Millenium new release of chess computer

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klute
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Post by klute »

Steve B wrote: continuing with my meaningless and immaterial observations
Speaking about the plastic trays that hold the pieces and batteries ...i notice two empty pockets for what looks like the adapter and the different connections
my guess is that Millennium originally planned to ship the unit with the adapter but wanted to keep the price to under 100 euro so they scrapped the idea
Nothing (well almost nothing) is meaningless or immaterial in Schachcomputer Land my friend.

I too have been contemplating the vacant cavities in the vacuum-formed tray for some considerable time now and I concur with your theory.

I do however have a twist to the theory...

For those with an adaptor, try inserting the adaptor body and each of the three plugs in their cavities.

At least with my fiddling around, they don't appear to fit well at all - almost as if Millennium discovered the tray mouldings weren't correct...

...and therefore had to ditch the "all in one" idea anyway Regards
The Klute offers you the white pieces and the advantage of the first move.
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Post by Steve B »

Meaningless Observation from game 1..
the CMG was able to take back all of the moves in the last game and replay them so my guess is that the computer has an unlimited "take back" feature

In the second game both computers were out of book at move 10
on move 13 MCG voluntarily gives up the right to 0-0 by moving its K to d8
WM quickly exploits the situation by sacking its N for 3 P's leaving the BK stranded in the center of the board with no P cover
while material is even you just know the MCG cant last long with an exposed K and the heavy pieces still on the board..it didnt


[Event-Oedipus Complex Match]
[Site-Underground Bunkers]
[Date "2015.11.26"]
[Round "2"]
[White "WunderMachine"]
[Black "MCG"]
[Time Control 1 Min./Avg.]
[Result "1-0*"]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6 6.N1e2 e6 7.h4 h6 8.Nf4
Bh7 9.Bc4 Nf6 10.O-O Nd5 11.Bxd5 cxd5 12.Qh5 Qf6 13.Re1 Kd8 14.Nxd5 exd5
15.Qxd5+ Nd7 16.Qxb7 Rb8 17.Qxa7 Bxc2 18.Bd2 Bb4 19.Bxb4 Rxb4 20.Rac1
Ra4 21.Qb7 Rc4 22.Qd5 Rc8 23.Nh5 Qb6 24.Qxf7 Rc7 25.Nf4 Rc6 26.d5 Rc4
27.Ne6+ Kc8 28.b3 Rc5 29.Nxc5 Qxc5 30.Re2 Rf8 31.Qe6 Qa7 32.Rcxc2+ Kb8
33.Qd6+ 1-0

FINAL POSITION
[fen]1k3r2/q2n2p1/3Q3p/3P4/7P/1P6/P1R1RPP1/6K1 w - - 0 33[/fen]

WM announces mate in 7 here
MCG shows -11.96

Match score 2-0 for WM
MCG needs at least a draw in the third game to extend the match to 6 games..other wise match... finito


Lets See if the Boy Genius has what it takes Regards
Steve
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klute
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Post by klute »

Steve B wrote: as the MCG has no "Resign" feature
I wish more Schachcomputer models had resign capabilities - and I don't mean the option in certain Fidelity models to "resign" only when there's a forced mate.

I mean real resignation - as taught to us by our forefathers and to be passed on to future generations.

In my view probably the best true resigner of all time was the SciSys Chess Champion Mark V way back in 1981.

Throwing in the towel just hasn't been quite the same since Regards
The Klute offers you the white pieces and the advantage of the first move.
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Post by Steve B »

klute wrote:
Steve B wrote: as the MCG has no "Resign" feature
I wish more Schachcomputer models had resign capabilities - and I don't mean the option in certain Fidelity models to "resign" only when there's a forced mate.

I mean real resignation - as taught to us by our forefathers and to be passed on to future generations.

In my view probably the best true resigner of all time was the SciSys Chess Champion Mark V way back in 1981.

Throwing in the towel just hasn't been quite the same since Regards
The Stronger Novag's were always quite the gentlemen in that they knew how to properly Resign with an announcement in the display
as a rule of thumb..if a computer cannot bring itself to admit defeat and resign ....then when its Eval hits -9.99 i call it a day and remove the computer from my desk as its...

Kicking and Screaming Regards
Steve
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klute
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Post by klute »

Steve B wrote: The Stronger Novag's were always quite the gentlemen in that they knew how to properly Resign with an announcement in the display
as a rule of thumb..if a computer cannot bring itself to admit defeat and resign ....then when its Eval hits -9.99 i call it a day and remove the computer from my desk as its...
That's true with stronger Novags and also certain stronger Mephistos.

