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Mephisto Europa A / Manhattan - Nona vs Fritz playing style
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appleshampogal
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Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Mephisto Europa A / Manhattan - Nona vs Fritz playing style Reply with quote

Hey all!

I've been trying to find information on this cute little computer called the Europa and variants thereof. I understand that it is based on the "Nona" program. Now, I already have a Mephisto Chess Challenger that contains a slightly enhanced Fritz 1. Is the Nona program within the Europa A different enough in its style, strengths and weaknesses to justify a purchase, or is it more like a proto-fritz? Wanted to hear from anyone who has this computer or is familiar with the Morsch lineage. Thank you Smile
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spacious_mind
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How well are you performing against your Mephisto Chess Challenger? The Europa has older hardware, which makes it not quite as difficult to beat than the Challenger. Therefore if you are finding it tough against Challenger then the Europa would be a good choice.

Best regards
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appleshampogal
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spacious_mind wrote:
How well are you performing against your Mephisto Chess Challenger? The Europa has older hardware, which makes it not quite as difficult to beat than the Challenger. Therefore if you are finding it tough against Challenger then the Europa would be a good choice.

Best regards


I do alright when I set it to low levels like 1-5 seconds per move, and disabling the permanent brain, but higher levels would demolish me. I understand from your tests that it plays around 1755 elo, which would definitely be easier and less overwhelming but still is strong enough to allow me to grow with the computer. But just as it's important to guage its strength I also want to have a diverse collection of styles. Someone on the forum once said that the Europa occasionally would play Super Constellation type sacrifices that were speculative. I've never regarded my Challenger as such, which made me think that perhaps the program was different enough from the Challenger to include. Do you know if such claims are true? I wouldn't want to just get a clone.
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spacious_mind
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

appleshampogal wrote:


I do alright when I set it to low levels like 1-5 seconds per move, and disabling the permanent brain, but higher levels would demolish me. I understand from your tests that it plays around 1755 elo, which would definitely be easier and less overwhelming but still is strong enough to allow me to grow with the computer. But just as it's important to guage its strength I also want to have a diverse collection of styles. Someone on the forum once said that the Europa occasionally would play Super Constellation type sacrifices that were speculative. I've never regarded my Challenger as such, which made me think that perhaps the program was different enough from the Challenger to include. Do you know if such claims are true? I wouldn't want to just get a clone.


You would find it different because of the slower speed. If you can get it a low price then go for it.
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scandien
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

The Mephisto Europa is a good machine for a club player. It playing style is interesting and with real qualities. It can lose piece due to basic pinning.

Obviously it is quite weak in tactics, but with this weakness is style is more human-like. It has a good positional feeling, and a good club player should often wait for endgame to be able to take advantage on the machine, because the machine is weak during endgame.

best regards

Nicolas
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paulwise3
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that I was the one talking about speculative sacrifices.
Talking about strength: the Europa is about 1700 elo (1800 USCF?), and the mephisto cc is about 300 elo stronger. So the Europa could be a better sparring partner for you.
At the german ebay the europa goes between 15 - 20 euro.

Sparring regards,
Paul
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kosterix
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or an europa a, you get a fake leather bag with it.
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Berger
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Full Name: Gerardo M.
Location: Barcelona (CATALONIA)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Three years ago I held a little tournament (40mov/2h) between chess computers of 1800 ELO approximately, and from different programmers:

http://foro.meca-web.es/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=649

Although it is in Spanish, I think the tables and games can be easily understood. Wink

Note that in each of the embedded PGNs, there is a selector (top left) with which you can choose the game.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Europe's hardware is very "simple". I was especially surprised that the program has some "lacks": For example, if I remember correctly, it's not able to detect draw by repetition.

Best regards,
Berger
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paulwise3
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Berger,

Thanx for the tournament!
And yes, the Europa does not detect draw by repetition. I saw it happen several times in a match I played between the Europa and the CXG Sphinx Concerto. In all cases, the Concerto played with black, evaluated its position as slightly less, and satisfied itself with move repetition in the early middlegame.

Best regards,
Paul
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kosterix
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

on a french site i read that it plays boring.
Since europa does not observe chess rules I would skip this one.

perhaps the europa a?
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Berger
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulwise3 wrote:
(...) In all cases, the Concerto played with black, evaluated its position as slightly less, and satisfied itself with move repetition in the early middlegame.

Good tactic! Very Happy

kosterix wrote:
perhaps the europa a?

Mmm.... I was talking about Europa A.

Regards,
Berger
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IvenGO
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If somebody likes Mephisto Europa very much its better to find CXG Sphinx Chess Professor as it contains same hard- and software + has 4x7 info LCD
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paulwise3
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kosterix wrote:
on a french site i read that it plays boring.
Since europa does not observe chess rules I would skip this one.

perhaps the europa a?

Europa and Europa A contain the same program. It plays an active style, a little like the Super Constellation. And if not recognizing move repetition is the only bug...
But I hate to go in this kind of discussion. It's your choice, and for this money you have no risk anyway.
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Berger
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's a nice computer... and very cheap! why not have one? Smile

Regards,
Berger
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kosterix
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because I bougt a Kasparov and not only did it sometimes freeze, it played just without any plan. Especially in the end game it seemed to play like a little kid that had just learned the rules.
Did not give me a nice feeling, like I had just wasted an hour of my life and had stuffed my house with another box.

OK another question: given that I have a star aquamarine, ordered a Constellation (not super), should I order a Europa A too?
I am recreational player, and do not have any ambition to become world pro, just looking for a diverse playing opponent.

I'm having trouble winning vs the aquamarine (on lowest level, A1), win ratio about 1:4, so the europa a would be a nice way to become better, no?
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