TK20 Turbokit

[Chessbama]

Hello,
I've come across a Hegener & Glaser TK20 Turbokit at work ( House of Staunton ) and after much googling, have finally figured out what it does. Not asking for any concrete commitments of course but thinking about throwing it up on Ebay ( possibly to sell with a Portorose 68030 ). Does anybody know how much this thing is worth? I'm mostly asking as a Chess guy right now as opposed to an employee of a Chess Company.

[Steve B]

Hello,
I've come across a Hegener & Glaser TK20 Turbokit at work ( House of Staunton ) and after much googling, have finally figured out what it does. Not asking for any concrete commitments of course but thinking about throwing it up on Ebay ( possibly to sell with a Portorose 68030 ). Does anybody know how much this thing is worth? I'm mostly asking as a Chess guy right now as opposed to an employee of a Chess Company.

Hi
do you mean the Schaetzle+Bsteh Turbo Kit(not sure Hegener & Glaser made a Turbo Kit)
either way...do you have just the turbo kit ...or the Leonardo TK20?

http://www.schachcomputer.at/leonardo.tk20jpg.jpg

if the latter it is quite rare..although some(myself included)consider this a modified computer

Very Rare But Still Uncollectable Regards
Steve

[xchessg]

Hello,
I've come across a Hegener & Glaser TK20 Turbokit at work ( House of Staunton ) and after much googling, have finally figured out what it does. Not asking for any concrete commitments of course but thinking about throwing it up on Ebay ( possibly to sell with a Portorose 68030 ). Does anybody know how much this thing is worth? I'm mostly asking as a Chess guy right now as opposed to an employee of a Chess Company.

I tend to think he means this: http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/TurboKit

Designed to work with 8 bit modules, bringing it up there with the 68020 modules regarding playing strenght.

Definitly not meant to work with the Portorose...

Xavier

[mrcdoc]

Hi Josh,
Rare indeed and working with the Mephisto module MMIV.
Hans van Mierlo was writing a very interesting paper on the Turbo Kit 20. He got his TK20 from Ed Schroder.
For more details, see:
http://chesseval.com/ChessEvalJournal/PrototypeMMV.htm
Kind regards,

Maurice

[Steve B]

I tend to think he means this: http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/TurboKit

Designed to work with 8 bit modules, bringing it up there with the 68020 modules regarding playing strenght.

Definitly not meant to work with the Portorose...

Xavier

Yes the Schaetzle+Bsteh Turbo Kit Gizmo's
never a fan of them..
in the states back in the 80's there was a Co. from the west coast trying to sell "bit spliced" Novag's(Super Fortes and Super Experts) running at 16-20 Mhz..not sure but I think you had to attach a contraption similar to the S+B Turbo kit
eventually the computers would overheat and fry the motherboard..(rumor has it they were responsible for the Great San Francisco Fire that killed thousands)

Seriously though ..the Co. didn't last very long

CYA Regards
Steve

[Chessbama]

Thanks for all of the helpful information. I'm a bit of a novice at this dedicated computer stuff.

[Sargon1972]

Hello ,

Well the kits where made by a company , the main focus of that company was other stuff. This Kits where just "on demand"work ,so they did build a couple of them, how many out there are i don,t know but i guess 10-20 max
So indeed it is very rare item.
I know many ,many years back on German ebay a Kit 16mhz was sold for 280 euro +- (I know he owner as well )now a day i think it will go double but that is only a guess
I own 2 one with 16 mhz MMV Portorose and a 18mhz on the Polgar
They released them as TK 20 but with 16 and 18mhz u must open them to see it what speed it have . The buy of the 18mhz was for that 2mhz +- 100 euro more. A lot of money back then
The funny thing is if u disconnect that cable of the PCB lets say Polgar the Polgar will play with his original speed
Both still running 100% never had no problems with them ,only renewed the both Flat Cables of them .And i know some others who have it and without any problems also
The company did a great job with these kits ,they are good made and reliable software ,well we know that what Germans make is mostly solid
I know and seen them on the Turbo King, Leonardo , MMIV Mega IV , Dominator and on some Novags
Jan Louwman did have several back then ,because he played vs Human with them .
The Novags do react on the speed the worst of all ,in comparing to the +elo they gain Novags 50+- elo max ,Turbo King 80+- elo The hammers are the Morsch 100 elo the winner is Schroder the Mega IV with kit 100-150 elo points !
But the Kits will not fit on any computer , lets say u have it on a MM IV u can not switch it to a Dominator , u need to do something to adjust it ,well that is what i know .
But in mine opinion very highly wanted and collectable now a days

Kr,Hans

[Chessbama]

Thank you for taking the time to produce such an informative post. If any of you need anything from House of Staunton/ USCF sales, send us an e-mail and I'll try to get you a break on pricing as your info is hard to come by.