Other excellent resigners are machines with the Kaare Danielsen 16K program.

In my book the SciSys Mark V is still the all-time king of resigners though.

I and Monsieur Plastique have strong views on the sanctity of non-human-intervention in games between machines that don't resign however. We must not play God - our task is to operate and not to adjudicate!

...play it through to the bitter end Regards
The Klute offers you the white pieces and the advantage of the first move.
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Post by Monsieur Plastique »

klute wrote:I and Monsieur Plastique have strong views on the sanctity of non-human-intervention in games between machines that don't resign however. We must not play God - our task is to operate and not to adjudicate!

...play it through to the bitter end Regards
Quite true, though in my game against it today, I was wondering exactly how low the evaluation was going to get. It was at something like -21.9 or thereabouts well before it was mated. I was actually thinking how low can the number possibly get?

I like the Ed Schroder approach to resignation the best. I seem to recall it was -9.99 for three consecutive moves then resignation was invoked. It does not strike me as very hard to program this into a machine that has sufficient ROM available.
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Post by Steve B »

Game 3..
Again the MCG is out of book at move 10
i am guessing that the MCG's opening book is limited to 10 moves deep in any variation..the WM left book at move 14
once again the MCG loses the right to 0-0 this time resulting in the loss of a P
Major exchanges of pieces and pawns then ensue leaving what looks like a drawn R+P ending
inexplicably the MCG... while still a P down .. exchanges R's at move 36 tossing away a possible draw for a lost endgame
the rest was a matter of technique for the WM

[Event-Oedipus Complex Match]
[Site-Underground Bunkers]
[Date "2015.11.26"]
[Round "3"]
[White "MCG"]
[Black "WunderMachine"]
[Time Control 1 Min./Avg.]
[Result "0-1*"]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 dxc4 5.e4 Bb4 6.Bg5 c5 7.Bxc4 cxd4
8.Nxd4 Bxc3+ 9.bxc3 Qa5 10.Bb5+ Nbd7 11.Bxf6 Qxc3+ 12.Kf1 gxf6 13.Nxe6
Qe5 14.Nd4 O-O 15.Bxd7 Bxd7 16.Qd3 Rfe8 17.Qg3+ Qxg3 18.hxg3 Rxe4 19.Rh4
Rxh4 20.gxh4 Rc8 21.Ke2 b6 22.Kd3 Rc5 23.Re1 Ra5 24.Re2 Be6 25.Nxe6 fxe6
26.Kc3 Kf7 27.Kb4 Rd5 28.Kc4 h5 29.g3 Ke7 30.Rb2 Kd6
31.Kc3 e5 32.Kc4 Kc6 33.Re2 Rd4+ 34.Kc3 Kd5 35.Re3 f5 36.Rd3 Rxd3+
37.Kxd3 b5 38.Ke3 a5 39.f3 b4 40.g4 hxg4 41.fxg4 fxg4 42.h5 Ke6 43.h6
Kf6 44.h7 Kg7 0-1

FINAL POSITION
[fen]8/6kP/8/p3p3/1p4p1/4K3/P7/8 w - - 0 45[/fen]

MCG was showing -10.25 here
WM 10.9
i resigned for the Boy Genius

WM scores 3-0 resulting in an abbreviated match

Best Of 5 match Vs. Novag Star Diamond Up Next Regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Steve B »

klute wrote:
Steve B wrote: continuing with my meaningless and immaterial observations
Speaking about the plastic trays that hold the pieces and batteries ...i notice two empty pockets for what looks like the adapter and the different connections
my guess is that Millennium originally planned to ship the unit with the adapter but wanted to keep the price to under 100 euro so they scrapped the idea
Nothing (well almost nothing) is meaningless or immaterial in Schachcomputer Land my friend.
here are a couple of features i am pleasantly surprised with..

1)you can change many of the options while the computer is on the move
2)i was trying to set up a position and i didnt know how to change the color of the pieces
i pressed the "help" button" and with a few presses it guided me through the whole process
cant recall any other computer i have that has this built in feature

My Meaningless Observations Continue...Regards
Steve
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Post by Steve B »

We Start the best of 5 match against the Novag Star Diamond
Selective Search rates the SD 2173



MCG was out of book at move 9..SD at move 14
a rather mundane affair with no side gaining any positional or material advantage
several times each computer avoided the 3 fold rep draw shuffling pieces back and forth aimlessly
finally both computers simply got bored and agree to repeat the positon 3 times



