Code Flaw.... Fidelity Excel 6800

[Cyberchess]

Does it also come with a clamshell case and nifty magnetic chess set?
This little device was a real godsend for me back when I had this boring part-time job. Came the end of my shift, I would just power off the unit, fold away the magnetic set that held the position, and continue the game when I got home.

Calculator Schachcomputer Regards,
John

Nope what you see in the photo is what you got...aside from an instruction manual

liked the music in the Url
reminded me of Devo

Crack That Wip Regards
Steve

Thanks for the feedback. Fortunately they still make these highly portable Drueke Magnetic Chess Sets.
The price has increased a bit from the $5 I paid for my first set in 1975 (:x inflation).

Also a Devo Fan Regards,
John

[Theo]

...
it looks like there is something in Spracklen code that make his programs prone to fall in exactly the same carelessness attitude with pins.


Pin slayer regards
Fern

Yes, there is something in the Spracklen programs, like they didn't do their homework with the pins.

Here, SPARC has been pinned down by Hiarcs on a mere Palm 68000/33.

[Date "2015.07.27"]
[White "Hiarcs 12 33Mhz"]
[Black "Sparc"]
[Comment "30sec per move; white: 5 book moves, black: 6"]
[Result "1-0"]

1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 c6 5.Be2 dxe5 6.dxe5 Bf5 7.c4
Qa5+ 8.Bd2 Nb4 9.O-O N8a6 10.a3 e6 11.Qb3 Bc2 12.Qc3 Be7 13.b3
Qd8 14.axb4 Nxb4 15.Bf4 1-0

[Steve B]

Yes, there is something in the Spracklen programs, like they didn't do their homework with the pins.

Here, SPARC has been pinned down by Hiarcs on a mere Palm 68000/33.

No...
this game proves nothing about a bug
i have played 1000's of games with many different dedicated computers
and all of them have lost some games due to the horizon effect and pins

here is a game i posted where the Conic Korchnoi loses because of a pin...
http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=70011#70011

is there a pin bug in the Korchnoi also?

your game is not even a fair example as you have a palm running at 33 Mhz against a 20 Mhz Sparc engine..different processors..different clock speeds
Palm Hiarcs simply out searched the Sparc module

show me a series of games where Fidelity dedicated computers lose because of a pin Vs other dedicated computers running at the same speed and same processor


Next Regards
Steve

[Fernando]

No matter how much outsearched a Spracklen program is, a PIN is mostly a short range affair, not something that reveals its nature at ply 12.
So, YES, I sustain my thesis I have seen happening in many games with situation not beyond the search tree of the program.

Of course it could happens that the adversary of Spracklen, human or not, does not see the chances of a pin.
Then we have a search problem with this side of the game...

Pin regards
Fern

[Steve B]

No matter how much outsearched a Spracklen program is, a PIN is mostly a short range affair, not something that reveals its nature at ply 12.

All of the dedicated computers back then lost games by pin blunders
they were searching at best 5-6 ply which is 2-3 moves deep
here is another game..this time with a Kittinger engine
GM Larry Kaufman defeats my Novag Constellation by pinning its Q to its K

The Game:

REMOVE WHITE QR
[Event "CCC Forum Challenge "]
[Date "7.03-8.23.2010"]
[White "GM Kaufman"]
[Black "Novag Constellation 3.6"]
[Time Control "3 Min Per Move "]
[Result "1-0"]

