Dedicated Chess Computer diversity in terms of style

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appleshampogal
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Dedicated Chess Computer diversity in terms of style

Post by appleshampogal »

Currently I am negotiating a deal to obtain a Novag Obsidian that I saw being sold. I was convinced to buy it when I saw a game posted between the Obsidian and the Mephisto Master, which has similar technical specifications to the Master. The Obsidian also did surprisingly well considering the ELO gap as far as I could see. Currently I have my Mephisto Challenger and Par Excellence, which have both been wonderful.


I've noted the following observations thus far from playing games with both...


- The Par Excellence's style is very interesting to play against. She goes toe-to-toe with you until she spots an opening, then proceeds to pull the rug out from under you with a clever sneak attack or sudden fierce tactical assault. I recently saw this in a spectator match between my friend and the Par in which lead to the Par landing a triangular patterned checkmate consisting of a pawn, bishop, and queen. The Par seems to like bishop mobility and likes to zig zag around her opponents.

- The Challenger's style is less of a juxtaposition between periods of calm and sudden explosive tactical shots, and more like the death grip of a Boa constrictor. She slowly "squeezes" the position and robs you of moves until your plan crumbles and you don't know what to do. Her game also seems to be more "centralized" versus zig-zagging over the board.



Anyone else who's used these machines observed the following to be true. Considering the Obsidian will soon be a part of my collection and plays a more aggressive style. Anyone have a recommendation on a fourth Chess computer? I'm a bit away from affording a master right now, but I saw an interesting thread on 2250XL from Radio Shack. Would its playing style compliment my current collection? My goal is to have an army of dedicated's with diverse playing style's for any kind of player/situation.



Mephisto Chess Challenger
Fidelity Par Excellence
Novag Obsidian
Radio Shack 2250 XL?


Share with me your thoughts and recommendations. I'd love to hear your input.
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Hi

seems to me you are missing a nice Scisys/Saitek computer
this is the only one of the four main computer Manufacturer's that you dont have a computer from
the main programmer for Scisys was Julio Kaplan
whose style was way different then the 3 computers you have now
i dont know your budget or playing strength but here is the Scisys Turbo 16 K for a very reasonable price on Ebay
its not too Strong though

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SciSys-Kasparov ... 259532d636

Hard To Go Wrong For $10 Bucks Regards
Steve
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appleshampogal
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Post by appleshampogal »

Hmm that one seems to be on the weak side. I'm trying to assemble more of a Motley Crue - a band of silicon asskickers. Kind of like the Deadly Vipers from Kill Bill.


Any votes on who Beatrix would be? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Is there a more powerful one that would fit into my electronic band of thugs by Kaplan? If you do, do tell!

:)



Warm regards,

Kattykins
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

appleshampogal wrote:Hmm that one seems to be on the weak side. I'm trying to assemble more of a Motley Crue - a band of silicon asskickers. Kind of like the Deadly Vipers from Kill Bill.


Any votes on who Beatrix would be? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Is there a more powerful one that would fit into my electronic band of thugs by Kaplan? If you do, do tell!

:)



Warm regards,

Kattykins
Here is a listing of all chess computers with Kaplan programs
as you can see some of his programs hit close to 2000 Elo
keep an eye out on Ebay for one of these:

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... lan,_Julio

Me And Julio Down By The School Yard Regards
Steve
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appleshampogal
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Post by appleshampogal »

Steve B wrote:
appleshampogal wrote:Hmm that one seems to be on the weak side. I'm trying to assemble more of a Motley Crue - a band of silicon asskickers. Kind of like the Deadly Vipers from Kill Bill.


Any votes on who Beatrix would be? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Is there a more powerful one that would fit into my electronic band of thugs by Kaplan? If you do, do tell!

:)



Warm regards,

Kattykins
Here is a listing of all chess computers with Kaplan programs
as you can see some of his programs hit close to 2000 Elo
keep an eye out on Ebay for one of these:

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... lan,_Julio

Me And Julio Down By The School Yard Regards
Steve


Hmm, I'm seeing this link to this computer is only 1,400 or so ELO on wiki, but other research on Hiarcs shows that it is claimed to be in the 1,800's? Is that correct? Does this computer fall in the class of the Par Excellence? If it does, I might just get this! But I want to know first.
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Post by Steve B »

appleshampogal wrote:

Hmm, I'm seeing this link to this computer is only 1,400 or so ELO on wiki, but other research on Hiarcs shows that it is claimed to be in the 1,800's? Is that correct? Does this computer fall in the class of the Par Excellence? If it does, I might just get this! But I want to know first.
1400 range is about right for the Turbo 16k
are you sure you are not thinking about one of the other Sicsys/Saitek "Turbo " named computers such as the Turbo King?
that was about 1800
I think Scisys/Saitek released at least 1/2 dozen computers with the "Turbo "name in it


Po Boy Regards
Steve
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Post by Reinfeld »

I recommend a Mephisto Milano (*not* the Milano Pro) as your next addition. Right now, you've got this:

Obsidian (Kittinger)
Par Excellence (Spracklen)
Challenger (Morsch)

Unless things have changed, you're pondering RS 2250 XL, which is still Morsch, but different enough in some cool ways to justify a purchase and have five instead of four:) Don't bother with GK 2100 - it's exactly the same as Challenger. Ditto for Explorer Pro.

