RU Interested in a Higher ELO Tournament-Mysticum/Gavon etc?

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:46 pm

steffen wrote:Hard decision. Come, please decide for me

Well, I don't know what you have!! Take Stockfish or something similar.

Ok the way I estimate it, your 500 MHz Mysticum has about 873 DMIPS, so you are slightly less than regular Gavon:

Code: Select all

HARDWARE	MHZ	DMIPS
GAVON 3	1500	2355
MYSTICUM 1000 1746
GAVON 2	900	1710
MYSTICUM 500 873
REVELATION 2	800	1025
GAVON	700	965

Therefore if you pick the strongest you can then technically everyone else can pick any program they want from the above.

Except for Ricardo because I believe his Mysticum is stronger than any of the above, I would need his Mysticum Specification and of course Gerhard with his super high speed Mysticum.

I am thinking that we create a limit of engine choice for these two based on year created. With Gerhards limit being higher than Ricardo's.

Or we could limit it for them based on ELO's taken from here:

http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/

Where Gerhard can't pick a program over a certain ELO and Ricardo too. Because of course the concern is that if Gerhard for example takes very best program for his Mysticum then of course no one else has a chance. Therefore we have to equalize it a little.

Anyway what are your thoughts on this?

Best regards

Dave C · Post by **Dave C** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:23 am

Hi Nick,

I have a Gavon2 and was thinking of playing Stockfish 6. But I like your idea of trying to get the competitors balanced, in terms of playing strength.
Let me know which engine you recommend as you seek to coordinate the entries.

Thanks,
Dave

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:29 pm

spacious_mind wrote:
steffen wrote:Hard decision. Come, please decide for me
Well, I don't know what you have!! Take Stockfish or something similar.

Ok the way I estimate it, your 500 MHz Mysticum has about 873 DMIPS, so you are slightly less than regular Gavon:
Code: Select all
HARDWARE	MHZ	DMIPS
GAVON 3	1500	2355
MYSTICUM 1000 1746
GAVON 2	900	1710
MYSTICUM 500 873
REVELATION 2	800	1025
GAVON	700	965
Therefore if you pick the strongest you can then technically everyone else can pick any program they want from the above.

Except for Ricardo because I believe his Mysticum is stronger than any of the above, I would need his Mysticum Specification and of course Gerhard with his super high speed Mysticum.

I am thinking that we create a limit of engine choice for these two based on year created. With Gerhards limit being higher than Ricardo's.

Or we could limit it for them based on ELO's taken from here:

http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/

Where Gerhard can't pick a program over a certain ELO and Ricardo too. Because of course the concern is that if Gerhard for example takes very best program for his Mysticum then of course no one else has a chance. Therefore we have to equalize it a little.

Anyway what are your thoughts on this?

Best regards

I have 2 Mysticums, One goes at 1,6 GHz single core and the other goes at 1,86 GHz dual core. I agree that we have to equalize between some limits.

Best regards

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:52 pm

ricard60 wrote:
I have 2 Mysticums, One goes at 1,6 GHz single core and the other goes at 1,86 GHz dual core. I agree that we have to equalize between some limits.

Best regards

Can you give me the actual model and specs of both.

@Gerhard, also for your Mysticum.

Best regards

kgvetter · Post by **kgvetter** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:33 pm

Hi,

my current Mysticum is based on an Intel i7 4790 (4 cores @ 4,3 ghz, 8 MB Ram). Obviously, running at full speed and with a strong engine, it would leave the competition in the rain, if that metapher is allowed. Therefore I suggest to run an emulation of e.g. MM4 or MMV, it should be interesting enough if an old program running on steroids can compete with the modern engines...

Just a suggestion, I am open for any sensible input.

Gerhard

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:10 am

kgvetter wrote:Hi,

my current Mysticum is based on an Intel i7 4790 (4 cores @ 4,3 ghz, 8 MB Ram). Obviously, running at full speed and with a strong engine, it would leave the competition in the rain, if that metapher is allowed. Therefore I suggest to run an emulation of e.g. MM4 or MMV, it should be interesting enough if an old program running on steroids can compete with the modern engines...

Just a suggestion, I am open for any sensible input.

Gerhard

Yep that would make you faster by about a doubling factor of 7.32 when compared to Steffen. Based on that I would if we go for engines and full speed then I would probably like to Handicap with you being to only pick a program below ELO 2950 from the List below:

http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/

At a guess for Ricardo I would suggest below ELO 3100.

Therefore if we went wide open on speed for all the Mysticums and Gavon we would be ok for the rest as the difference between all the others would be less than a factor of 2 therefore @ 100 ELO and with Steffen picking first he can choose to be very competitive.

Regarding MM4 or MM5, I don't think that even at the high speed that you have on your Mysticum that they will be very successful if this is an open tournament.

I would suggest if you want to try it that we do a second tournament at the same time with some other handicaps. Both Michael and I have Mysticum's that can be set to 500 MHz through CPUID to make them about the same as Steffens and we could select engines below say 2700 ELO from the same list and for Gavon users we just handicap a little the choice of program allowed to play (say 2600 from my Gavon Rating Lists). In this way you would have a tournament that suited and should be fun around MM4/MM5, Ricardo could take an engine say below 2500 from the list I linked.

