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fhub
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Post by fhub »

spacious_mind wrote:Here is a Fidelity Reversi:

Fidelity Reversi Sensory Challenger - Model # RSC - 1981

Image
And here is my CB-Emu version: :D

Image

Regards,
Franz
yoyo_chessboard
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Post by yoyo_chessboard »

hi Franz

from which version did you made the graphical interface for reversi and where to find it?

when i contacted you some monthes ago, you said you would not make it.

i have brought dames international to MAME recently (the 10*10 board).
could/would you integrate graphical interface for that 10*10 dames international also ?

soon also i expect to bring the 8*8 US checkers.

same question for that 8*8.

thank you for your hard work.

regards.
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Post by spacious_mind »

fhub wrote:
spacious_mind wrote:Here is a Fidelity Reversi:

Regards,
Franz
Well Franz, you are 36 years too late with the emulation as an emulation already existed in 1981 :)

Image

Best regards
Nick
fhub
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Post by fhub »

Hi yoyo!
yoyo_chessboard wrote: from which version did you made the graphical interface for reversi and where to find it?
Well, it's the version which exists in MAME since a few months, so I guess it is from your ROM.
when i contacted you some monthes ago, you said you would not make it.
Yes, at this time I had enough work with all the new chess modules, so I was indeed not interested in a reversi emulation, but now I had some free time and it was just a challenge for me.
But it was indeed a nightmare to write the piece and board support, because the operation of this machine is rather unlogical (in some points) and so quite hard to emulate (I had to find a few completely new methods).
i have brought dames international to MAME recently (the 10*10 board).
could/would you integrate graphical interface for that 10*10 dames international also ?

soon also i expect to bring the 8*8 US checkers.
same question for that 8*8.
Yes, I saw this 10x10 dame emulation and in principle it's already running in CB-Emu, but no piece support yet - there are 3 main problems:
1) I don't find a user manual for this 10x10 version, only for the 8x8, but has no sensory board and so it's operation is certainly quite different.
2) Since this dame challenger has no board LEDs, it's not easy to know which piece(s) to remove after a capturing move has been made.
3) And finally the board representation is very different to chess (only diagonals and consecutive numbers instead of board coordinates), so again I would have to think about a new method.

Most important is a manual, because without it I have no idea how all the features actually work - but if I would have such a manual, I would probably try it.

Regards,
Franz
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Post by yoyo_chessboard »

Hi Franz,

for reversi :
i wanted to say : from which version of CB-Emu do you have the support of the figures. It is in MAME from june 2016 as you stated.

in my CB-Emu from mid-march 2017 , i don't find that board in the listed boards
so i suppose that it is a recent release on even a 'non yet released' release.
anyway i would be pleased to have the link to download that version as reversi is my favorite game.
the figures looks like 'old style' dames pawns'

for checkers 8*8 i have bought one on Ebay this week.
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/152395364390
so i will have it next week and will have a notice.

for international dames (10*10), i have this one :

http://www117.zippyshare.com/v/DDeLqFVf/file.html
regards
fhub
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Post by fhub »

Hi yoyo,
yoyo_chessboard wrote: so i suppose that it is a recent release on even a 'non yet released' release.
Yes, I've just made it in the last few days, so of course it's not released yet.
But since you are such a fan of Reversi - here it is for you: :)
http://www2.zippyshare.com/v/kc2rXszt/file.html
Just unzip it over your existing CB-Emu folder.

A few remarks about this reversi emulation:
1) Like some other Fidelity modules it responds quite slowly to mouse clicks, so don't make too short or fast mouse clicks - always hold down the mouse key until you get the confirmation beep from the module!
2) In my first version you had to click also on each piece which should be turned (i.e. on the squares with blinking LEDs), but due to the strange operation logic I could not make taking back moves (RV) working with this method. So I've change my method and now turning pieces is done automatically (which BTW is much more comfortable)!
This means that for your own move you FIRST have to click on your intended (empty!) square, and if this move is ok the program will switch on the relevant LEDs (blinking for the pieces to turn, fixed for your own piece). Now you just have to confirm your move by clicking AGAIN on this same square (with the fixed LED), then all pieces are updated automatically.
After a computer move you only have to make ONE click at the square with the fixed LED, which again automatically executes all necessary actions.
3) If any of your clicks was too short and is not registered by the module (i.e. the pieces change, but the LEDs stay on), then simply repeat the click again.
4) Clicking on any piece changes its color, but only on the visible board (not internally!), so this 'feature' is only useful if the displayed board differs from the modules internal board, and it should normally not be necessary to use this 'feature' (except in problem/setup mode).
the figures looks like 'old style' dames pawns'
Yep, I took the pieces from one of my dame programs, because I didn't find any nice looking pictures for reversi pieces (and I didn't want to just use black and white disks).
for international dames (10*10), i have this one :
http://www117.zippyshare.com/v/DDeLqFVf/file.html
Well, I've found this already a few days ago, but since it's in Dutch language it is useless for me.
Since the ROM is from you, I hoped that you would have the real Dame Challenger machine and thus also the manual!?

