Strangely high serial number for Fidelity SC9

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Larry
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Post by Larry »

I just occurred to me that a good position to test which speed SC9 you
have is this mate in 3 with white to move:
[fen]5k2/8/5K2/8/8/5R2/8/8[/fen]
The original SC9 will take around 70 - 75 secs depending on whether
it is the 1.5mhz or the slightly later 1.6mhz. The SC9B will mate in around
50 secs. White starts with *any* rook move.
If yours is a 3mhz or 3.2mhz it can be expected to take around 35 seconds.
You will have the level set at level 9 (infinite).
Hoping you get a nice surprise...
Larry
Peter63
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Post by Peter63 »

Thanks Larry!

I will do this test when it arrives.
I dont expect it the next few days because we have the Easter weekend .
Meanwhile I did the test with my Mephisto Supermondial2.
It´s a 6502 processor at 4 mhz and it announced mate in 29 seconds.
Let´s hope I get the speedy SC9!

regards /Peter
Peter63
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Post by Peter63 »

Hello!

Today I got my SC9 with the high seriel number. 40xxxxxx
It's in great condition and everything works as it should.
In order to find out which version it is, I did the colditz test recommended on the German wiki-elo site.
The first test is the Colditz pos. 7.
The sensory 9a should solve the pos in 5:25 min. and the 9b in 4:23.
My sc9 solved it in 3:39 min, so this indicates it could be the 3mhz version.
When I should do the other pos. nr 11, I couldn't think of how to tell it's blacks turn to move?
Does anybody here know how to start the computer to calculate as black?
Please help me if you know this!

regards /Peter
Larry
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Post by Larry »

Peter63 wrote:Hello!

Today I got my SC9 with the high seriel number. 40xxxxxx
It's in great condition and everything works as it should.
In order to find out which version it is, I did the colditz test recommended on the German wiki-elo site.
The first test is the Colditz pos. 7.
The sensory 9a should solve the pos in 5:25 min. and the 9b in 4:23.
My sc9 solved it in 3:39 min, so this indicates it could be the 3mhz version.
When I should do the other pos. nr 11, I couldn't think of how to tell it's blacks turn to move?
Does anybody here know how to start the computer to calculate as black?
Please help me if you know this!

regards /Peter
I think when you first power up you press D1 before anything else. Then
go ahead and set up a position. Hope I'm right
L :wink:
Regarding the solving time, it's looking good. As an extra test, on startup
and on the 5sec level, play the out-of-book 1.h4 and let us know what
the reply move is.
L.
BillT
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Post by BillT »

Hi Larry
I've just put my SC9's through your test. .interesting.
Here's the results.

SC9A.....1 min 16 seconds.....ie 76 seconds
SC9B.....1 min 1 second.........ie 61 seconds

It appears my B version still has a slower crystal. (1.6mhz ?)I wasn't expecting that ! I was hoping it would be the 3 mhz at least,but this result suggests not......pity...Especially seeing as the B has a later serial number beginning with 4 (see my previous post).

Best wishes
Bill

BTW...you need to press square C5 not D1 before any other button presses to clear the board in order to set up a position. 😉
Peter63
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Post by Peter63 »

Hello again.

Now I have learned a bit more about SC9 and how to use it. First , I must correct myself . I have now discovered the DM button. Using it, you can see exactly when the computer finds a move. I read about how to make Colditz tests and that is the time when the computer findes a move. Not when it makes it.

As I wrote earlier the SC9A should use 5:25 min and SC9B 4:23 to find the correct move in Colditz pos 7. My SC9 finds it in 2:19 min.

In position 11 the SC9A use +10 min. and SC9B 7:54.
My SC9 finds correct move in 4:03.

When I start a new game on level 1 with h4, it responds with b6.

So I think I'm the lucky owner of a SC9B speed!!

:D

regards /Peter
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Peter63 wrote: So I think I'm the lucky owner of a SC9B speed!!

:D

regards /Peter
Glad your computer arrived in working order
however with this 3 Mhz business...
don't recall Fidelity ever releasing the SC9 at 3 Mhz
only 1.6Mhz(SC9a) and 2Mhz(SC9b)..not in the US anyway
Im guessing the SC9 was overclocked to 3Mhz somewhere in Europe and probably only sold in Europe ..perhaps with Fidelity permission..perhaps not

Semi-Modified Regards
Steve
Larry
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Post by Larry »

Steve B wrote:
Peter63 wrote: So I think I'm the lucky owner of a SC9B speed!!

:D

regards /Peter
Glad your computer arrived in working order
however with this 3 Mhz business...
don't recall Fidelity ever releasing the SC9 at 3 Mhz
only 1.6Mhz(SC9a) and 2Mhz(SC9b)..not in the US anyway
Im guessing the SC9 was overclocked to 3Mhz somewhere in Europe and probably only sold in Europe ..perhaps with Fidelity permission..perhaps not

Semi-Modified Regards
Steve
When the SC9 was being sold new a French company was over clocking
some of them to 3.2mhz. The first SC9s were running at 1.5mhz, later
in the production run Fidelity upped the clock speed to a mind blowing
1.6mhz, an increase of 0.1 MHz, making a negligible performance
difference. But Peter is saying his way outperforms even the later SC9B
which runs at 2mhz. Peter's is, by the way, an SC9b judging by its response
to the opening move 1.h4 I asked him to make.
Peter, could you set up this position?
[fen]4k3/8/4K3/8/8/4R3/8/8[/fen]
Set the level to level 9 (infinite) and with white to move. Tell us how many
seconds it takes for the mate-in-three announcement. If it mates in under
30 seconds we are sending in the marines.
L :lol:
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Larry wrote:
When the SC9 was being sold new a French company was over clocking
some of them to 3.2mhz.
thats what i thought...
the crucial question now is whether or not Fidelity authorized the speed-up
if Fidelity did not authorize this then..sadly .. we have nothing more then yet another...