Any way those are some suggestions I have, we could do one or the other or both as tournaments.

If any of you have other ideas or suggestions to make this a fun and competitive tournament then please post your thoughts.

Best regards

ricard60 · Post by **ricard60** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:14 pm

spacious_mind wrote:
ricard60 wrote:
I have 2 Mysticums, One goes at 1,6 GHz single core and the other goes at 1,86 GHz dual core. I agree that we have to equalize between some limits.

Best regards
Can you give me the actual model and specs of both.

@Gerhard, also for your Mysticum.

Best regards

The 1,6 GHz has 2 GB of ram ddr2 and the Mysticum 2 (1,86 GHz) has also a 2 GB ram but ddr3 ram. Both CPU are Intel atom. The Mysticum 1 (1,6 GHz) can also be slowdown by CPUID at 800 MHz , it was tested and it is ok. The Mysticum 2 have not tested with the CPUID. I believe there is also some gain when using ddr2 or ddr3 ram.

Best regards
Ricardo

blaubaer · Post by **blaubaer** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:57 pm

Hi,

my suggestion would be, to use "NCCRS", to be sure, that all participating engines on their different hardware platforms have more or less the same strength. Doing this will assure an exciting tournament!

NCCRS? -> Nick's Chess Computer Rating System

So, what we should to before the tournament, is performing Nick's test on our engine(s) of choice and publish the result. We should then fix the ELO range and throttle the hardware if possible or take another engine to reach the requested ELO range.

What do you think?

Just My 2 Cents Regards,
Michael

paulwise3 · Post by **paulwise3** » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:17 pm

blaubaer wrote:Hi,

my suggestion would be, to use "NCCRS", to be sure, that all participating engines on their different hardware platforms have more or less the same strength. Doing this will assure an exciting tournament!

NCCRS? -> Nick's Chess Computer Rating System

So, what we should to before the tournament, is performing Nick's test on our engine(s) of choice and publish the result. We should then fix the ELO range and throttle the hardware if possible or take another engine to reach the requested ELO range.

What do you think?

Just My 2 Cents Regards,
Michael

Sounds like a good suggestion to me

I was planning anyway to test a few engines with Nick's testgames.

Regards,
Paul

blaubaer · Post by **blaubaer** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:07 am

Hi Nick,

when do we start - in January 2016?

(Late) Christmas and New Year Regards,
Michael

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:29 am

blaubaer wrote:Hi Nick,

when do we start - in January 2016?

(Late) Christmas and New Year Regards,
Michael

Hi MIchael,

Thanks Merry Christmas to you too. We can start anytime. We just need Steffen to begin by telling us which program he wants to play with

Best regards

blaubaer · Post by **blaubaer** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:57 pm

Hi Nick,

you already made a strong recommendation for Steffen....

Meanwhile I built my Gavon 3. A chess computer with remote control; nice feeling...

Let's start mid of January...

Regards,
Michael

steffen · Post by **steffen** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:43 pm

Hi,
I will play Stockfish 5.
Cathy would also like to participate, but her Mysticum is not yet finished.
Steffen

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:05 pm

steffen wrote:Hi,
I will play Stockfish 5.
Cathy would also like to participate, but her Mysticum is not yet finished.
Steffen

Great so we have one firm entry:

1) Steffen Mysticum 500 MHz Stockfish 5

Steffen, can you provide the information on the Hardware for Cathy's Mysticum.

Regards
Nick

spacious_mind · Post by **spacious_mind** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:40 pm

Great, we now have 10 people who showed interest.

Nick - Mysticum 1000 MHz or Gavon 2 or 3
Steffen - Mysticum 500 MHz
Michael - Mysticum 1000 MHz or Gavon 3
Dave C - Gavon 2
Oswaldo - Res II or Ipaq (I need spec confirmed for Ipaq if you are playing with it)
Gerhard - Mysticum 4.3 GHz
Walter - ?? TBD
Ricardo - Mysticum 1.6 GHz or Mysticum 1..83 GHz 2 Core
Cathy - Mysticum ?
Paul - Gavon 2 or Gavon 3 ?

Here are a couple of my suggestions:

1) The picking of program will be done based in order of Hardware strength from slowest to fastest, which I will list as soon as I have all the hardware from everyone confirmed. I have entered above the ones that I know of so far.
2) Since we have so many different programmers and chess programs to choose from, I would suggest that:
2a) no more than 1 version of the same named chess program can enter. (example Steffen picked Stockfish therefore Stockfish is now out)
2b) no more than 2 versions of the same chess programs can enter. (Example Steffen picked Stockfish 5 therefore 1 more Stockfish version is allowed)

Let me know what you think about either 2a) or 2b) ? I think this would make it more fun, more variety and more skillful in the programs that are chosen to enter the tournament. But we must decide on either 2a or 2b. My vote would be 2a)

Also since this is a tournament that is not really rushed do we limit 1 program per person or 2 programs per person?

Best regards