[Date "2015.11.26"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Novag Star Diamond"]
[Black "MCG"]
[TimeControl "1 Min./Avg"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 Nb6 7.O-O Be7 8.d3
O-O 9.a3 Be6 10.b4 f6 11.Bb2 a5 12.b5 Na7 13.Nd2 c6 14.a4 cxb5 15.axb5
Qc7 16.Na4 Nxb5 17.Rc1 Qd8 18.Bxb7 Rb8 19.Bg2 Nd4 20.Bxd4 Qxd4 21.Nxb6
Rxb6 22.Nc4 Ra6 23.Qa4 Ra7 24.Qc6 Bg4 25.Rc2 Rc8 26.Qd5+ Qxd5 27.Bxd5+
Kh8 28.Rfc1 Bb4 29.Ne3 Rxc2 30.Rxc2 Bd7 31.Rb2 g5 32.Kg2 Kg7 33.h4 gxh4
34.gxh4 Bc5 35.Rc2 Bxe3 36.fxe3 a4 37.d4 a3 38.Kf3 Be8 39.Ba2 Kf8 40.Rc8
Ke7 41.d5 f5 42.Kg3 h5 43.Rb8 Ra6 44.Kf3 Kd7 45.Rb7+ Kd6 46.Rb8 Bf7
47.Rd8+ Ke7 48.Rh8 Kf6 49.Rh6+ Bg6 50.Rh8 Kg7 51.Rd8 Bf7
52.e4 f4 53.Rc8 Ra7 54.Rc6 Kf8 55.e3 fxe3 56.Kxe3 Kg7 57.Kd3 Ra4 58.Rc4
Ra6 59.Rc7 Kf6 60.Rc1 Ke7 61.Rc8 Be8 62.Rb8 Ra4 63.Rb6 Bd7 64.d6+ Kf6
65.Ke3 Kg6 66.Kd2 Kh6 67.Kd3 Kg7 68.Kc3 Ra7 69.Rb1 Bc6
70.Rg1+ Kf6 71.Rf1+ Kg6 72.Be6 Bxe4 73.d7 Ra8 74.Bf7+ Kg7 75.Ba2 Rd8
76.Be6 Kg6 77.Kb3 Bc6 78.Bf5+ Kg7 79.Be6 Kg6 80.Bf5+ Kg7 81.Be6 Kg6
1/2-1/2

FINAL POSITION
[fen]3r4/3P4/2b1B1k1/4p2p/7P/pK6/8/5R2 w - - 0 82[/fen]

Exhausted Regards
Steve
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Post by Cyberchess »

Monsieur Plastique wrote:Well I am really chuffed. I was feeling relatively good and reasonably alert today, so I decided to challenge the Millennium Genius to another hardcore 40 moves in 2 hour game (playing level was set to Tournament 6). The machine was set to play at full strength with pondering on (ECO off). I played within my clock allowance and of course there were no take backs allowed. So this was a serious tournament game under tournament conditions.
Masterfully played, Jon!

I’ve been on the white side of the Bird’s variant of the Spanish game on more than one occasion. This was an especially excellent choice against a machine, as they excel in the open variation which leads to an early and enduring myriad of tactical complications. Another interesting choice might be the Breyer or Retreat variation (9… Nb8). Black expends time in the opening (usually not a good idea), but in actual practice white often has a tough time obtaining a tangible advantage.

Dragon Slayer Regards,
John
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Post by Cyberchess »

Steve B wrote:We Start the best of 5 match against the Novag Star Diamond
Selective Search rates the SD 2173



MCG was out of book at move 9..SD at move 14
a rather mundane affair with no side gaining any positional or material advantage
several times each computer avoided the 3 fold rep draw shuffling pieces back and forth aimlessly
finally both computers simply got bored and agree to repeat the positon 3 times
Thanks for taking my advice and initiating this SD/McG bout.
This should be a much closer and more interesting match, as the late model WunderMachine just has too much number crunching power.

Perhaps this match will make it to....

Overtime Regards,
John
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Post by Steve B »

Cyberchess wrote:
Thanks for taking my advice and initiating this SD/McG bout.
This should be a much closer and more interesting match, as the late model WunderMachine just has too much number crunching power.
Yeah the WM match felt like leading a lamb to the slaughter
too sadistic for my tastes...

