YoYo's Fidelity Serial Number Theory

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yoyo_chessboard
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Post by yoyo_chessboard »

look at this ebay bid :

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Scacchiera-elett ... SwuxFY2X7-

it is beautiful not for the board nor for the price (too expensive for me) but for the serials.

the cartridges are all of the same batch.
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Post by Mike Watters »

Amazing auction Yoyo.
The fact that the seller doesn't know what he is doing, you cannot be sure anything is working properly and it isn't a v.2 almost irrelevant.
Many thanks. It will be fun to watch the price spiral upwards.

Mike
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Post by Mike Watters »

yoyo_chessboard wrote:hi Mike,

Berger's IFP is this one :
Fidelity Printer IFP 03260017

you say that you sold yours : did you sold to Berger or are you speaking of another one.
Hi Yoyo

I have a working Thermal Printer and I sold a faulty one in the 2016 Sale & Swap ( http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/sal ... malPrinter )
to a well known collector in Spain, who would have asked Berger to try to repair it. What turned out to be a far from straightforward repair I believe.

Mike
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Steve B
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Post by Steve B »

yoyo_chessboard wrote:look at this ebay bid :

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Scacchiera-elett ... SwuxFY2X7-

it is beautiful not for the board nor for the price (too expensive for me) but for the serials.

the cartridges are all of the same batch.
Hi yoyo

that auction has already been posted before your post
please try to read the other threads before posting
even a quick glance will do
who knows..you might even find some of the other threads interesting

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=80310#80310

Forum Etiquette regards
Steve
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microhenri
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Post by microhenri »

Berger wrote:Hi all!

I have data from 2 Voice Sensory CC with s/n beginning with 8...

Model: VSCC
Zip Code: 33178
1)
s/n: 855565
ROM datecodes: (8)033, (8)027, (8)031
2)
s/n: 866469
ROM datecodes: (8)031, (8)031, (8)030

So the earliest date is 1980, Week 27

Regards,
Berger
I should say the latest date of the ROM in the VSCC with serial 855565 is 1980 week 33. It is most likely that they labeled the computer after this date because they have to produce the ROM’s first before assembling the computer.
So the 8-digit code must be introduced between week 33 and week 37 of the year 1980.

microHenri
yoyo_chessboard
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early fidelity serials

Post by yoyo_chessboard »

i think we have almost reversed all the timeline.
it remains just an effort to produce for the early years till sept-1980.

i made this file with the serial numbers that are prior to the first 8 digits serials.
we now admit that the 8digits started someday between july and september 1980 as first 8digits is for week 38 of 1980.

when we look at the previous serials we see that there are two postal code.
the first in chicago , the second in miami.

i have reworked my list and i find it more readable for these early years.
for the moment, i have voluntary put :
1980 for miami
1979 for chicago
and 1978 for serials with unknown postal code.

for the moment we know, for sure, according the label, that serial 197294 is the last from chicago
and 233903 is the first from miami for the same reason.

but we have many serials and could have more insurance if we check them.
if serials after 233903 are all from miami, and serials prior to 197294 from chicago we could admit that the first numbering system was just an increasing system with no particular use of year,day.
so simply the newer product has a bigger serial.

most of those early serials are from Mike Watters.

so Mike,
could you take some time to look at the postal code of some of the listed serials :

that could permits to established more preciseliy from which number fidelity moves to miami.

i imagine it can be painfull as your chessboards are probably carefully packed to protect them. there are 11 serials from that early period.

http://www120.zippyshare.com/v/MrnfOety/file.html
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Re: early fidelity serials

Post by Mike Watters »

yoyo_chessboard wrote: most of those early serials are from Mike Watters.

so Mike,
could you take some time to look at the postal code of some of the listed serials :

that could permits to established more preciseliy from which number fidelity moves to miami.

i imagine it can be painfull as your chessboards are probably carefully packed to protect them. there are 11 serials from that early period.

http://www120.zippyshare.com/v/MrnfOety/file.html
No problem Yoyo. It is exactly as you say.
SN 8302 through to SN 172259 all Chicago 60639
SN 393661, 394056, 558709 all Miami 33178

Your CC1 SN added to the list Nick. Thanks.

All the best
Mike
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spacious_mind
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Re: early fidelity serials

Post by spacious_mind »

Mike Watters wrote:
yoyo_chessboard wrote: most of those early serials are from Mike Watters.

so Mike,
could you take some time to look at the postal code of some of the listed serials :

that could permits to established more preciseliy from which number fidelity moves to miami.

i imagine it can be painfull as your chessboards are probably carefully packed to protect them. there are 11 serials from that early period.

http://www120.zippyshare.com/v/MrnfOety/file.html
No problem Yoyo. It is exactly as you say.
SN 8302 through to SN 172259 all Chicago 60639
SN 393661, 394056, 558709 all Miami 33178

Your CC1 SN added to the list Nick. Thanks.

