Human game Appleshampogal vs Novag Obsidian

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appleshampogal
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Human game Appleshampogal vs Novag Obsidian

Post by appleshampogal »

I've been waiting in anticipation and my Novag Obsidian was finally delivered earlier this afternoon. In fact I just finished playing a game against it. I can say already that it plays a wickedly fierce game. I set it to it's highest average time level and wow does it play FAST! The dual H8's really make an amazing difference in speed. Its playing style is definitely a lot different than the Mephisto Challenger and Fidelity Par Excellence. Obsidian loved creating diagonal attacks by creating pawn chains and lines of attacks with its bishops. The is definitely a contrast to the more centralized pressure the Mephisto Challenger prefers to create.



Here is my earlier game.



1. d4 c5 2. e3 cxd4 3. Qxd4 Nc6 4. Qa4 Nf6 5. c3 e6 6. Nf3 Be7 7. h3 d5 8. Be2 O-O 9. O-O Bd7 10. Bb5 e5 11. c4 a6 12. Bxc6 Bxc6 13. Qc2 Qb8 14. Nc3 dxc4 15. Na4 Bxf3 16. gxf3 b5 17. Nc3 Rd8 18. Bd2 Ra7 19. Rfd1 Rad7 20. e4 Rd3 21. Kg2 Qd6



[fen]3r2k1/4bppp/p2q1n2/1p2p3/2p1P3/2Nr1P1P/PPQB1PK1/R2R4 w - - 0 1[/fen]

[fen]3r2k1/4bppp/p2q1n2/1p1Np3/2p1P3/3r1P1P/PPQB1PK1/R2R4 b - - 0 1[/fen]

[fen]3r2k1/4bppp/p2q4/1p1np3/2p1P3/3r1P1P/PPQB1PK1/R2R4 w - - 0 1[/fen]



At move 21 the position looks like the above. I had a plan. If I moved Nd5 I could obstruct the path of attack from blacks Queen and take the rook. The only problem was that I totally forgot about the defending pawn on c4. A rather catastrophic blunder ensues that still has me reeling in embarrassment. I think I was starting to get worn down by the mental fatigue from trying to keep up with anticipating Blacks relentless discovered threats and attacking ideas. Eventually I crumbled under the pressure and my attention apparently wandered a moment too long.

:cry:


The game concludes with

22. Nd5 Nxd5 23. a4 Nf6





I resigned here because it became evident the situation was a losing one.



PS: Does anyone know the program that runs on the Obsidian? Is it similar or the same as the Star Diamond. I've heard WChess runs on the star diamond. Is that still the case with the Obsidian? Technical know-how curiosity gets the better of me.



Katherine
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Monsieur Plastique
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Post by Monsieur Plastique »

No, it's a separate series of program. The Obsidian was "ultimate" version of the RISC based 32K program that had been around since the 90s. When I say ultimate, I only mean that because the hardware was the strongest ever used for that particular program, the levels were more comprehensive than the original 32K machines and (possibly) bugs were ironed out. Then again, Novag did a poor job of the opening book in the Obsidian (lack of variety, holes) which is why you will find that people tend to seek out the earlier versions of the program in earlier models such as Emerald Classic, Turquoise, Amber, etc which did have excellent books.

The Star Diamond series on the other hand was the ultimate development of the "no holds barred" premium program. In other words, Novag's absolute strongest one. The program is obviously far bigger and there is much more RAM for hastables that significantly improve end game play.

So no, there is no substitute for the Diamond or Star Diamond I am afraid - at least when it comes to Novags. Again, the reason why when these come up on eBay (and even the precursors such as Scorpio) they almost always attract high prices.

Also, just an idea when playing such a relatively strong machine at your level. I'd recommend you pick one of the lower fixed time levels (such as 5 seconds per move), set it to "easy" mode so that you yourself can take the full 2 hours for 40 moves. The machine will still play pretty strongly even then (probably about 1700 + even when gauged at 40 in 2), but it won't feel so overwhelming.