[Steve B]

Actually i faced the Turbo Kit in the Paris 2008 Dedicated Tourney

it was the 4th round ..i was operating the Saitek Renaissance Sparc (4MB) and the opponent was a Mephisto MMIV wired up to the Kit which jazzed up its clock speed to 18 Mhz(normal is 5 Mhz)

here is the game...

[Event "Paris 2008"]
[Site "Saints"]
[Date "2008.05.18"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Saitek Sparc 4MB, 30s/move"]
[Black "Mephisto MMIV 18MHz, 30s/move"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D02"]
[PlyCount "91"]
[EventDate "2008.05.18"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Bf4 Nc6 4. Nc3 e6 5. Nb5 Bb4+ 6. c3 Ba5 7. e3 a6 8. Na3
Ne4 9. Nd2 Nxd2 10. Qxd2 f6 11. Be2 e5 12. Bg3 O-O 13. O-O Be6 14. Qc2 Qd7 15.
Bd3 g6 16. f3 Bb6 17. Kh1 Rae8 18. Rg1 f5 19. f4 e4 20. Be2 Re7 21. c4 Ree8 22.
c5 Ba5 23. Nb1 Nb4 24. Qd2 Qa4

[fen]4rrk1/1pp4p/p3b1p1/b1Pp1p2/qn1PpP2/4P1B1/PP1QB1PP/RN4RK w - - 5 25[/fen]

Turbo has just blundered with 24..Qa4?? and Sparky wins a piece with its next move 25.b3

play continued..

25. b3 Qd7 26. a3 Nc6 27. b4 Bxb4 28. axb4 Ra8
29. Qc3 Ne7 30. Nd2 Rae8 31. Ra2 h6 32. Rga1 Rd8 33. Bh4 Rb8 34. Qb3 c6 35. Ra3
Rbe8 36. Ra5 Kh7 37. Qc2 Ng8 38. Qc3 Qc7 39. R5a3 Bd7 40. Qc2 Nf6 41. Qa4 Be6
42. Qb3 Rc8 43. Ra5 Rce8 44. Qc2 Bd7

FINAL POSITION

[fen]4rr2/1pqb3k/p1p2npp/R1Pp1p2/1P1PpP1B/4P3/2QNB1PP/R6K w - - 0 45[/fen]

The Sparkster ..although up a Bishop for a P since move 28.. has just been shuffling its rook along the A file not able to break through at the 30 Sec./Avg. time control
i guess eventually the Sparkinator would hit on a winning plan but
everyone was waiting for the game to finish to begin the next round as all of the rounds are played in one day
i offered a draw here in order to keep the tourney moving along to round 5 ... the offer was eagerly accepted

Turbo Kits...Pfffft Regards
Steve

[Sargon1972]

Hello Steve,

Well in this game the Sparc bit in the Dust
30 sec a move

White:Mephisto Polgar 18 MHz
Black:Saitek Sparc
Result:1-0

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d4 d5 6. Bd3 Be7 7. O-O Nc6 8. c4 Nf6 9. cxd5 Nxd5 10. Nc3 Be6 11. Bb5 O-O 12. Bxc6 bxc6 13. Ne5 Nxc3 14. bxc3 Qd5 15. c4 Qd6 16. c5 Qd5 17. Bf4 Qe4 18. Qf3 Qxf3 19. Nxf3 Rfc8 20. Rfb1 Rab8 21. Rxb8 Rxb8 22. Bxc7 Rb7 23. Ba5 Kf8 24. Ne5 Bd5 25. a4 Rb3 26. Kf1 f6 27. Ng4 Rd3 28. Ne3 Rxd4 29. Nf5 Rg4 30. Ne3 Bc4+ 31. Ke1 Re4 32. Kd2 Ba6 33. f3 Rd4+ 34. Ke1 Rd3 35. Nf5 Rd7 36. Nd6 Bxd6 37. cxd6 c5 38. Bc7 Bd3 39. Kd2 c4 40. Kc3 g5 41. Kd4 h5 42. Kd5 Rf7 43. Rc1 f5 44. Kc6 Rf6 45. g3 g4 46. Kb7 Rf7 47. f4 a5 48. Kc8 Ke8 49. Bxa5 Rd7 50. Bc7 Rg7 51. Rc3 Be4 52. a5 Bd5 53. Re3+ Be4 54. a6 c3 55. a7 c2 56. a8=Q c1=Q 57. Rxe4+ fxe4 58. Qxe4+ Kf8 59. d7 Rxd7 60. Kxd7 Qd1+ 61. Bd6+ Kg7 62. Qe5+ Kg6 63. f5+ Kh7 64. Qe7+ Kg8 65. Qg5+ Kh8 66. Qxh5+ Kg7 67. Qg6+ Kh8 68. Ke7 Qa1 69. Qh5+ 1-0