All the best
Mike
I have a higher 60639 ZIP

Chess Challenger 10B CCX 195598

Thanks
Nick
Nick
yoyo_chessboard
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Post by yoyo_chessboard »

hi
sorry for that long message, but in it i have tred to summarize what we have learned.

i have reworked the fidelity list of serials.

i think it is now more readable and also more usefull for different purposes.

http://www106.zippyshare.com/v/wR2Wr3rH/file.html

i have made some periods, which are linked to an algo of numbering and/or an adress in Chicago or Miami

period_1:
from the beginning in Chicago till the move to Miami.

for that period, it looks like Fidelity numbered sequencially, the newer board the bigger serial.
i have put all these board in 1979.
there is some rework to do as we know that some boards appeared in 1977 IIRC, but the boards are all in that same period.

period_2:
From the beginning in Miami (postal code is FE_33178 ) till numbering algo with 8 digits.

serial numbers follow the same algo than in period_1.
only the adress has changed, from Chicago to Miami.
i made it start in january 1980 till week 37 of 1980 (mid-september)
we are not sure of the beginning of that period but we have a good indication of the end (week 37/1980).

period_3:
Fidelity postal code is FE_33178 in Miami.
that period starts in september 1980 and ends somewhere between week 15 and week 21 of 1986, according to the serial we collected.

introduced in september 1980, the new serial number is on 8 digits :
YDDDSSSS
Y:last digit of year
DDD : day in year(from 1 to 366)
SSSS: serial : it is supposed that that serial number is reset every week and that sounds very logical.
spacious_mind suggested that and also idenfified that friday was the day of labelling the boards produced.

period_4:
Fidelity postal code is FI_33014 in Miami
that period starts in week 21 of 1986 and ends at end of 1989.
all is the same as in period_3, just the postal_code has changed.
so we can mix period_3 and period_4 with no side effect.

exploring the 1990's is more difficult.
i have identified two different structures, so two periods.

period_5:
there are 8digits serial number that follows the previous algo.
but the first serial is 0243xxxx.
if that period_5 really follows immediatly period_4, that would mean that Fidelity didn't labelled anything between last label of 1989 (somewhere in novembre 1989) and
first label of that period_5 which is 02431869, so day 243 of 1990 (last friday of august 1990).
it doesn't match.
Fidelity has necessary done something between december 1989 and august 1990.
i can't imagine that Fidelity closed so long (8 monthes).

period_6
there are 8digits serial number starting with 000xxxxx.
even if it has 8digits, it can't be the same structure as previously because we only have serials starting with 0005, 0006, 0007,0008 and 0009.
they can't have just labelling for a week or two in a year !


so the conclusion for the moment :

all seems clear and matches from the beginning of fidelity till end of 1989 (period 1 to period_4), and we have 286 serials.

but from january 1990, i don't know if serials from period_5 were before of after serials of period_6.
we have 34 serials at the moment.
for example, kishon chesster (speaking german) appeared after chesster challenger (speaking english). it could means that period_5 is prior period_6.
but i am not so sure of that.

another solution would be that fidelity started to number from 0 in january 1990 and changed his mind in august to go back to the old numbering system.


as you see, none of the solutions matches perfectly for years 1990 and 1991.

i don't have enough historical knowledge to determine that.
also i don't know how many times fidelity had a bankrupty and if that could explain one or more of these holes.

mike and spacious_mind, as you have a better knowledge, you could find a logic in that mess for 1990/1991, may be using with the chronology of models.


some practical uses of that list :
example 1:

now we know that SC9B was introduced in october 1983.
so i have tagged as SC9A all that are prior to that moment, and SC9B those after.
we can now identify a SC9A from a SC9B just from the serial number and that matches the board owned by mike_watters for example.
today i have seen a SC9 on auction but, according to the serial, it is a SC9A and i already have one.

example 2:

Excel 68000 Mach IIC+ (Los Angeles) 6097 80646187
Excel Mach II 6097 80646219
Excel 68000 Mach IIC+ (Los Angeles) 6097 80646801

the Excel in the middle of the sandwich was on Ebay some weeks ago , and the two others are those of spacious_mind and mike_watters, two references.
they are all 3 form the same batch.
so we can think the Excel in the middle is an Excel 68000 Mach IIC+ (Los Angeles) just according its serial.
if we see another one on Ebay in that serial area it will be for sure also an excel Mach II LA

i will be pleased if someone has an idea about 1990/1991.

regards.
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microhenri
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Post by microhenri »