Also, seeing as you seem to be amassing a small collection, you might want to pick up a little Star Opal while you can still get them new. It's a little cheap portable and if you play against the fixed time levels it might give you a surprisingly fun game. Strange as it seems, I have noticed that the 32K Novags seem to play a rather clinical game in a stolid sort of style. I'm not knocking it because it is precise and clinical but on the other hand, many like the style of the more vintage Novag machines (though some of that might be rose-tinted glasses syndrome). The little Star Opal, despite being quite weak (maybe 1500 flat out) actually resurrects that more vintage Novag style compared to the last 32K Novags and indeed Citrine.
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Re: Human game Appleshampogal vs Novag Obsidian

Post by Cyberchess »

appleshampogal wrote: At move 21 the position looks like the above. I had a plan. If I moved Nd5 I could obstruct the path of attack from blacks Queen and take the rook. The only problem was that I totally forgot about the defending pawn on c4. A rather catastrophic blunder ensues that still has me reeling in embarrassment. I think I was starting to get worn down by the mental fatigue from trying to keep up with anticipating Blacks relentless discovered threats and attacking ideas. Eventually I crumbled under the pressure and my attention apparently wandered a moment too long.

:cry:
Not to worry, it happens to the best of us.

Keep on fightin’ regards,

John
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Post by Monsieur Plastique »

Hi John,

Notice how this particular Obsidian game commenced 1. d4 c5??!! In light of all the previous discussion:

http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic. ... ng&start=0

I am a bit surprised no one else seems to have mentioned it. It goes against the grain of all tests that I am aware of published here, including a test of 1 d4 conducted twenty times, where all replies were 1..d5.

I am very close to being convinced there are two versions of the Obsidian out there. One with (possibly) slightly different functionality and a different openings book (or if not a different book then different weightings).

So unless Appleshampogal's game was a one in a hundred "lucky" one where it played c5 (and it won't for the next 50 years), then the evidence is starting to become quite compelling. Afterall, there were two versions of the Citrine I think, as well as different Star Diamonds I seem to recall, yet the average "layman" buyer of these devices would not be aware of this.

The question then becomes, how does one distinguish a "good" Obsidian from a "bad" one.
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Post by Fernando »

Monsieur Plastique wrote:Hi John,

Notice how this particular Obsidian game commenced 1. d4 c5??!! In light of all the previous discussion:

http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic. ... ng&start=0

I am a bit surprised no one else seems to have mentioned it. It goes against the grain of all tests that I am aware of published here, including a test of 1 d4 conducted twenty times, where all replies were 1..d5.

I am very close to being convinced there are two versions of the Obsidian out there. One with (possibly) slightly different functionality and a different openings book (or if not a different book then different weightings).

So unless Appleshampogal's game was a one in a hundred "lucky" one where it played c5 (and it won't for the next 50 years), then the evidence is starting to become quite compelling. Afterall, there were two versions of the Citrine I think, as well as different Star Diamonds I seem to recall, yet the average "layman" buyer of these devices would not be aware of this.

The question then becomes, how does one distinguish a "good" Obsidian from a "bad" one.

Easy: the Good Obsidian is that we can beat or draw.

Fern
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Post by fourthirty »

Monsieur Plastique wrote:Notice how this particular Obsidian game commenced 1. d4 c5??!! In light of all the previous discussion:
Monsieur Plastique - I did notice that c5 was played! Back when I performed my Obsidian opening trial with the Queen's pawn opening, the Obsidian replied with 1...d5 100% of the time. This was played after a fresh reset and default settings (RANDOM = 0).

I did vary the RANDOM settings for 1.e4 and observes changes in the Obisdian's opening reply. Unfortunately, I did not vary the RANDOM settings on the Queen's pawn opening (I'll add this to my to-do list).

Katherine - Do you happen to know the RANDOM setting of the Obsidian when you played the above game?

P.S. - very nice game!
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Post by appleshampogal »

Monsieur Plastique wrote:Hi John,

Notice how this particular Obsidian game commenced 1. d4 c5??!! In light of all the previous discussion:

http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic. ... ng&start=0

I am a bit surprised no one else seems to have mentioned it. It goes against the grain of all tests that I am aware of published here, including a test of 1 d4 conducted twenty times, where all replies were 1..d5.

I am very close to being convinced there are two versions of the Obsidian out there. One with (possibly) slightly different functionality and a different openings book (or if not a different book then different weightings).

So unless Appleshampogal's game was a one in a hundred "lucky" one where it played c5 (and it won't for the next 50 years), then the evidence is starting to become quite compelling. Afterall, there were two versions of the Citrine I think, as well as different Star Diamonds I seem to recall, yet the average "layman" buyer of these devices would not be aware of this.

The question then becomes, how does one distinguish a "good" Obsidian from a "bad" one.


You'd be interested to know Jon that I just tested the Obsidian again to see what forcing moves the Obsidian would respond to with my d4 queen pawn opening. The results were interesting.