Effective Turbo Kits regards, Hans

[Steve B]

Hello Steve,

Well in this game the Sparc bit in the Dust
30 sec a move

White:Mephisto Polgar 18 MHz
Black:Saitek Sparc
Result:1-0

Yeah just a run-o-the-mill Sparc 1MB Hans
no surprise there
i was operating the Sparc 4MB(factory installed) when it ate the Turbo's lunch


Double Pffft Regards
Steve

[Sargon1972]

Hello Steve,

Well 1 ore 4 MB do not matter in 30 sec a move game, because the SPARC will not fill the 1MB in the game ,so 4MB will not filled also
On 40moves in 2 hours then the 4MB make a difference , to up +-40 elo points i think
But nevertheless the SPARC is/was under appreciated in mine opinion to collectable and the price for the Module by many people.
Now a days the "ask" for one is high by many people,but the SPARC do not turn up much on Ebay . I will be curious how high it will end if 1 pop up
I have search for the 52Mhz WC version , i did came pretty far ,but then the track drops cold. And the one who did operate it at the WC do not know where it turned to .A nice story is that on the EAGON tournament the SPARC 52Mhz did play vs Larry Christiansen ,but the heat of the SPARC was the problem,so they put a van on it with did turn from left to right ,to extra cool the SPARC, the funny thing was here that L.C did smoke and the Van did blew the ash from the cigarettes into his face ! I know there is a 40mhz SPARC out there and it make a lot of noise
To mine opinion the 20Mhz is just not enough for this program ,with more MHz and 4MB it will be a mean opponent for many other computers .
But anyway i love this computer and is one of mine favourites

Kr,Hans

[Steve B]

.A nice story is that on the EAGON tournament the SPARC 52Mhz did play vs Larry Christiansen ,but the heat of the SPARC was the problem,so they put a van on it with did turn from left to right ,to extra cool the SPARC, the funny thing was here that L.C did smoke and the Van did blew the ash from the cigarettes into his face !
Kr,Hans

Amusing Anecdote Hans


Chuckling Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

Hello Steve,

Well 1 ore 4 MB do not matter in 30 sec a move game, because the SPARC will not fill the 1MB in the game ,so 4MB will not filled also
On 40moves in 2 hours then the 4MB make a difference , to up +-40 elo points i think


Kr,Hans

The RAM issue is Interesting
for the Risc 2500 Selective Search shows a 40 Pt Elo gain between the Risc 2500 516kb over the Risc 2500 128kb..+40 Pts for 4x more ram..

SS rates the Montreux stronger then the 2500 when both have 128kb
this makes sense as the Montreux has a later version of the King program

Mephisto released the Montreux with 128kb RAM only and did not offer versions with more ram(although modders have goosed up the ram on their own)
while the Risc 2500 was released with ram ranging from 128kb to 2 MB
a 2500 2MB should show even more elo gain over a 516kb perhaps 20-30 more for a total of 60-70
i wonder if a 2500 2MB would crush a Montreux in a mini-match?

this could have sweeping ....

RAMifications Regards
Steve

[Larry]

Hello Steve,

Well 1 ore 4 MB do not matter in 30 sec a move game, because the SPARC will not fill the 1MB in the game ,so 4MB will not filled also
On 40moves in 2 hours then the 4MB make a difference , to up +-40 elo points i think


Kr,Hans

The RAM issue is Interesting
for the Risc 2500 Selective Search shows a 40 Pt Elo gain between the Risc 2500 516kb over the Risc 2500 128kb..+40 Pts for 4x more ram..

SS rates the Montreux stronger then the 2500 when both have 128kb
this makes sense as the Montreux has a later version of the King program

Mephisto released the Montreux with 128kb RAM only and did not offer versions with more ram(although modders have goosed up the ram on their own)
while the Risc 2500 was released with ram ranging from 128kb to 2 MB
a 2500 2MB should show even more elo gain over a 516kb perhaps 20-30 more for a total of 60-70
i wonder if a 2500 2MB would crush a Montreux in a mini-match?

this could have sweeping ....

RAMifications Regards
Steve

I see on the trusted SSDF rating list the 512kb Montreux only out rates the
128kb risc2500 by a mere 9 ELO points. Based on the supposed 40 elo
rating hike for the 512kb over the 128 kb, this equates to the risc2500
outrating the Montreux by 31 ELO. The early rating lists were more reliable
than the later ones, IMO. The humans figure out how to beat the comps
and just keep beating them the same way.
Someone did comment that the Montreux rating initially
came up a little below
the earlier r2500, so this was rectified by giving the Montreux weak
opponents to give it certain victories and jack its rating up.
L