Millenium new release of chess computer

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:39 pm

Monsieur Plastique wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:I would like to see some more facts. The out of the box setting is Power Save on, therefore unless you manually correct the computer to play without power save then that's what you are playing. These mistakes happen all the time. So I don't know what mode MP is playing. With PS its strength it around 1900.

Probably when it comes out based on past manufacturer claims it will be listed at 3000 ELO.

Prefer to play it myself rather than trust their claims if it ends up being 1900 ELO then so be it, not a biggie, if it ends up being 2100+ then great. It's not going to cost a lot, cheaply build, horrible tiny plastic men.
And in the meantime, may I present you with some bottles of water to fill your half empty glass

How do you know that's what I drink!!

I live on water and coffee and a pot of hot tea with milk/creamer in the evenings. Can't remember the last time I drank something alcoholic and soda's kill you so won't touch them.

Best regards

Bryan Whitby · Post by **Bryan Whitby** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:39 pm

Well the box is ready, photo here.
http://www.millennium2000.de/en/node/185

ChessGenius - details for the software
The production of the new, highly anticipated in the chess scene ChessGenius is imminent.
In the meantime, some chess friends have asked what ChessGenuis version of Richard long is used. It's the C version, which comes on the current smartphones to use and is based in principle on the ChessGenius London. The version has been simplified slightly for use on Smartphones. Also uses hash tables with 32 KB of memory, which will come to a very good level of play.
The design of the packaging is already done!
More information will follow soon. Stand by...

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:54 pm

spacious_mind wrote:
Monsieur Plastique wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:Well trust it to lose at 30 seconds per game which I play the most But its promising means the strength might be around the same as Milano Pro (at least) when we get it in our hands.
Not that 4 classical tournament games means terribly much but it got 75% on those games with no losses. I suspect that this dinky little machine would give an Atlanta and Star Sapphire an extremely rough time at tournament pace and has the potential to better them over a long and statistically meaningful match.
I would like to see some more facts. The out of the box setting is Power Save on, therefore unless you manually correct the computer to play without power save then that's what you are playing. These mistakes happen all the time. So I don't know what mode MP is playing. With PS its strength it around 1900.

Other problem is 2 games are shown out of 22. It lost to MP at 30 seconds per move. Wins 2 and ties 2 at tournament. There rest is meaningless to me. I doubt if it is much stronger than MP.

Probably when it comes out based on past manufacturer claims it will be listed at 3000 ELO.

Prefer to play it myself rather than trust their claims if it ends up being 1900 ELO then so be it, not a biggie, if it ends up being 2100+ then great. It's not going to cost a lot, cheaply build, horrible tiny plastic men.

Best regards

I have tested Dallas 32 bit at 40 MHz with Mysticum and it plays around 2100+ so probably this model of Millenium plays also around that.

Unknown ello regards
Ricardo

Post by **Fernando** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:27 pm

The essential thing we must NOT to forget is the fact that someone is again interested in delivering a dedicated unit and this time with a Lang program.
Anything else related to LEDS, size, plastic quality etc is almost irrelevant, though I read with interest all that because, after all, we must talk about something.
In that same vein, I would add that every one of us should get at least TWO machines in order to help the company to sell the stuff and becomes daring enough to deliver something else. Besides, it is a safety measure for any and every serious collector.

With two Marcus Aurelius age Roman coins regards
Fern

IanO · Post by **IanO** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:44 pm

Fernando wrote:The essential thing we must NOT to forget is the fact that someone is again interested in delivering a dedicated unit and this time with a Lang program.
Anything else related to LEDS, size, plastic quality etc is almost irrelevant, though I read with interest all that because, after all, we must talk about something.
In that same vein, I would add that every one of us should get at least TWO machines in order to help the company to sell the stuff and becomes daring enough to deliver something else. Besides, it is a safety measure for any and every serious collector.

With two Marcus Aurelius age Roman coins regards
Fern

Only two? Pshaw! I plan to buy five!

Post by **Fernando** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:52 pm

IanO wrote:
Fernando wrote:The essential thing we must NOT to forget is the fact that someone is again interested in delivering a dedicated unit and this time with a Lang program.
Anything else related to LEDS, size, plastic quality etc is almost irrelevant, though I read with interest all that because, after all, we must talk about something.
In that same vein, I would add that every one of us should get at least TWO machines in order to help the company to sell the stuff and becomes daring enough to deliver something else. Besides, it is a safety measure for any and every serious collector.

