theory has changed a bit in the last 37+ years

CyberAbort Regards
Steve
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Cyberchess
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Post by Cyberchess »

Steve:

I prefer 12.)….. O-O-O here because 12.)….. f6 allows 13.) Rg1 forcing the black knight to e7 (blocking in the bishop).

What was Norbert K. Mikun thinking here?

Befuddled Regards,
John
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Cyberchess
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Post by Cyberchess »

On second thought, after 13.) Rg1 13.)….. N-h4 looks very good for black. If 14.) Kg3 black can continue with 14.)….. g5 etc.

In any case, we should probably disable all books for these games.

Interesting Regards,
John
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Cyberchess wrote:On second thought, after 13.) Rg1 13.)….. N-h4 looks very good for black. .
Sorry John
no takebacks allowed
sliding up the REGISTER window the following game messages appears...

Cyberator asseses the following penalty for trying to take back your move:
You must now send 4 pro packets to Steve B

:P

Seriously though..
if you are interested in putting one of my computers to the test i would be willing to play a game
perhaps one of your harder Pro Packet games?
you operate the Cyberater and i will operate the computer
we can play informally with no time limit as to when we need to reply
whenever you have the time to make a move and whenever i have time to reply
i would set the computer to tournament level.. 3 Min/Avg. per move
you can choose any engine in the Rev II or any dedicated chess computer you would like to see put to the test
i would start a new thread in the games and tournament section of the forum
might be the first CyberChess game demonstrated anywhere on the net

Just A Thought Regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ricard60
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Post by ricard60 »

Very interesting this manual mode dedicated chess machine. Now it would be better if it could be tested with a not so strong dedicated chess machine as Rev II loaded with H 14.1. And not a bad book for cyberches to follow 12 book moves having in mind that is a 37 year old machine.

Play it with a 2000 elo machine and see what we got regards

Cyberchess unknown elo regards
Ricardo
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Cyberchess
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Post by Cyberchess »

Steve B wrote:
Cyberchess wrote:On second thought, after 13.) Rg1 13.)….. N-h4 looks very good for black. .
Sorry John
no takebacks allowed
sliding up the REGISTER window the following game messages appears...

Cyberator asseses the following penalty for trying to take back your move:
You must now send 4 pro packets to Steve B

:P

Seriously though..
if you are interested in putting one of my computers to the test i would be willing to play a game
perhaps one of your harder Pro Packet games?
you operate the Cyberater and i will operate the computer
we can play informally with no time limit as to when we need to reply
whenever you have the time to make a move and whenever i have time to reply
i would set the computer to tournament level.. 3 Min/Avg. per move
you can choose any engine in the Rev II or any dedicated chess computer you would like to see put to the test
i would start a new thread in the games and tournament section of the forum
might be the first CyberChess game demonstrated anywhere on the net

Just A Thought Regards
Steve
:lol: LOL! Chalk one up for the ol’ Cyberator! Since the Cyberator Comments and Instructions Output Window must be obeyed, even if it calls for one jumping out of the second floor window (Harry Nelson Pillsbury), I will –since Norbert K. Mikun passed away in 1990— make some copies for you.

This will take some time because I have since relocated to a much smaller NYC Co-Op and have about half of my furniture and belongings in a Suffolk County storage facility. As it turns out, my new place actually has far more storage space than I had calculated, and I’m really kicking myself for leaving both Cyberators and the related modules buried in a mountain of boxes in one of two very cramped storage units. To make matters much worse, the movers stacked my heavy furniture in front of the mountain of boxes, making retrieval of anything very difficult to say the least. The last time I needed some work related material that had been mistakenly packed away, it took me an entire day and resulted in a severe backache afterwards. :x Despite this, I need to make a trip out there this fall to search for other items, and I will make a diligent effort to rescue the entombed Cyber equipment. There is no climate control in my storage spaces, so I need to do this on a really cool autumn day.