Regards,
Franz
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Post by spacious_mind »

A couple of more Backgammon games.

Tryom - Omar 1 Electronic Computerized Backgammon - 1979

Image

This electronic backgammon game was first introduced at the Winter Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, early in 1979.

So back then Tryom Inc, was a competitor of Fidelity Electronics.

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Tryom Inc., was located in 23500 Mercantile Road, Beachwood, Ohio 44122. Beachwood must have been a Suburb of Cleveland, Ohio because in some places they also name their address as 23500 Mercantile Road, Cleveland, Ohio 44122.

Omar Sharif an Egyptian actor famous for his roles in Lawrence of Arabia, Che! (Che Guevara) and Doctor Zhivago endorsed these Tryom products. Besides acting Omar Sharif was passionate about Bridge, Horse Racing and Gambling. He once ranked among the top 50 players of the world in Contract Bridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Sharif

http://www.movies.com/actors/omar-shari ... es/p301683

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001725/

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Omar 1 includes a nice travel board made by Cardinal. Cardinal also made folding chess sets that were very popular in the 50's - 70's, competing with companies such as E.S. Lowe.

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARDINAL-CHESS- ... SwopRYd~EV

The above picture of a folding Cardinal chess game and link is an example I took from an Ebay.

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The User Manual has Omar Sharif showing Omar 1 Computerized Electronic Backgammon game. It also comes with a Backgammon Players Guide made by Cardinal.

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The back of this portable handheld backgammon game shows Serial # 34301 and has instructions for the game printed on the label as well.

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You probably wouldn't be able to figure this game's key functions out without carefully reading the instructions first :)

BTW... Tryom also made a Computerized Chess game:

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http://www.spacious-mind.com/html/cc-700.html


Tryom - Electronic Computerized Backgammon - @ 1980/1981

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This one from Tryom Inc., I believe came out shortly after Omar 1 and was not endorsed by Omar Sharif.

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It has the same portable Cardinal Backgammon Board.

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This is what the portable board looks like when closed.

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No picture of Omar Sharif on the User Manual, but it does have the same Cardinal Backgammon Players Guide.

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It's Serial # 65679 is higher than Omar 1, hence I why I think it was made after Omar 1. The same instructions for playing the game are also printed on the back of the computer.

Image

And, finally this Tryom Inc., Electronic Computerized Backgammon game is white.

Best regards
Nick
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blaubaer
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Post by blaubaer »

Hi,

that reminds me of an experience I had quite a while ago:

During the years '65 to '67 I had to go to school by bus - twice a day the bus passed a cinema with a huge movie poster of the "Dr. Zhivago" movie, showing Omar Sharif and, more important, Julie Christie. With the years I fell in love with her, but I was only 13 and could not watch the movie (from 16 years on) - three years later I was allowed to watch the movie - in the same cinema; the movie was presented all the years without any break! - Now you can imagine, how popular the movie was during that time.....

Ecstatic regards, Michael :P
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Post by fhub »

Hi yoyo,

additionally to my Reversi version of CB-Emu in the posting above, I've now created a new more realistic artwork for the Reversi module -
green board and more modern pieces (which I took from one of my Go games):
http://www14.zippyshare.com/v/uorNt6WO/file.html

I'm sure you'll like this more ... ;)

Regards,
Franz
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Post by spacious_mind »

blaubaer wrote:Hi,

that reminds me of an experience I had quite a while ago:

During the years '65 to '67 I had to go to school by bus - twice a day the bus passed a cinema with a huge movie poster of the "Dr. Zhivago" movie, showing Omar Sharif and, more important, Julie Christie. With the years I fell in love with her, but I was only 13 and could not watch the movie (from 16 years on) - three years later I was allowed to watch the movie - in the same cinema; the movie was presented all the years without any break! - Now you can imagine, how popular the movie was during that time.....