1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 e5 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 exd4 7.O-O dxc3 8.Qb3 Qf6 9.e5 Qf5 10.Nxc3 Nge7 11.Ba3 Bxc3 12.Qxc3 b6 13.h3 Bb7 14.Rc1 O-O 15.Rd1 Rfd8 16.Bb2 Qg6 17.Bd3 Qh6 18.Bc1 Qh5 19.Re1 d5 20.Kh2 d4 21.Qa3 Bc8 22.Re4 Bf5 23.g4 Bxg4 24.Rxg4 Nxe5 25.Nxe5 Qxe5+ 26.Bf4 Qc5 27.Qb3 g6 28.Bc4 Nd5 29.Bg5 Rd7 30.h4 Re8 31.h5 Qd6+ 32.Kg2 Qc6 33.Kh2 Re5 34.hxg6 Qxg6 35.Qg3 Rf5 36.Bh4 Rxf2+ 37.Kg1 Rf5 38.Bd3 Nf4 39.Rxg6+ hxg6 40.Qe1 Rfd5 41.Bf6 Ne6 42.Bc4 R5d6 43.Be5 Ng5 44.Qg3 Rc6 45.Qg2 Re7 46.Qxc6 Rxe5 47.Qxg6+ Kf8 48.Qf6 Rc5 49.Qd8+ Kg7 50.Qxd4+ f6 51.Qd7+ Kg6 52.Bd3+ f5 53.Kf2 Kf6 54.Qd8+ Kg6 55.Qe7 1-0

the position showing the pin..

[fen]6k1/p1pr1p1p/1p4q1/5r2/3p1nRB/3B2Q1/P7/6K1 w - - 0 39 [/fen]


Three games showing pin blunders by 3 different programmers
i have played Spracklen programs for over 30 years and i notice no greater incidence of pin blunders then by any other dedicated programmer

in the meantime you have yet to show even one game with a pin blunder by a Spracklen engine
your first attempt at showing a game(with actual moves) and this non-existent bug ended in a debacle
the way I see it..unless you can show at least one game with FULL PGN
then you yourself do not even deserve to post in this thread ..which you created


Pinned To The Wall Regards
Steve

[Theo]

No matter how much outsearched a Spracklen program is, a PIN is mostly a short range affair, not something that reveals its nature at ply 12.
So, YES, I sustain my thesis I have seen happening in many games with situation not beyond the search tree of the program.

Of course it could happens that the adversary of Spracklen, human or not, does not see the chances of a pin.
Then we have a search problem with this side of the game...

Pin regards
Fern

You're right. In my example, it was just a 3-ply-affair. Throwing the knight into the pin (8. ... Nb4) was predetermined by 7. ... Qa5+, the first move Sparc played after opening library.

And it really doesn't matter if outsearched or not, because in this case only static evaluation counts. Either a program knows a PIN is a bad thing, or it doesn't care.

By the way, Hiarcs 12 on my palm 68000 is several times slower than Sparc, it computes maybe 200 nodes per second on this hardware!

[Steve B]

and so most dedicated computers have this "bug" because they all will lose a game sooner or later due to a pin blunder?

BTW...the number of nodes per second is a meaningless statistic for the purposes of this discussion
the Mephisto computers programmed by Thomas Nitsche & Elmar Henne computed 3-4 Nodes per second and achieved ratings close to 1500

[Fernando]

No matter how much outsearched a Spracklen program is, a PIN is mostly a short range affair, not something that reveals its nature at ply 12.

All of the dedicated computers back then lost games by pin blunders
they were searching at best 5-6 ply which is 2-3 moves deep
here is another game..this time with a Kittinger engine
GM Larry Kaufman defeats my Novag Constellation by pinning its Q to its K

The Game:

REMOVE WHITE QR
[Event "CCC Forum Challenge "]
[Date "7.03-8.23.2010"]
[White "GM Kaufman"]
[Black "Novag Constellation 3.6"]
[Time Control "3 Min Per Move "]
[Result "1-0"]

1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 e5 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 exd4 7.O-O dxc3 8.Qb3 Qf6 9.e5 Qf5 10.Nxc3 Nge7 11.Ba3 Bxc3 12.Qxc3 b6 13.h3 Bb7 14.Rc1 O-O 15.Rd1 Rfd8 16.Bb2 Qg6 17.Bd3 Qh6 18.Bc1 Qh5 19.Re1 d5 20.Kh2 d4 21.Qa3 Bc8 22.Re4 Bf5 23.g4 Bxg4 24.Rxg4 Nxe5 25.Nxe5 Qxe5+ 26.Bf4 Qc5 27.Qb3 g6 28.Bc4 Nd5 29.Bg5 Rd7 30.h4 Re8 31.h5 Qd6+ 32.Kg2 Qc6 33.Kh2 Re5 34.hxg6 Qxg6 35.Qg3 Rf5 36.Bh4 Rxf2+ 37.Kg1 Rf5 38.Bd3 Nf4 39.Rxg6+ hxg6 40.Qe1 Rfd5 41.Bf6 Ne6 42.Bc4 R5d6 43.Be5 Ng5 44.Qg3 Rc6 45.Qg2 Re7 46.Qxc6 Rxe5 47.Qxg6+ Kf8 48.Qf6 Rc5 49.Qd8+ Kg7 50.Qxd4+ f6 51.Qd7+ Kg6 52.Bd3+ f5 53.Kf2 Kf6 54.Qd8+ Kg6 55.Qe7 1-0