Modified Computer Regards
Steve
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Sargon1972
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Post by Sargon1972 »

Hello ,

Yes some SC9 where over clocked back then by a French company
But Fidelity did sell the latest versions also with 3mhz serial nr above 32xxxx,at the end Fidelity sold a lot what was still in storage ,with some computers with a Mhz more ore less
Also the latest Super Cony normal on 4.0MHz where at the end sold with 5MHz by Novag.
Also a Interesting thing is that some Fidelity Elite Champion where sold with 3MHz ! as the normal wiki say 4MHz .
I have seen it myself with a 3MHz CPU not 1x but 2x .
So i think ,not many people will decrease their chess computer to less MHz
To mine thoughts it was at the end a big mess by Fidelity at the end ,and did sell all they could

Kr,Hans
Hello
I am from Netherlands and many years involved with computerchess
It,s a way of life i suppose :p

Kr,Hans
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Sargon1972 wrote:Hello ,

Yes some SC9 where over clocked back then by a French company
But Fidelity did sell the latest versions also with 3mhz serial nr above 32xxxx,at the end Fidelity sold a lot what was still in storage ,with some computers with a Mhz more ore less
Kr,Hans
I don't think so Hans
never saw a 3mhz SC9 offered for sale in the US
never advertised ..never offered by any Retailers at the time
hard to imagine that Fidelity in 1989 (when they went out of business) would suddenly start selling overclocked SC9's from 1982.. seems unlikely to me
ill review the CCR's at the time of Fidelity's demise(1989) and see if there is any mention of this selling off of old stock with upgrades
Perhaps Ron Nelson can shed some light on this if he is reading this thread

Unlikely Regards
Steve
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Sargon1972
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Post by Sargon1972 »

Hello Steve,

Indeed there where no adds of this CC9 at 3MHz ,selling was more important than the advertising at the end ,and it was a mess at the end by Fidelity
Also as we disused before about the EAG2100 5 ore 6mhz ,i have mine from first owner and runs with 6mhz ,and he buy it this way by Wegam Trading in Holland ,i have not test it yet but i think it is equal with the Designer 2100 on 6mhz .
Yes if Ron could give any answer to this ,it would be indeed helpful

Kr,Hans
Hello
I am from Netherlands and many years involved with computerchess
It,s a way of life i suppose :p

Kr,Hans
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

Why Stop at only 3Mhz for the SC9?
how about 5?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chess-Computer- ... OSwy5ZXDAU~

Master Modder Strikes Again Regards
Steve
ChessChallenger
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Fidelity Clock Speed

Post by ChessChallenger »

Hi all early Chess Computer fans.

Steve asked me to log back in to contribute to this thread about the SC9.

But frankly it was back in 1982 a LONG time ago and my memory of those times is cloudy if not non existant.

But there is one fact I know, which is Fidelity Electronics, LTD. went bankrupt and closed it doors (pad locks...was a shock to see that in the morning) on February 21, 1984.

That was 2 years after the SC9 was produced, and Fidelity after bankruptcy, Fidelity Computer Products, then Fidelity International, Inc (I was Vice-President), never reworked clock speeds of computer chess games.

Now back to clock speed, as I mentioned in a previous post, the only time I (Fidelity) over clocked a CPU was with the Par Excellence. We tested 4MHZ 65c02 processors to find reliable working 5MHZ units.

The SC9 was not a 65c02 but rather a 6502. We used the latest chips available.

I tried to lookup the speed history of the NMOS 6502 but was not successful.

In 1981 the Chess Challenger Sensory Champion used a 2MHZ 6502.

I myself can remember no reason to produce a slower speed game with the SC9 at 1.6 MHZ, and then follow it with a 2 MHZ version a year later.

Fidelity never gave anyone permission to speed up it's computer chess games. No one ever asked as far as I know.

Regards,
Ron Nelson
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Steve B
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Re: Fidelity Clock Speed

Post by Steve B »

ChessChallenger wrote:

But there is one fact I know, which is Fidelity Electronics, LTD. went bankrupt and closed it doors (pad locks...was a shock to see that in the morning) on February 21, 1984.

That was 2 years after the SC9 was produced, and Fidelity after bankruptcy, Fidelity Computer Products, then Fidelity International, Inc (I was Vice-President), never reworked clock speeds of computer chess games.

Fidelity never gave anyone permission to speed up it's computer chess games. No one ever asked as far as I know.
Thanks Ron for your invaluable insight as usual

SC9 at 3Mhz now officially classified as a....

Modified Computer Regards
Steve
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