Millenium new release of chess computer

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Fernando
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Post by Fernando »

spacious_mind wrote:
Fernando wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:Here is another classic laugh:

http://www.classicchessandgames.com/Adv ... puters.htm

That page is supposed to cover Master Level Computers

Regards
Have you played it?
If so, how much elo it has in your opinion?
The Millenniums? Maybe 1200 if you are lucky.

Ah hahaha
what a nerve of those guys to say such a lie
BTW, I am playing in this moment Gambit by Fidelity -he is being smashed- and curiously as everybody say it has the same 4kb program of sensory 8 and probably Challenger 7, the box proclaim a 32Kb program....
Festina Lente
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mclane
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Post by mclane »

32 KB Bit Not kilobytes but kilobits.

1 byte is 8 bits.

32:8 = 4

Fidelity used the same marketing e.g. On the excellence package.


Btw millennium has first results versus
Milano pro / master chess :

http://www.millennium2000.de/sites/defa ... 310715.pdf
Last edited by mclane on Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

Fernando wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:
Fernando wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:Here is another classic laugh:

http://www.classicchessandgames.com/Adv ... puters.htm

That page is supposed to cover Master Level Computers

Regards
Have you played it?
If so, how much elo it has in your opinion?
The Millenniums? Maybe 1200 if you are lucky.

Ah hahaha
what a nerve of those guys to say such a lie
BTW, I am playing in this moment Gambit by Fidelity -he is being smashed- and curiously as everybody say it has the same 4kb program of sensory 8 and probably Challenger 7, the box proclaim a 32Kb program....
Yes the Gambit's are nice but unfortunately when I played them in a U1400 tournament they performed the weakest between CC6, 7, 8, Classic & Voice.

Regards
Nick
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Fernando
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Post by Fernando »

mclane wrote:32 KB Bit Not kilobytes but kilobits.

1 byte is 8 bits.

32:8 = 4

Fidelity used the same marketing e.g. On the excellence package.

I see...a bunch of rogues and pirats.....


Gamit is in tears...
from time to time I like to play these weaks machines to get a point without effort.
Not every day you are prone to expend time and neurons winning a strong unit...

Fern
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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

mclane wrote:32 KB Bit Not kilobytes but kilobits.

1 byte is 8 bits.

32:8 = 4

Fidelity used the same marketing e.g. On the excellence package.


Btw millennium has first results versus
Milano pro / master chess :

http://www.millennium2000.de/sites/defa ... 310715.pdf
Well trust it to lose at 30 seconds per game which I play the most :) But its promising means the strength might be around the same as Milano Pro (at least) when we get it in our hands.

Best regards

Hey!!! Just remembered we need to read this with suspicion. MP has a power save feature which if you don't turn it off, it plays around 200 ELO weaker. Could be posted results are meant to trick us. Someone needs to ask them under which Mode they played MP !!!!

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Nick
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klute
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Post by klute »

Fernando wrote:I wonder how many of these they will try to test the market....My bet: no more than 500....
If that sell well, another bath of 500...
and so and so...
Without being a fly on the wall of Millennium headquarters but nevertheless being in the supply chain and knowing how the economics of chess computer development and production works - my estimate is that Millennium would have had to order a production run of at least 2000 units from the factory.

For a new-to-market model, anything much less than 2000 units for an initial production run is simply not economically viable.

An order of only 500 units for a chess computer model would be more of a mid-range wholesale quantity, one step down in the supply chain.
The Klute offers you the white pieces and the advantage of the first move.
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Monsieur Plastique
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Post by Monsieur Plastique »

spacious_mind wrote:Well trust it to lose at 30 seconds per game which I play the most :) But its promising means the strength might be around the same as Milano Pro (at least) when we get it in our hands.
Not that 4 classical tournament games means terribly much but it got 75% on those games with no losses. I suspect that this dinky little machine would give an Atlanta and Star Sapphire an extremely rough time at tournament pace and has the potential to better them over a long and statistically meaningful match.
Chess is like painting the Mona Lisa whilst walking through a minefield.
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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

Monsieur Plastique wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:Well trust it to lose at 30 seconds per game which I play the most :) But its promising means the strength might be around the same as Milano Pro (at least) when we get it in our hands.
Not that 4 classical tournament games means terribly much but it got 75% on those games with no losses. I suspect that this dinky little machine would give an Atlanta and Star Sapphire an extremely rough time at tournament pace and has the potential to better them over a long and statistically meaningful match.
I would like to see some more facts. The out of the box setting is Power Save on, therefore unless you manually correct the computer to play without power save then that's what you are playing. These mistakes happen all the time. So I don't know what mode MP is playing. With PS its strength it around 1900.

Other problem is 2 games are shown out of 22. It lost to MP at 30 seconds per move. Wins 2 and ties 2 at tournament. There rest is meaningless to me. I doubt if it is much stronger than MP.

Probably when it comes out based on past manufacturer claims it will be listed at 3000 ELO.

Prefer to play it myself rather than trust their claims if it ends up being 1900 ELO then so be it, not a biggie, if it ends up being 2100+ then great. It's not going to cost a lot, cheaply build, horrible tiny plastic men.

Best regards
Nick
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Bryan Whitby
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Post by Bryan Whitby »

This is excellent news for chess computer enthusiasts and I know Richard is excited too.