the position showing the pin..

[fen]6k1/p1pr1p1p/1p4q1/5r2/3p1nRB/3B2Q1/P7/6K1 w - - 0 39 [/fen]


Three games showing pin blunders by 3 different programmers
i have played Spracklen programs for over 30 years and i notice no greater incidence of pin blunders then by any other dedicated programmer

in the meantime you have yet to show even one game with a pin blunder by a Spracklen engine
your first attempt at showing a game(with actual moves) and this non-existent bug ended in a debacle
the way I see it..unless you can show at least one game with FULL PGN
then you yourself do not even deserve to post in this thread ..which you created


Pinned To The Wall Regards
Steve

Well, if you do not believe in my word AND the word of our pal here, then you are compelled to believe I am an extremely strong player capable of trashing anything the Spracklen throw to me AND that I am an humble person not capable of boasting of his force.

Is this or that regards
Fern

[Steve B]

Well, if you do not believe in my word AND the word of our pal here, then you are compelled to believe I am an extremely strong player capable of trashing anything the Spracklen throw to me AND that I am an humble person not capable of boasting of his force.

Actually I do believe you are a strong player and this is the reason you defeat your Fidelity Computers..Bugs or no Bugs

Bug Spray Regards
Steve

[chesspcmac]

Isn't it funny? when be beat our computers we always try to look for an excuse why the computer lost, a bug, bad opening book, stuck on power save, LUCK!! etc. We dont take the credit. When the computer kicks your behind...IT doesnt care!! It doesnt care if you had a cold or if you were having a bad day or whatever.... Just plain COLD!!


Cold as Ice regards


Mike

[Fernando]

Isn't it funny? when be beat our computers we always try to look for an excuse why the computer lost, a bug, bad opening book, stuck on power save, LUCK!! etc. We dont take the credit. When the computer kicks your behind...IT doesnt care!! It doesnt care if you had a cold or if you were having a bad day or whatever.... Just plain COLD!!


Cold as Ice regards


Mike

It is like it happens with your sons, pal. You forgiven them all and you ready to take all faults.

father of 22 electronic sons regards
Fern

[Steve B]

Isn't it funny? when be beat our computers we always try to look for an excuse why the computer lost, a bug, bad opening book, stuck on power save, LUCK!! etc. We dont take the credit. When the computer kicks your behind...IT doesnt care!! It doesnt care if you had a cold or if you were having a bad day or whatever.... Just plain COLD!!


Cold as Ice regards


Mike

Hi Mike
i dug up a game i played against the Novag Star Beryl
in a strange coincidence i won the game due to a pin blunder
i posted the game on the CCC back in 2007..

White "Steve B"]
[Black "Star Beryl"]
[TimeControl "90Sec/Avg"]
[Result "1-0"]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 c6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 7.Bxc4 b5 8.Bd3
a6 9.O-O c5 10.Re1 Qc7 11.h3 cxd4 12.exd4 Bb7 13.d5 O-O-O 14.dxe6 Nc5
15.e7 Rxd3 16.e8=Q+ Nxe8 17.Rxe8+ Rd8 18.Bf4 Rxe8
19.Bxc7 Kxc7 20.Nd5+ Kc8 21.Rc1Rd8 22.b4 Rxd5 23.Qe2 Bd6 24.bxc5
24.. Bxc5 ??
allowing 25.Qe3 which just wins a pieces for nothing

[fen]2k4r/1b3ppp/p7/1pbr4/8/4QN1P/P4PP1/2R3K1 w - - 0 25[/fen]


