TASC B/V Collection

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spacious_mind
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TASC B/V Collection

Post by spacious_mind »

Here is my collection of Tasc B/V

TASC B/V

TASC R30

R 30 GIDEON WITH SB 30 BOARD
R 30 KING 2.2 WITH SB 30 BOARD
R 30 KING 2.5 WITH SB 30 BOARD

The Gideon program is what Ed Schroeder auctioned in 2013. It was never officially released. To play it and King 2.2 you need the version 1 SB 30 chess board.

KING 2.23 ROM

King 2.23 ROM is what I believe Hans v M. obtained from Cock de Gorter who was I think the author for some opening books used by the King chess program.

Missing Tasc R40 to complete my collection.

CHESSMACHINES

CM 16 MHZ 1024K - EXTERNAL
CM 16 MHZ 1024K - EXTERNAL - AMIGA
CM 16 MHZ 1024K - INTERNAL
CM 30 MHZ 128K - INTERNAL
CM 30 MHZ 512K - INTERNAL
CM 32 MHZ 512K - INTERNAL

With CM 16 1024 internal, there are about 3 different versions of this card when tested they solve positions at slightly different times. So you could say the cards vary from 14 MHz to 16 MHz. A couple of them also are designed differently. Someday I need to pull them out of my old DOS computers and photograph them all. I have about 5 or 6 of these cards and this allows me to also play the different programs against each other.

The CM 16 External is a box that connects to a PC. The External is buggy and the two that I have don't work. Perhaps I need to kindly ask Berger if he is interested in looking at them :)

There is also an external 16 MHz Amiga version that I have. With this one I am frustrated with myself. I had it working a few years ago, but I seem to have lost the Amiga program disk to permanently install it onto a A1200 Hard drive, so for the moment it is out of commission. As you can imagine finding another Tasc B/V Amiga Chessmachine program disk is virtually impossible.

The CM 30 MHz 128 KB and 512 KB are virtually the same from design, except of course the 512 KB is a lot stronger. Never realized how much difference the additional memory makes until you play these two. Aslo I have doubles on both in old computers that allows me to play the different programs against each other.

The CM 32 MHz Chessmachine is the flagship of this range. It seriously is strong and stronger than the TASC R30 in my opinion. Its a later version ARM added to its 32 MHz. Probably at least as strong as an R40 with the added advantage of being able to play 10 different King and Schroeder chess programs.

A lot of people consider the Tasc Chessmachines as hybrids, neither dedicated or PC. But I beg to differ, I consider them as dedicated chess computers, since the card is what drives the program, the PC is only used as storage or display and SB 20 and SB 30 boards can be attached to play chess just like you would with an R30 or Novag Universal board or even Mephisto Modulars. You cannot play the Mephisto modular without the board or display unit or vice versa. With the Chessmachines it is the same one does not work without the other. The same also applies with the R30's and R40's.

CHESSMACHINES CHESS PROGRAMS

GIDEON 1.3
GIDEON 1.7
GIDEON 2.1
GIDEON 3.0
GIDEON 3.1 MADRID
KING 0.5
KING 1.0
KING 2.0
KING 2.2
KING 2.54

What makes the Chessmachines so special is the above. Many versions of Schroeder's and de Koning's.

My Chessmachine collection is complete.

FINAL CHESSCARD

THE FINAL CHESSCARD (ENGLISH) - C64
THE FINAL CHESSCARD (GERMAN) - C64

The Final Chesscard was available for Commodore 64 and PC. I am missing the PC version. With the Commodore C64 version I have the German and English version. The English version is very rare.

What makes Tasc B/V so special is that the boards are a pleasure to use and the programs are all super strong and provide a lot of excitement and challenge.

In addition you can use both the SB 20 and SB 30 boards to play most of the old DOS programs such as Fritz, Genius, MCPro's etc etc.

Overall all I would say that Tasc B/V is my favorite of all my collection as there is so much to do with them with regards to variety. The concepts, design and quality of executions makes them all really unique.

SB BOARDS

SB 20 works with R30 King 2.5, Chessmachines and DOS Chess programs
SB 30 V1 works with King 2.5, 2.2, 2.23, Gideon, Chessmachines and DOS Chess programs
SB 30 V2 works with King 2.5, Chessmachines and DOS Chess programs

Best regards
Nick
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Steve B
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by Steve B »

spacious_mind wrote:
A lot of people consider the Tasc Chessmachines as hybrids, neither dedicated or PC. But I beg to differ, I consider them as dedicated chess computers, since the card is what drives the program, the PC is only used as storage or display and SB 20 and SB 30 boards can be attached to play chess
Hi Nick
just to be clear....the PC has its normal operating system cancelled and the only thing the PC can do once the card is inserted is play chess?
so for example ....you cannot access any PC programs such as a text editor or a spread sheet?
if that's true then I would agree its a dedicated chess computer
however..if other programs can be accessed with the card inserted then it does not meet the strict definition of a dedicated chess computer

same for my Wundermachine....the windows operating system is still present and I can access many PC programs (both chess programs and non chess programs)in addition to the Genius programs..so the WM does not meet the definition of a dedicated chess computer