With two Marcus Aurelius age Roman coins regards
Fern
Only two? Pshaw! I plan to buy five!

Ok i will ask three

paulwise3 · Post by **paulwise3** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:56 am

Monsieur Plastique wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:I would like to see some more facts. The out of the box setting is Power Save on, therefore unless you manually correct the computer to play without power save then that's what you are playing. These mistakes happen all the time. So I don't know what mode MP is playing. With PS its strength it around 1900.

Probably when it comes out based on past manufacturer claims it will be listed at 3000 ELO.

Prefer to play it myself rather than trust their claims if it ends up being 1900 ELO then so be it, not a biggie, if it ends up being 2100+ then great. It's not going to cost a lot, cheaply build, horrible tiny plastic men.
And in the meantime, may I present you with some bottles of water to fill your half empty glass

Yes, it all depends on the way you look at it. This board looks a little too shiny, but as most of my comps are plastic I am used to the size of the pieces. And even if it would be "only" a 1900 elo machine, that would be great as far as I am concerned. I am delighted there is a perspective for more new models to come.
Ok, wooden boards would be great, but then the price would be too, and I guess the market for that is way too small. Only the old classic comp-lovers would be prepared to buy an expensive unit like that.
So, my ideal would be a wood-coloured machine, with real wooden pieces. As long as it costs not more then 250,-

Then I could convince my wife to spend the money regards,
Paul.

mclane · Post by **mclane** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:31 pm

Nobody stops you from using wooden pieces on this maschine.
It's press sensory. You can use any piece set that fits size.

Monsieur Plastique · Post by **Monsieur Plastique** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:54 am

paulwise3 wrote:This board looks a little too shiny

I agree and it was one of the first things I noticed. I've never known of a shiny sensory board before - they have all been mat or satin with a slight texture for practical reasons, so I'm not sure of the logic involved here. In my opinion a gloss chessboard - let alone a gloss sensory one - makes no practical sense at all. I certainly wouldn't have designed it like this myself.

I am therefore actually hoping it is just some sort of stylistic "touch up" for the publicity photos and the reality is that it will be a far more sensible, rugged and practical finish as we might have seen on the Scysis Companion II back in the early 80s (which is about the most "glossy" non-peg sensory sensor board I can recall (being very slightly satin).

Monsieur Plastique · Post by **Monsieur Plastique** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:57 am

paulwise3 wrote:And even if it would be "only" a 1900 elo machine, that would be great as far as I am concerned.

Even 1900 ELO (around Mephisto Advanced Travel) is good enough for almost anyone bar the strongest segment of amateur enthusiasts in my opinion.

That said, I would not be surprised if at the 40 in 2 tournament level this new machine may just crack the 2100 ELO barrier on the "old" SSDF scale (by old I mean before the wholesale reduction of every rating by 100 points). Meaning it would be a couple of hundred points stronger than say an MMIV which is 1904 on that same scale.

I've been comparing the two published Millennium games against Genius on my Windows phone and pretty much the moves will match on the tournament level towards the end of that extremely critical 7th ply. Given the program has a lot of knowledge and heuristics, etc, that late 7th ply depth is worth significantly more in my opinion than say, a 7th ply on an early 32K or 64K Morsch program which has less chess knowledge and plays a less humanlike game.

Put it this way, at that sort of setting Genius crushes me, yet I can usually stand a half decent chance against the Mephisto machines (Advanced Travel and Expert Travel).

To put it bluntly, if anyone goes around whinging and complaining about the strength of this new Millennium, I honestly think that engines are their thing, not dedicated computers. For those who have lamented the demise of strong mass market dedicated machines with relatively solid endgames (i.e Sapphire II, Atlanta), I think this machine should go a long way to filling that void. And of course it means that there are now three machines of similar abilities by three completely different authors rather than the virtually constant diet of Morsch machines and Kittinger-esque derivatives over the last two decades.