Good Things To Those Who Wait Regards,
John
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Cyberchess wrote:
:lol: LOL! Chalk one up for the ol’ Cyberator! Since the Cyberator Comments and Instructions Output Window must be obeyed, even if it calls for one jumping out of the second floor window (Harry Nelson Pillsbury), I will –since Norbert K. Mikun passed away in 1990— make some copies for you.
NO NO
please do not make copies for me
i was only fooling around

Good Luck with your move regards
Steve
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Cyberchess
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Post by Cyberchess »

ricard60 wrote:Very interesting this manual mode dedicated chess machine. Now it would be better if it could be tested with a not so strong dedicated chess machine as Rev II loaded with H 14.1. And not a bad book for cyberches to follow 12 book moves having in mind that is a 37 year old machine.

Play it with a 2000 elo machine and see what we got regards

Cyberchess unknown elo regards
Ricardo
The game that Cyberchess is following was played in 1975 I believe. Plugging Steve's FEN diagram into a position searchable database reveals that 12..... f6 had last been last played in 2000 whereupon a draw was agreed. I will post a game played in Sweden in 1994 that continued with 13.) Be3.

Stay Tuned Regards,
John
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Cyberchess
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Post by Cyberchess »

Steve B wrote:
Cyberchess wrote:
:lol: LOL! Chalk one up for the ol’ Cyberator! Since the Cyberator Comments and Instructions Output Window must be obeyed, even if it calls for one jumping out of the second floor window (Harry Nelson Pillsbury), I will –since Norbert K. Mikun passed away in 1990— make some copies for you.
NO NO
please do not make copies for me
i was only fooling around

Good Luck with your move regards
Steve
Let's first see where the movers placed the box containing the Cyber equipment. I'm hoping that it's in one of the first rows of boxes -- preferably near the top.

Wishin' and Hopin' and Prayin' Regards,
John
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Cyberchess
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Post by Cyberchess »

Here's a game from The 1994 Danish Open played by Patrik Lyberg and Johan Fuhoff of Sweden with 12.... f6

[fen]r3kb1r/1pp3p1/p1p2pn1/4p2p/2N1P3/3P1P1P/PPP2P1K/R1B2R2 w kq - 0 1[/fen]

13.) Be3 Nh4
14.) f4 ef
15.) Bf4 O-O-O
16.) a4 Be7
17.) a5 f5
18.) f3 g5
19.) Bg3 g4

[fen]2kr3r/1pp1b3/p1p5/P4p1p/2N1P1pn/3P1PBP/1PP4K/R4R2 w - - 0 1[/fen]

20.) Bxh4 Bxh4
21.) Ne5 Rdg8
22.) ef Bf6
23.) Rae1 Bxe5
24.) Rxe5 g3+
25.) Kg2 h4
26.) R1e1 Rf8
27.) R1e4 Rh5
28.) b4 Rf6

[fen]2k5/1pp5/p1p2r2/P3RP1r/1P2R2p/3P1PpP/2P3K1/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]

29.) c4 b6
30.) Re8+ Kd7
31.) c5 bc
32.) bc Rf7
33.) R8e5 Kd8
34.) d4 Kd7
35.) Rf4 Rf6
36.) Ree4 Rfxf5
37.) Rxf5 Rxf5

[fen]8/2pk4/p1p5/P1P2r2/3PR2p/5PpP/6K1/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]

38.) Rxh4 Rf8
39.) Rh7+ Ke6
40.) Rxc7 Kd5
41.) Kxg3 Rg8+
42.) Kf4 Rh8
43.) Rd7+ Kc4
44.) Ke5 Rxh3
45.) f4 Re3+
46.) Kd6 Kxd4
47.) Kxc6+ Kc4
48.) Kd1 Re6+
49.) Kd7 (1-0)

[fen]8/3K4/p3r3/P1P5/2k2P2/8/8/3R4 b - - 0 1[/fen]
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Cyberchess
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Quandary

Post by Cyberchess »

Well, it’s great to see people take an interest in an analog (Cyberchess) vs. digital (dedicated units) match, however, it occurred to me earlier that such a match might not even be possible.

The problem, as I see it, is as follows: inevitably, the digital unit will select an incorrect choice from the array of 6 candidate moves offered by the analog unit. Once this occurs, the digital unit will have to go back and recalculate while omitting the previously played incorrect move from its search. If it selects yet another incorrect move, it will have to recalculate while omitting the last two previously played moves from its search and so forth. The [Next Best] feature on digital units equipped with this feature could be used the first time, but would this work on subsequent replays?

Has anyone ever tried this before?

Hovering Over The [Abort] Button Regards,
John
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