Strict Regards
Steve
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Fernando
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by Fernando »

Steve B wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:
A lot of people consider the Tasc Chessmachines as hybrids, neither dedicated or PC. But I beg to differ, I consider them as dedicated chess computers, since the card is what drives the program, the PC is only used as storage or display and SB 20 and SB 30 boards can be attached to play chess
Hi Nick
just to be clear....the PC has its normal operating system cancelled and the only thing the PC can do once the card is inserted is play chess?
so for example ....you cannot access any PC programs such as a text editor or a spread sheet?
if that's true then I would agree its a dedicated chess computer
however..if other programs can be accessed with the card inserted then it does not meet the strict definition of a dedicated chess computer

same for my Wundermachine....the windows operating system is still present and I can access many PC programs (both chess programs and non chess programs)in addition to the Genius programs..so the WM does not meet the definition of a dedicated chess computer

Strict Regards
Steve

I wonder how you would classify The Turk. Clock machinery, centaur half cogs half flesh, half entertainment half imposture?

Antiquarian regards
fern
Festina Lente
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Steve B
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by Steve B »

Fernando wrote:
I wonder how you would classify The Turk. Clock machinery, centaur half cogs half flesh, half entertainment half imposture?

Antiquarian regards
fern
Ahh the Turk...
i was lucky enough to acquire it recently...
Image

now i am searching for the original
Mephisto Regards

Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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blaubaer
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Post by blaubaer »

Hi Nick,

your Tasc chess board collection seems to be nearly complete. 8)

In total there are 4 different chess board types:

- SB20 Type1 (analog piece rcognition): King 2.5 only
- SB20 Type2 (digital piece recognition): King 2.5 only
- Sb30 Type1 (analog piece regognition): King 2.2, 2.23, 2.5 and Gideon
- SB30 Type2 (digital piece recognition): King 2.5 only

Meanwhile I own all four types.

Regards, Michael
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spacious_mind
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Post by spacious_mind »

blaubaer wrote:Hi Nick,

your Tasc chess board collection seems to be nearly complete. 8)

In total there are 4 different chess board types:

- SB20 Type1 (analog piece rcognition): King 2.5 only
- SB20 Type2 (digital piece recognition): King 2.5 only
- Sb30 Type1 (analog piece regognition): King 2.2, 2.23, 2.5 and Gideon
- SB30 Type2 (digital piece recognition): King 2.5 only

Meanwhile I own all four types.

Regards, Michael
Hi Michael,

I have 3 SB 20's so now you are making me go and look at them all a little closer :)

Best regards
Nick
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by spacious_mind »

Steve B wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:
A lot of people consider the Tasc Chessmachines as hybrids, neither dedicated or PC. But I beg to differ, I consider them as dedicated chess computers, since the card is what drives the program, the PC is only used as storage or display and SB 20 and SB 30 boards can be attached to play chess
Hi Nick
just to be clear....the PC has its normal operating system cancelled and the only thing the PC can do once the card is inserted is play chess?
so for example ....you cannot access any PC programs such as a text editor or a spread sheet?
if that's true then I would agree its a dedicated chess computer
however..if other programs can be accessed with the card inserted then it does not meet the strict definition of a dedicated chess computer

same for my Wundermachine....the windows operating system is still present and I can access many PC programs (both chess programs and non chess programs)in addition to the Genius programs..so the WM does not meet the definition of a dedicated chess computer

Strict Regards
Steve
Ok here is my attempt at convincing Steve :)

Tasc Chessmachines came out in 1991/1992. Windows 3.0 came out in 1990 and Windows 3.1 in March 1992. This is to show you just how ancient the conditions were when it was conceived. So if you think about the development of these Chessmachines, they could realistically be loaded by:

1) Installing the ISA Card into a ISA Card slot on a computer. (Modern computers don't have ISA Cards Slots for an ISA card, so you can't use a modern computer with Tasc.

2) You have to install the software in DOS. So to run them you have to be in DOS, in its DOS folder where you run the exe program to start it.

3) You can't switch screens from DOS to run something else with ALT + Tab to play or use anything else. If you tried to run it under Windows 3.1 it would be very cumbersome and sluggish so you really cannot run a spreadsheet with the Chessmachine. You either play a game of chess or you work on a spreadsheet you cannot do both.