Bryan Whitby · Post by **Bryan Whitby** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:53 am

Monsieur Plastique wrote:
paulwise3 wrote:This board looks a little too shiny
I agree and it was one of the first things I noticed. I've never known of a shiny sensory board before - they have all been mat or satin with a slight texture for practical reasons, so I'm not sure of the logic involved here. In my opinion a gloss chessboard - let alone a gloss sensory one - makes no practical sense at all. I certainly wouldn't have designed it like this myself.

I am therefore actually hoping it is just some sort of stylistic "touch up" for the publicity photos and the reality is that it will be a far more sensible, rugged and practical finish as we might have seen on the Scysis Companion II back in the early 80s (which is about the most "glossy" non-peg sensory sensor board I can recall (being very slightly satin).

I might be wrong but didn't the Travel Champion 2100 have a shiny surface?

Monsieur Plastique · Post by **Monsieur Plastique** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:28 pm

Chessmaster Ireland wrote:I might be wrong but didn't the Travel Champion 2100 have a shiny surface?

Yes it did but you probably missed my qualifying statement where I was referring to "non-peg sensory" boards only. Obviously TC2100 utilises a plug-in peg sensory board.

Incidentally, I did not like that model either for the same reason. Very irritating under light, so I was very glad when they went back to mat textured finishes in the later iterations.

chesspcmac · Post by **chesspcmac** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:49 pm

Well... I hope they sell many of them and then they decide to sell Koning's The King since Revelation II is not yet doing it. For my part I'll be getting one for me and now that Christmas is getting closer and closer ...you know what my nephews will be getting for Christmas

Merry regards

Mike

Monsieur Plastique · Post by **Monsieur Plastique** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:48 am

I am relieved. I just got word from Millennium that the board will have a matt finish. It was as I suspected - all the photos in existence are just publicity mockups as they had to be produced well before manufacturing commenced.

Monsieur Plastique · Post by **Monsieur Plastique** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:29 am

Here is a little test game I played between Genius on my Windows phone and the Saitek Mephisto Advanced Travel (1897 ELO old SSDF scale). I set the level on Genius such that the search depth resulted in exactly the same moves as the 40 moves in 2 hour demo game published on the Milennium website at tournament level. This equates in complex middlegame situations to a search towards the end of the 7th ply or the very early 8th ply excluding extensions, checks and swap-offs - this is comparable to a machine such as the Sapphire II. I think the only differences between this and the upcoming dedicated machine is that the dedicated machine will use it's time more efficiently (having a proper tournament level) and the hash will be limited to 32K (as opposed to 64K on the phone). Apart from a bit of excessive Queen meandering it's not a bad game. It settles on an attack on a weakened kingside, sticks to it's guns and does not relent. Also nice to watch is the knight excursion from c6 to d8 to e6 to g5 to h3.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2015.08.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Mephisto Advanced Travel"]
[Black "Chess Genius"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C44"]
[WhiteElo "1897"]
[PlyCount "90"]

1. c4 e5 2. e4 Nc6 3. d3 Nf6 4. Nf3 Bc5 5. Bg5 O-O 6. Nc3 h6 7. Bxf6 Qxf6 8.
Be2 d6 9. Nd5 Qg6 10. O-O Bh3 11. Nh4 Qg5 12. Nxc7 Rab8 13. Nd5 Qxh4 14. gxh3
f5 15. Bf3 Qxh3 16. Rc1 fxe4 17. Bxe4 Bd4 18. b3 Qh4 19. Rc2 Rf7 20. Bg2 Rbf8
21. Qe1 a6 22. Re2 Kh8 23. Qd2 Qg4 24. a3 Qg6 25. b4 Qg4 26. Kh1 Qh4 27. Re4
Qh5 28. Re2 Nd8 29. Kg1 Ne6 30. a4 Ng5 31. b5 Nh3+ 32. Bxh3 Qxh3 33. Re3 Bxe3
34. Nxe3 Rf6 35. Ng2 Rg6 36. f3 Rxf3 37. Rxf3 Qxf3 38. a5 e4 39. dxe4 Qxe4 40.
h3 Qxc4 41. b6 Qc5+ 42. Kh2 Rg5 43. h4 Qxa5 44. Qxd6 Qe5+ 45. Qxe5 Rxe5 0-1