Maybe this helps you a little to get the correct year to the early serials:

Model, Serial #, Zip Code, ROM datecode
VCC, 392754, 33178, ROM datecodes 7940 7932 7933

These ROM datecodes are from 1979. The production rate of the chess computers is high and increasing so I do assume that they do not stock there ROMs for months. That is why I think that this computer is labeled October or November 1979.

microHenri
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Post by yoyo_chessboard »

thank microhenri

that is exactly the kind of info i expect.

even if we can't exactly date the board we know , at least , that it was produced somewhere after week 40 of 1979

now there are only few persons that can help us:

berger with that board
Chess Challenger 7 CC7 197294

mike watters with: many serials between 8302 and 71313

and mike -spacious mind with Chess Challenger 10B CCX 195598
for years 1977 to 1979.

this one is also interesting because it is between week 40_1979 and week 19_1980, probably after the near year.(it is from spacious_mind)

Chess Challenger 7 (French) 558709

but that suppose that they open their board and not everybody is ready for such a "desecration".

regards.
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Berger
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Post by Berger »

yoyo_chessboard wrote: berger with that board
Chess Challenger 7 CC7 197294
ROM datecode = 7922

Regards,
Berger
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Post by spacious_mind »

Below is how I approximately see the timeline starting in 1977 and ending in 1980:

Fidelity Serialization Timeline 1977 - 1980

Image

I will share the excel spreadsheet as soon as I have completed the other years.

Please let me know your comments regarding the year splits. I am estimating that around the 1979 4th of July U.S. Holiday week, Fidelity made the move from Chicago to Miami, as it makes sense to do it while people are off on vacation for that week.

The serial # 14314 was probably originally a CC1, maybe upgraded to CC3 and then to CC10. Or CC1 to CC10.

Also #34749 seems to be an upgraded CC3 to CC10.

Best regards
Nick
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Post by spacious_mind »

Here is the list of Fidelity imported computers between 1987 and 1992:

Image

This one was really tricky to figure out and is a best guess at best, but I was able to follow Mike UK Timeline quite closely most of the time. Some of date codes also helped a lot to order it. Some time before August 1991 it seems that Fidelity moved buildings again. This was probably again during a July 4th shutdown week.

The imports were all really from a CXG factory in China and wherever they built the boards that Mephisto also used a lot in their designs.

The realization that Fidelity changed zip codes in August 1991, however I think helped to place the 1990 computers that were serialized in Miami which are listed below:

Image

Now with this list, I am sure that Mike is not going to be too happy with me, as I think I have turned the UK Timeline list upside down :)

If you look at the above list you will see immediately that Miami in 1990 focused primarily on the more expensive computers. This was done at a time when the demand for chess computers was declining and people just did not want to spend those high prices on them anymore when for a few dollars more they could buy a good pc and have a good selection of chess software to play on them.

The new decade also forced a change in the serial numbers which at first we thought were a continuation from the 80's where the 1st digit was the year followed by 2nd, 3rd and 4th digits being the day count of the year. However when you try that you will quickly see that for 1990 it doesn't work as everything would have been built in a few days in January and nothing else was built for the rest of the year. For the same reason, the week count does not work well either as almost everything would have been serialized in the 1st quarter of 1990 and almost nothing for the rest of the year.

So that left a month count to look at, which I am showing above. Here is how I think Fidelity may have done their Miami serials through 1990.

1) In the 1st week or the first day or so, they continued with the day count hence SteveB's computer follows the 1980' pattern by being serialized on Friday, January 5, 1990.
2) They then changed to a month count were the 1st digit after the 3 zeros is the Month.
3) By the time month September came along they may have decided that the month count does not work anymore and they reverted back to week numbers as you can see with the Chesster Challenger and some leftover Designer 2000's.

So there it is, this theory does mess up the UK timeline for the years 1990 to 1992 :). Also when you look at the above, please consider that the zip codes are all 33014, therefore a Premiere previously shown for 1992 could not have been built in 1992 as Premiere would have then had a zip code of 33172 which of course is not the case.

Anyway I hope you enjoy this alternate date theory :)

Best regards
Nick
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Post by yoyo_chessboard »

i still don't know what exactly to think about 1990-1991.

today i looked at the photos i made some weeks ago of the kishon chesster N° 00086095
it is a 6120G and not a 6127, and running at 3.58 Mhz.
i have not any idea of the differences between 6120G and 6127, if any.

most of the 74xx IC are from 9013 to 9023.

but kishon chesster ROM has that label : v2.6 1/14/91.
and the PROM itself has datecode 9101.
All is soldered directly on the PCB (they didn't add the ROM after, for example).
so we could imagine that that kishon 6120G is from early 1991, probably second half of january
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