4) Even assuming you could do both, regardless it makes no difference to the Chessmachine as all its calculations happen on the Chessmachine and not on the PC. All you would perhaps do is slow down a move message that gets sent to the Chessmachine which would only slow it down in receiving that message. Once the Chessmachine finishes its calculation all it does is send the message to the computer telling it to update the screen and a message to the SB board telling it to move. Nothing else happens. Therefore it is as unique to dedicated chess as any Mephisto Module you can think of. On Mephisto modules and R30 the actual work happens in the modules or R30. The Tasc Chessmachine is exactly the same.

Nowadays because of the PC Emulations you can even consider that the Chessmachine is more pure to its original intent than a Mephisto or a Fidelity because to emulate a Chessmachine would be extremely hard to do in my opinion and so far it has not been done as far as I know.

Best regards
Nick
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by Steve B »

spacious_mind wrote:

2) You have to install the software in DOS. So to run them you have to be in DOS, in its DOS folder
3) If you tried to run it under Windows 3.1 it would be very cumbersome and sluggish so you really cannot run a spreadsheet with the Chessmachine. You either play a game of chess or you work on a spreadsheet you cannot do both.


4) Even assuming you could do both, regardless it makes no difference to the Chessmachine as all its calculations happen on the Chessmachine and not on the PC.
Sorry Nick
its possible i didnt understand your explanation fully but it seems the operating system is still present and can be used while the card is inserted
just because it would be sluggish makes no difference
like wise..just because the calculations are made on the card and not by the PC processor is also irrelevant
a dedicated chess computer must be able to play chess ONLY and not do anything else
thats what the word "dedicated"means

ill ask my question another way...while the card is inserted...can you bring up the Windows system and run a non chess program?

A Simple Yes Or No Would Suffice Regards
Steve
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by spacious_mind »

Steve B wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:

2) You have to install the software in DOS. So to run them you have to be in DOS, in its DOS folder
3) If you tried to run it under Windows 3.1 it would be very cumbersome and sluggish so you really cannot run a spreadsheet with the Chessmachine. You either play a game of chess or you work on a spreadsheet you cannot do both.


4) Even assuming you could do both, regardless it makes no difference to the Chessmachine as all its calculations happen on the Chessmachine and not on the PC.
Sorry Nick
it seems the operating system is still present and can be used while the card is inserted
just because it would be sluggish makes no difference
like wise..just because the calculations are made on the card and not by the PC processor is also irrelevant
a dedicated chess computer must be able to play chess ONLY and not do anything else
thats what the word "dedicated"means

Disqualified Regards
Steve
That's like saying play chess without batteries or power supply :) We should all go back to non dedicated chess boards. The presence of all the other stuff is on a harddrive (a rom). You have two harddrives on Prestige :)

It is also like saying that all the dedicated chess computers that play chess and checkers are not dedicated because of something else that they keep on their ROM harddrive.

Regards
Best regards
Nick
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by Steve B »

spacious_mind wrote:
That's like saying play chess without batteries or power supply :) We should all go back to non dedicated chess boards. The presence of all the other stuff is on a harddrive (a rom). You have two harddrives on Prestige :)

It is also like saying that all the dedicated chess computers that play chess and checkers are not dedicated because of something else that they keep on their ROM harddrive.



three weak arguments
1)when i turn on my Prestige all i can do is play chess..nothing else
2)power supply's have nothing to do with the definition of a dedicated computer
3)chess computers that can also play checkers like the Mickey 4-1 are not dedicated chess computers

what you have is a dedicated chess CARD but installing it in a PC does not make that PC a dedicated chess computer


Not Even Close Regards
Steve
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by spacious_mind »

Steve B wrote:
two weak arguments
power supply's have nothing to do with the definition of a dedicated computer
chess computers that can also play checkers like the Mickey 4-1 are not dedicated chess computers

what you have is a dedicated chess CARD but installing it in a PC does not make that PC a dedicated chess computer


Not Even Close Regards
Steve
Well we are getting closer at least with the word dedicated that you added to the card :) Agreed the card on its own can't play chess. But is that so different to Mephisto Lyon for example or the Tasc R30? By your definintion the Tasc R30 has a screen in its unit but it still can't play chess. Mephisto Lyon is totally useless. It needs another Computer to power its LCD instructions. Both are still useless as neither can play chess without a board. The board is useless too as it needs both other models to work.

Definitiion of computer:

Technically, a computer is a programmable machine. This means it can execute a programmed list of instructions and respond to new instructions that it is given. Today, however, the term is most often used to refer to the desktop and laptop computers that most people use. When referring to a desktop model, the term "computer" technically only refers to the computer itself -- not the monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Still, it is acceptable to refer to everything together as the computer. If you want to be really technical, the box that holds the computer is called the "system unit."