Ecstatic regards, Michael :P
Hi Michael,

Yep, it was my Mother's favorite movie too :P

Best regards
Nick
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Post by spacious_mind »

It is hard to find electronic opponents for Othello for Fidelity Reversi to play against, unless you play it against old computer software.

But here is game from Japan made by a company named Tsukuda. They actually own the Copyright for the computer name "Othello", which was used originally I think with Othello Multivison game console.

Could be why Fidelity names theirs Reversi to avoid paying copyright?

Tsukuda - M-II - 1981 - Hand Held Othello

ImageImage

It has 3 levels of play, with a 2 player mode. Level 3 only takes about 3 seconds to move.

Image

Here you can make out the year it was made - 1981. It uses 4 AA batteries and it can be used with a power adapter.

Best Regards
Nick
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Post by spacious_mind »

I figured this morning to give it a try and play a match between Fidelity Reversi against Tsukuda M-II.

Fidelity played at 30 seconds per move (what I usually use for chess) and Tsukuda played at level 3 which is @ 3 seconds per move.

Fidelity Reversi - Tsukuda M-II 0 Game 1

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1. e6 2. f6 3. f5 4. f4 5. f3 6. d3 7. c3 8. c4 9. e3 10. c5 11. c6 12. d6 13. d7 14. d2 15. e7

In Reversi/Othello, black starts the game. Therefore Fidelity Reversi played black and with the move advantage early outscored Tsukuda.

Interesting as you can see on move 12, is that both computers focused on the central 12 squares, with neither wanting to be the first to play out of the center. So both employed similar strategies.

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16. c7 17. f7 18. d8 19. f2 20. e8 21. c8 22. b8 23. e1 24. e2 25. f1 26. c1 27. d1 28. b6 29. b5 30. g4

Move 30 is the first time that Tsukuda outscores Fidelity.

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31. g6 32. f8 33. g5 34. b3 35. g3 36. h4 37. h6 38. h5 39. b4 40. h7 41. b1 42. h3 43. c2 44. a4 45. g7

Between the moves 31 to 45 moves it seems as if Tsukuda completely dominated Fidelity.

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46. g8 47. h8 48. g1 49. h1 50. b2 51. a8 (Tsukuda had to pass) 52. a1 53. a2 54. a3 55. a5 56. a6 57. a7 58. h2 59. g2 60. b7

After Fidelity Reversi's 51st move, Tsukuda M-11 had to pass. As you can see from the game progression continued to lead up to move 55 but Fidelity has all 4 corners and therefore dominated the last 5 moves to win by 45 - 19.

Fidelity Reversi = 1
Tsukuda M-11 = 0

Here is a link for WZebra 4.2.4 which is a nice Windows Othello game with a lot of features:

http://radagast.se/othello/wz424.exe

WZebra Othello/Reversi

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The nice thing about this program it lets you paste the move text of a game into the program and allows you to replay it. Below is the complete move text of the Fidelity Reversi - Tsukuda M-11 Game 1:

e6 f6 f5 f4 f3 d3 c3 c4 e3 c5 c6 d6 d7 d2 e7 c7 f7 d8 f2 e8 c8 b8 e1 e2 f1 c1 d1 b6 b5 g4 g6 f8 g5 b3 g3 h4 h6 h5 b4 h7 b1 h3 c2 a4 g7 g8 h8 g1 h1 b2 a8 a1 a2 a3 a5 a6 a7 h2 g2 b7

You can just paste the above moves into WZebra and replay the game if you wish.

Ok I am going to have to play another game with Tsukudu M-11 playing first with Black.

Best regards
Nick
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Post by Tibono2 »

fhub wrote:Hi yoyo,

additionally to my Reversi version of CB-Emu in the posting above, I've now created a new more realistic artwork for the Reversi module -
green board and more modern pieces (which I took from one of my Go games):
http://www14.zippyshare.com/v/uorNt6WO/file.html

I'm sure you'll like this more ... ;)

Regards,
Franz
Great work, Franz. Many thanks!
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Post by spacious_mind »

Here is game 2 between Tsukuda M-11 versus Fidelity Reversi.