25..Rd1+ 26.Kh2 Rxc1 27.Qxc1 Kd7 28.Qxc5 Re8 29.Ne5+ Ke6 30.Nd3 Kd7 31.Qa7 Kc8 32.Nc5 Re7 33.Nxa6 Kd8 34.Qb6+ Ke8 35.Nc7+Rxc7 36.Qxc7 Bd5 37.Qe5+ Be6 38.Qxb5+ Ke7 39.a4 f5 40.a5 h5 41.a6 Bd7 42.Qxd7+ Kxd7 43.a7 Ke7 44.a8=Q 1-0

Now unlike Fern...i did not explain away my victory by blaming a bug in the Star Beryl
instead i ran around for days shouting out loud how i was a chess god and i even challenged Kasparov Himself to a match offering him P and move odds

Delusional Regards
Steve

[Fernando]

Isn't it funny? when be beat our computers we always try to look for an excuse why the computer lost, a bug, bad opening book, stuck on power save, LUCK!! etc. We dont take the credit. When the computer kicks your behind...IT doesnt care!! It doesnt care if you had a cold or if you were having a bad day or whatever.... Just plain COLD!!


Cold as Ice regards


Mike

Hi Mike
i dug up a game i played against the Novag Star Beryl
in a strange coincidence i won the game due to a pin blunder
i posted the game on the CCC back in 2007..

White "Steve B"]
[Black "Star Beryl"]
[TimeControl "90Sec/Avg"]
[Result "1-0"]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 c6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 7.Bxc4 b5 8.Bd3
a6 9.O-O c5 10.Re1 Qc7 11.h3 cxd4 12.exd4 Bb7 13.d5 O-O-O 14.dxe6 Nc5
15.e7 Rxd3 16.e8=Q+ Nxe8 17.Rxe8+ Rd8 18.Bf4 Rxe8
19.Bxc7 Kxc7 20.Nd5+ Kc8 21.Rc1Rd8 22.b4 Rxd5 23.Qe2 Bd6 24.bxc5
24.. Bxc5 ??
allowing 25.Qe3 which just wins a pieces for nothing

[fen]2k4r/1b3ppp/p7/1pbr4/8/4QN1P/P4PP1/2R3K1 w - - 0 25[/fen]


25..Rd1+ 26.Kh2 Rxc1 27.Qxc1 Kd7 28.Qxc5 Re8 29.Ne5+ Ke6 30.Nd3 Kd7 31.Qa7 Kc8 32.Nc5 Re7 33.Nxa6 Kd8 34.Qb6+ Ke8 35.Nc7+Rxc7 36.Qxc7 Bd5 37.Qe5+ Be6 38.Qxb5+ Ke7 39.a4 f5 40.a5 h5 41.a6 Bd7 42.Qxd7+ Kxd7 43.a7 Ke7 44.a8=Q 1-0

Now unlike Fern...i did not explain away my victory by blaming a bug in the Star Beryl
instead i ran around for days shouting out loud how i was a chess god and i even challenged Kasparov Himself to a match offering him P and move odds

Delusional Regards
Steve

IF I do not recall bad, that comp was a gift from me to you when you was in the hospital due to excessive drinking and cocaine ingestion. If so, it means that my gift made you feel happy at least once, the only game you ever has won to Beryl...

Surgical regards
Fern

[Steve B]

IF I do not recall bad, that comp was a gift from me to you when you was in the hospital due to excessive drinking and cocaine ingestion. If so, it means that my gift made you feel happy at least once, the only game you ever has won to Beryl...

Surgical regards
Fern

Actually it was the last time i ever won a game

I'll Take What I Can Get Regards
Steve

[Fernando]

IF I do not recall bad, that comp was a gift from me to you when you was in the hospital due to excessive drinking and cocaine ingestion. If so, it means that my gift made you feel happy at least once, the only game you ever has won to Beryl...

Surgical regards
Fern

Actually it was the last time i ever won a game

I'll Take What I Can Get Regards
Steve

That is very wise. I am a fool and despise my 99 wins in 100 games.....