So if we become technical, mephisto has a dedicated "system unit", R30 has a dedicated "system unit", chessmachine has a dedicated "system unit"

Best regards :)
Nick
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by Steve B »

spacious_mind wrote: Well we are getting closer at least with the word dedicated that you added to the card :) Agreed the card on its own can't play chess. But is that so different to Mephisto Lyon for example or the Tasc R30? By your definintion the Tasc R30 has a screen in its unit but it still can't play chess. Mephisto Lyon is totally useless. It needs another Computer to power its LCD instructions. Both are still useless as neither can play chess without a board. The board is useless too as it needs both other models to work.

Definitiion of computer:

Technically, a computer is a programmable machine. This means it can execute a programmed list of instructions and respond to new instructions that it is given. Today, however, the term is most often used to refer to the desktop and laptop computers that most people use. When referring to a desktop model, the term "computer" technically only refers to the computer itself -- not the monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Still, it is acceptable to refer to everything together as the computer. If you want to be really technical, the box that holds the computer is called the "system unit."

So if we become technical, mephisto has a dedicated "system unit", R30 has a dedicated "system unit", chessmachine has a dedicated "system unit"

Best regards :)
your just parsing words here Nick
fine by me if you want to consider your PC with the Card inserted as a dedicated chess computer
i dont see it that way
reminds me of a debate i had with a guy who came here years ago trying to convince me that his PC met the definition of a dedicated chess computer because he removed all programs except the one that play chess
that angle(although creative) didnt work either
:P

Its All In The Cards Regards
Steve
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Post by spacious_mind »

Here is my definition of dedicated chess computer:

"A chess device is a unique piece of hardware whose sole intention is to play chess at a constant performance."

Meaning if the unit can only play at 16 MHz then it cannot be switched to 32, 64, 128, 1 GB speed etc because if it does then it is no longer a dedicated unit but a high speed computer artificially used to simulate a dedicated unit.

If it has that ability then it is no longer dedicated to what the manufacturers of chess computers originally intended for the program they sold.

That distinguishes to me the difference of a chess program on a PC or even a dedicated chess pc unit and a dedicated chess unit.

You can load a chess software program onto faster PC's and play it faster. You cannot load a dedicated unit into a faster unit and play it faster or you cannot take the software with you to load it into something faster like on a faster PC. regardless if that something faster is a Pentium, ARM etc. It has to stay inside of the definition of the original manufacturers hardware specs.

You can build a faster unit, but that faster unit itself becomes dedicated if its sole purpose is to play chess at that constant advertised speed. If it plays at a dozen different speeds it now becomes a piece of pc software.

Anyway that's how I define a dedicated chess computer. Steve of course I accept how you define them too. We all don't have to agree on everything :)

Best regards
Nick
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by red_potatoes »

Steve B wrote: reminds me of a debate i had with a guy
Yesterday I ordered a Raspberry Pi Zero W, a small $10 board that I will use to run picochess off of a microSD card. I, personally, have no interest in ever connecting the board to a monitor or keyboard, so the machine will, in effect, be dedicated for me.

Steve's definition got me to wondering, though - what if I superglued in the microSD card and disabled the USB port and video out. Would that make it a dedicated computer? By Steve's definition, I think I'm getting pretty close.

Related - what about the DGT Pi, Steve - do you consider that to be a dedicated chess computer?

I'm also wondering if implicit in Steve's definition of dedicated chess computer is the idea that someone has to manufacture multiple copies of it, for sale. Rather than someone like me just "building my own" from off-the-shelf parts and code. Where I have no meaningful electronics, coding or manufacturing background whatsoever :)
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Re: TASC B/V Collection

Post by Steve B »

red_potatoes wrote:

Steve's definition got me to wondering, though - what if I superglued in the microSD card and disabled the USB port and video out. Would that make it a dedicated computer? By Steve's definition, I think I'm getting pretty close.

Related - what about the DGT Pi, Steve - do you consider that to be a dedicated chess computer?

I'm also wondering if implicit in Steve's definition of dedicated chess computer is the idea that someone has to manufacture multiple copies of it, for sale.
the definition of the word "dedicated" is not really "my"made up definition
i have had countless discussions over the past several decades with many collectors and there was never any confusion over the definition of "dedicated" ..there is no confusion now ..although there might be some attempts at redefining it
its not rocket science
I have always understood it to mean that the computer can only play chess..nothing else..period..
as to the Raspberry PI if that's all it will do then yes it is dedicated
if the situations you describe will modify your computers in such a way that they will only play chess then yes of course they would be dedicated
there are many instances of homemade or modified computers which will only play chess ..they are dedicated chess computers as well..nothing new here

the issue of manufacturers selling computers has nothing..to do with this definition
that is a question of collectability..two different issues

there are some collectors(I amongst them) who will only search for and collect..unmodified dedicated chess computers ,released for sale in their original state

Two Different Issues Regards
Steve
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