I got d5 and Nf6 about 10-12 times before the Obsidian replied with c6!!!
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Post by appleshampogal »

fourthirty wrote:
Monsieur Plastique wrote:Notice how this particular Obsidian game commenced 1. d4 c5??!! In light of all the previous discussion:
Monsieur Plastique - I did notice that c5 was played! Back when I performed my Obsidian opening trial with the Queen's pawn opening, the Obsidian replied with 1...d5 100% of the time. This was played after a fresh reset and default settings (RANDOM = 0).

I did vary the RANDOM settings for 1.e4 and observes changes in the Obisdian's opening reply. Unfortunately, I did not vary the RANDOM settings on the Queen's pawn opening (I'll add this to my to-do list).

Katherine - Do you happen to know the RANDOM setting of the Obsidian when you played the above game?

P.S. - very nice game!


I just had gotten the machine and had little patience to read enough of the manual to know anything about toggling the random setting, so I'm not sure what its current default is, but I'd imagine the factory default as zero. I will double check though. I simply set the average time to a high level and began a new game as white. And thank you! It was an incredibly frustrating, mind-numbing game. Playing a Chess Computer tests the very limit of your patience and your energy conservation and this game was certainly no different!
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Post by appleshampogal »

Alas, the factory default is ZERO!



Deeply cool beans,

Katherine
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Post by Fernando »

appleshampogal wrote:Alas, the factory default is ZERO!



Deeply cool beans,

Katherine
Finally a pretty woman here.
To date this was and in fact still is a kind of old men asylum.
Beware of Monsieur Plastique, Larry and Blincoe, all of them very old but notorious perverts with a police file.

Fern
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Post by Steve B »

appleshampogal wrote:


You'd be interested to know Jon that I just tested the Obsidian again to see what forcing moves the Obsidian would respond to with my d4 queen pawn opening. The results were interesting.

I got d5 and Nf6 about 10-12 times before the Obsidian replied with c6!!!
Hmmm
Lets try narrowing this down a bit Boys and Girls...

it seems those Obsidians WITHOUT the NEXT BEST feature have opening books that NEVER reply to 1.d4 with a 1..c5

i wonder if Obsidians that do have the NEXT BEST feature will get the result Pogal got with a 1/20 2..c5 after 1.d4?

Pogal ..does your Obsidian have a NEXT BEST feature that works?

if it does its possible the Obsidian with NEXT BEST has a more varied opening book and should therefore rightly gain the title of

THE BEST Obsidian Regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Monsieur Plastique »

appleshampogal wrote: I got d5 and Nf6 about 10-12 times before the Obsidian replied with c6!!!
Thanks very much for that feedback Kat. It is greatly appreciated. So your machine has now played c6, c5, d5 and nf6 in response to d4. This is significantly better than all earlier reports that suggested next to no variety - at least in terms of the "choices" made by the machine left to it's own devices.

Given you have only recently acquired the machine (and I assume it is brand new), it is likely a later build - possibly the "final" build given the company no longer actually makes any chess computers.
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Post by appleshampogal »

Just for giggles, and other things... I conducted another few repetitions.

1. d4, d5
2. d4, d5
3. d4, d5
4. d4, c5!!



There it is. It isn't common, but as far as my Obsidian goes the c5 flank move is DEFINITELY present in Obsidian's repertoire.
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Post by Steve B »

Fernando wrote:
appleshampogal wrote:Alas, the factory default is ZERO!



Deeply cool beans,

Katherine
Finally a pretty woman here.
To date this was and in fact still is a kind of old men asylum.
Beware of Monsieur Plastique, Larry and Blincoe, all of them very old but notorious perverts with a police file.

Fern
i am a happily married man for 30+years
my wife and i remain very close to this very day
in fact we are so close that everytime i make a post here she is at my side correkting my speling

Marital Bliss Regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fernando »

Steve B wrote:
Fernando wrote:
appleshampogal wrote:Alas, the factory default is ZERO!



Deeply cool beans,

Katherine
Finally a pretty woman here.
To date this was and in fact still is a kind of old men asylum.
Beware of Monsieur Plastique, Larry and Blincoe, all of them very old but notorious perverts with a police file.

Fern
i am a happily married man for 30+years
my wife remain close to this very day
in fact we so close that everytime i make a post here she is at my side correkting my speling

Marital Bliss Regards
Steve
Steve

Hannibal was too a married man for a time....We all know you conduct a secret life...

Everything is known sooner or later regards
Fern
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