Steve suggested some models by Kaplan. The strongest, as he notes, is the probably the Turbo King (1800 or so). However, it's a notch below the trio of machines you've described above. It's also hard to find. I just picked one up. Fun, but kind of blah as a player.

The Milano is an Ed Schroder program. It is easier to find. It's right in the wheelhouse of the models you already have - virtually even with Obsidian and Challenger, a touch stronger than Par Excellence. You will notice a sharply different playing style. It has a positional reputation. Not as handsome as Obsidian, but cute - silver pieces and a vintage laptop design.

- R.
"You have, let us say, a promising politician, a rising artist that you wish to destroy. Dagger or bomb are archaic and unreliable - but teach him, inoculate him with chess."
– H.G. Wells
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appleshampogal
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Post by appleshampogal »

Reinfeld wrote:I recommend a Mephisto Milano (*not* the Milano Pro) as your next addition. Right now, you've got this:

Obsidian (Kittinger)
Par Excellence (Spracklen)
Challenger (Morsch)

Unless things have changed, you're pondering RS 2250 XL, which is still Morsch, but different enough in some cool ways to justify a purchase and have five instead of four:) Don't bother with GK 2100 - it's exactly the same as Challenger. Ditto for Explorer Pro.

Steve suggested some models by Kaplan. The strongest, as he notes, is the probably the Turbo King (1800 or so). However, it's a notch below the trio of machines you've described above. It's also hard to find. I just picked one up. Fun, but kind of blah as a player.

The Milano is an Ed Schroder program. It is easier to find. It's right in the wheelhouse of the models you already have - virtually even with Obsidian and Challenger, a touch stronger than Par Excellence. You will notice a sharply different playing style. It has a positional reputation. Not as handsome as Obsidian, but cute - silver pieces and a vintage laptop design.

- R.


I'm taking your recommendation seriously! I am currently looking around for one now. I do want a varied team of operatives for my tactical team afterall ^.^

The Obsidian has a bit more of a positional style than both the Par and the Challenger to my surprise. But I'm reading that it is especially reputed in the Milano, so with any luck I'll find one. Hopefully. From what I'm reading, it's supposed to possess more endgame skill? Have you owned one? If so, what was your experience in terms of playing? Please, don't skimp on all the details.



With curious regards,

Kat
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Post by Reinfeld »

I own a Milano, and I like it. Is it better on endgames? That's a hard question. I think it is, but the impression is subjective - and all dedicateds at this level of strength tend to play loopy endgames marked by horizon-effect limits. They can't quite see the long-term outcomes, so they play a lot of pointless back and forth.

That said, I think Milano is more solid than any of the machines in your current crop. It has a pleasant feature-set and a good-sized opening book. Not too long ago, I ran a 4-machine tournament that pitted Milano against GK 2100, Fidelity Designer 2265 and Obsidian. Milano won the tournament, helped along by two victories against Obsidian. More detail here:

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5412

- R.
"You have, let us say, a promising politician, a rising artist that you wish to destroy. Dagger or bomb are archaic and unreliable - but teach him, inoculate him with chess."
– H.G. Wells
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appleshampogal
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Post by appleshampogal »

Reinfeld wrote:I own a Milano, and I like it. Is it better on endgames? That's a hard question. I think it is, but the impression is subjective - and all dedicateds at this level of strength tend to play loopy endgames marked by horizon-effect limits. They can't quite see the long-term outcomes, so they play a lot of pointless back and forth.

That said, I think Milano is more solid than any of the machines in your current crop. It has a pleasant feature-set and a good-sized opening book. Not too long ago, I ran a 4-machine tournament that pitted Milano against GK 2100, Fidelity Designer 2265 and Obsidian. Milano won the tournament, helped along by two victories against Obsidian. More detail here:

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5412

- R.


Hmm, that very interesting. Of course, I'd definitely like to see how my Obsidian holds up seeing as though I discovered (accidentally anyway) that my Obsidian has a much wider opening book. Apparently there is more than one kind of Obsidian out there and I seem to have lucked out. There may also be subtle differences in my particular variant of Obsidian's play that may ultimately prove decisive in a match. Nevertheless, the Milano certainly looks handsome with those points scored over the GK2100! I actually bet on a Milano today. Of course, if the bids get too high, I'll have to withdraw, but I'm certainly hopeful I'll get it!

With hopeful regards,

Kat
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