1 Shade Of Grey Regards
Steve
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Post by Monsieur Plastique »

Steve B wrote:here are a couple of features i am pleasantly surprised with..
Another feature I like: At the end of a game you can run back through the entire game using the left arrow key then replay it move by move with the right arrow key (without the need to execute the moves on the board). I'm not sure if there is a hard limit but it had no problems at all with my 126 ply game yesterday, so I am assuming it is for practical purposes limitless. This makes recording the game very convenient, as you don't necessarily have to bother doing it on the fly if you don't want. I expect this was probably always a feature of the top-of-the-line Lang Mephistos back in the old days, however back then, since they did not have an LCD board display you would have needed to re-execute the actual moves on the board to re-create the game. In terms of my own experience, the only other machine I own that can do this (without the need to physically replay the game with pieces) is my Saitek Maestro.

Yes, self-resignation would have been nice but then again as Klute and I have often said, a computer that refuses to surrender his sword makes for good mating and late endgame practice. It's all very nice getting winning positions but every so often you will face a stubborn and disrespectful opponent who refuses to lay down their sword. For these scenarios, non-resigning machines are an asset.

Who can ever forget this highly embarrassing Anna Ushenina game from a couple of years back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFF5ibgB6eA

She should have practiced against her Lang Mephisto Regards
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Post by Monsieur Plastique »

Cyberchess wrote:This should be a much closer and more interesting match, as the late model WunderMachine just has too much number crunching power.
When you think about it though, there are good reasons this was always going to be a massacre. Firstly, the WunderMachine pre-dates the Genius program that defeated Garry Kasparov by only 12 months (1993 and 1994). The WunderMachine was running on a 486 at 66 Mhz I believe and the version of Genius that defeated Kasparov was running the earliest Pentium at 166 Mhz - the first generation upgrade from the fastest 486 processor. As most of us were well and truly working people back then we will probably all remember our office upgrades from a 486 machine to the Pentium. Yes, it was a noticeable improvement but it wasn't massive - more improvement actually came from the fact that newer machines were running more memory than the 486 models. It took a few years of Pentium development before the difference became a chalk and cheese one.

So realistically, there was far, far less playing strength difference between the WunderMachine and the machine that defeated Kasparov versus the former and the Millennium running on a mere 48 Mhz ARM processor (which realistically speaking in 2015 would be happily deployed in the most mundane of micro-controller applications).

Furthermore, you are always going to get an exaggerated result between two ostensibly similar programs when you pit them against each other and one has a significant hardware advantage. You only need to look at the results of matches where a machine plays against a significantly overclocked version of itself to see the performance rating difference is higher than their actual proper ratings would suggest.
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Post by Steve B »

Game two between the brash young upstart and the strongest chess computer Novag ever released for sale...


MCG was out of book at move 4!
SD out at move 8
both sides play evenly until move 33 when the SD begins to go astray
allowing the MCG to penetrate deep into its QSide
at move 40 the SD chooses the wrong square for its K to escape check and the white forces begin building a mating net which can only be avoided by the loss of heavy material


[Date "2015.11.27"]
[Round "2"]
[White "MCG"]
[Black "Novag Star Diamond"]
[TimeControl "1 Min./Avg."]
[Result "1-0"]

1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 b6 4.Bg2 Bb7 5.Nc3 g6 6.O-O Bg7 7.d3 O-O 8.Bf4 d6
9.Qd2 Qd7 10.Bh6 e6 11.Bxg7 Kxg7 12.Rae1 Nc6 13.Nb5 a6 14.Nc3 Rfe8
15.Na4 Qc7 16.Rd1 Nd4 17.Nc3 Bxf3 18.exf3 Qc6 19.Ne4 Nd7 20.f4 d5 21.Nc3
Nf6 22.Rfe1 Rad8 23.Re5 Qb7 24.cxd5 Nxd5 25.Nxd5 exd5 26.Rde1 Re6
27.Rxe6 fxe6 28.b4 Qe7 29.Qc3 Qf6 30.Kf1 Rc8 31.a3 h6 32.Qa1 cxb4
33.axb4 Nc2 34.Qxa6 Rc3 35.Re5 Nxb4 36.Qa7+ Kf8 37.Bh3 Nxd3 38.Qb8+ Kg7
39.Bxe6 Qf8 40.Qb7+ Kh8 41.Rxd5 Rc1+ 42.Kg2 Rd1 43.Qxb6 Ne1+ 44.Kf1 Nd3+
45.Ke2 Re1+ 46.Kd2 Rxe6 47.Qxe6 Nxf2 48.Ke2 1-0

FINAL POSITION
[fen]5q1k/8/4Q1pp/3R4/5P2/6P1/4Kn1P/8 w - - 0 48[/fen]

Showing Exquisite Etiquette...The SD Resigns here..

MCG Leads 1.5-.5

MCG Draws First Blood Regards
Steve
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