But personally for me I would have preferred LED's around the board to indicate the ChessGenius moves instead of having to look at the LCD graphical display every time. Also I wouldn't have minded just a move readout on the LCD like the Excalibur models but apparently once the game starts you are stuck with the board representation only.

There is another new chess computer coming out in September. Well maybe not new but a cosmetic change. Lexibook are changing the appearance of their Chess Light. Same old Danielsen program but I have a Chessman Classic that I play against on a regular basis and really enjoy it. I love the modern design plus Danielsen's little program plays really well for it's size.
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klute
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Post by klute »

Chessmaster Ireland wrote:I would have preferred LED's around the board to indicate the ChessGenius moves instead of having to look at the LCD graphical display every time.
I too would have preferred to see border LEDs but from the accounting and manufacturing perspectives it comes down to minimising design, testing and production costs by using proven "parts bin" components wherever possible.

To employ a border LED solution would have added more cost to the product all along the line (and hence a higher retail price) than people might realise.

Saitek / Mad Catz / Mephisto discontinued the Chess Challenger in favour of the Explorer / Explorer Pro for broadly similar reasons.

Perhaps if the Chess Genius were to sell like hot cakes, then we might conceivably see a future model with border LEDs - but I can appreciate why Millennium has designed the Chess Genius the way it has.
The Klute offers you the white pieces and the advantage of the first move.
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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

klute wrote:
Chessmaster Ireland wrote:I would have preferred LED's around the board to indicate the ChessGenius moves instead of having to look at the LCD graphical display every time.
I too would have preferred to see border LEDs but from the accounting and manufacturing perspectives it comes down to minimising design, testing and production costs by using proven "parts bin" components wherever possible.

To employ a border LED solution would have added more cost to the product all along the line (and hence a higher retail price) than people might realise.

Saitek / Mad Catz / Mephisto discontinued the Chess Challenger in favour of the Explorer / Explorer Pro for broadly similar reasons.

Perhaps if the Chess Genius were to sell like hot cakes, then we might conceivably see a future model with border LEDs - but I can appreciate why Millennium has designed the Chess Genius the way it has.
Millennium does not really have much of a choice in the design. They don't manufacture computers, they are made in China and that is China's current design. Richard Lang is providing China with software that will work. Millennium who has committed to a certain manufacturing quantity in China is the money man who will define the sales price and distribution.

Hence the same look that you get with RYO, Powerbrain and all the other ones that put up some money to buy from the factory direct who up to this point have been stuck with just David Levy's program. The uniqueness is Richard Lang now being willing to add his software program to the factory's capabilities which gives Millennium an edge as Financer until a point in the future if sales are not up to scratch and they stop buying from China once again. China will then just continue selling Richard Lang themselves under RYO, Powerbrain and all the other names.

That's how the circle continues. Hey I am not knocking it, just stating how it works :) Just stating reality of the situation. I really am pleased that Richard has some interest in dedicated computers again.

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Nick
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

spacious_mind wrote:
I really am pleased that Richard has some interest in dedicated computers again.
Exactly
in fact ...this is the only reason i am interested in this baby
not the price ..not the design..not the rating
a Lang program with hardware never before released

Something Old And Something New Regards
Steve
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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

Steve B wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:
I really am pleased that Richard has some interest in dedicated computers again.
Exactly
in fact ...this is the only reason i am interested in this baby
not the price ..not the design..not the rating
a Lang program with hardware never before released

Something Old And Something New Regards
Steve
Ditto!
Nick
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Monsieur Plastique
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Post by Monsieur Plastique »

Chessmaster Ireland wrote:Also I wouldn't have minded just a move readout on the LCD like the Excalibur models but apparently once the game starts you are stuck with the board representation only.
I have a little PowerBrain portable and I think these and the Millenniums use ostensibly the same sort of board / board display (though the PowerBrain board has the touch sensitivity membrane overlay since it is a small portable).

My personal opinion is that these displays, though small, are nicer to look at and comprehend than the displays on, for example, the Excalibur machines as well as the larger displays in the Saitek Maestro portable, Novag Star Ruby and Star Sapphire machines. It's actually one of the very few LCD boards in a dedicated machine where I can play an entire game without feeling any need to refer to a larger board - despite the small size.

It actually reminds me more of the displays in early Saitek machines such as Mark V and Executive Chess (but it is smaller than those). As I say, my opinion only but if the Genius Millenium has the same sort of attention to build quality and shares that same type of display as the PowerBrain portable or their 8 in one machine then I will be more than satisfied.

But yes, I agree about board LEDs. But since these things obviously have to built to a price, I'd rather they use better actual materials and engineering principals than add extra parts and features which almost inevitably would result in a compromise on materials and overall build quality.
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Monsieur Plastique
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Post by Monsieur Plastique »

spacious_mind wrote:I would like to see some more facts. The out of the box setting is Power Save on, therefore unless you manually correct the computer to play without power save then that's what you are playing. These mistakes happen all the time. So I don't know what mode MP is playing. With PS its strength it around 1900.

Probably when it comes out based on past manufacturer claims it will be listed at 3000 ELO.

Prefer to play it myself rather than trust their claims if it ends up being 1900 ELO then so be it, not a biggie, if it ends up being 2100+ then great. It's not going to cost a lot, cheaply build, horrible tiny plastic men.
And in the meantime, may I present you with some bottles of water to fill your half empty glass :wink:
Chess is like painting the Mona Lisa whilst walking through a minefield.
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