Image

1. d3 2. c3 3. f5 4. f6 5. e6 6. d6 7. c4 8. f3 9. c5 10. c6 11. e3 12. f4
13. e7 14. d7 15. g4 16. f7 17. g5 18. g3 19. e2 20. g6 21. b4 22. f2 23. b5 24. d2
25. h3 26. b3 27. h2 28. h5 29. h6 30. h4 31. c2 32. h1 33. c1 34. b6 35. a5 36. d1
37. a6 38. c7 39. e1 40. f1 41. a4 42. h7 43. f8 44. d8 45. e8 46. c8 47. b8 48. a3
49. g1 50. a7 51. g2 52. g7 53. b2 54. b1 55. g8 56. h8 57. a2 58. a1 59. b7 60. a8

Game Score: Black Tsukudu M-11 = 17 Points White Fidelity Reversi = 47 Points.

Fidelity Reversi shows in this game its superiority. It looked like a quite easy win.

Fidelity Reversi - 2 (Overall 92 Points)
Tsukudu M-11 - 0 (Overall 36 Points)

Fidelity Reversi wins this match.

Best regards
Nick
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Post by spacious_mind »

Here is another Tsukuda.

Tsukuda Othello Tiny - 1986

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It's about as wide as your Samsung Galaxy phone about an inch smaller. Tiny has 2 Levels of Play. Level 2 plays between 10-30 seconds depending on complexity.

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You can just about make out the date of 1986.

I also played two quick games against Fidelity Reversi playing at 30 seconds per move. Tiny played on level 2.

Game 1 - Fidelity Reversi - Tsukuda Othello Tiny

Image

1. e6 2. f6
3. f5 4. d6
5. c6 6. e3
7. f3 8. c5
9. d3 10. e2
11. c4 12. b3
13. c3 14. b5
15. d7 16. e7
17. f7 18. f8
19. d2 20. c1
21. f4 22. d8
23. c7 24. b4
25. c2 26. g8
27. f2 28. d1
29. e1 30. g3
31. g4 32. e8
33. b6 34. c8
35. h4 36. g5
37. g6 38. a6
39. a3 40. a4
41. b1 42. f1
43. g1 44. h6
45. h5 46. h3
47. a5 48. a2
49. g7 50. g2
51. h1 52. h2
53. h7 54. b2
55. a1 56. --
57. a7 58. b7
59. a8 60. b8
61. h8

Fidelity Reversi wins with 42 - 22.

WZebra has a nice analysis:

Image

The graph shows that overall Fidelity Reversi dominated the game.

Code: Select all

  1. e6   Analysis: d3 c3 c4 e3 f4 c5 e2 f5 +0.00 discs (book)
  2. f6   Analysis: f6 f5 f4 e3 c5 c4 e7 c6 +0.00 discs (book)
  3. f5   Analysis: f5 f4 e3 c5 c4 e7 c6 e2 +0.00 discs (book)
  4. d6   Analysis: f4 e3 c5 c4 e7 c6 e2 f3 +0.00 discs (book)
  5. c6   Analysis: c5 e3 d3 g5 f3 b5 c6 b6 +0.00 discs (book)
  6. e3   Analysis: e3 f3 +2.56 discs (book)
  7. f3   Analysis: f3 -2.56 discs (book)
  8. c5   Analysis: c5 e7 g5 g4 f7 d7 e8 h5 +4.20 discs  (24)
  9. d3   Analysis: d3 g4 c4 b4 e7 c3 d7 f4 -4.28 discs  (24)
 10. e2   Analysis: f4 c4 e2 g5 d2 c3 c2 g4 +4.02 discs  (24)
 11. c4   Analysis: c4 f4 g5 d2 c3 c2 g4 g6 -3.63 discs  (24)
 12. b3   Analysis: f4 g5 d2 c3 c2 g4 b6 d7 +3.46 discs  (24)
 13. c3   Analysis: c3 f4 f2 g4 g3 f1 h4 d2 +3.46 discs  (24)
 14. b5   Analysis: f4 f2 d2 d1 e1 f1 c2 c1 -2.54 discs  (24)
 15. d7   Analysis: c2 f4 d7 e7 b4 a4 g5 d2 +5.53 discs  (24)
 16. e7   Analysis: d8 a5 b4 d2 d1 c7 c2 c8 -4.09 discs  (24)
 17. f7   Analysis: d2 f4 a3 f2 a4 c8 f1 c1 +8.13 discs  (24)
 18. f8   Analysis: b6 b4 c7 f4 c2 a6 d8 a5 -0.40 discs  (24)
 19. d2   Analysis: d2 g3 f1 d1 f4 f2 e1 g1 +3.25 discs  (24)
 20. c1   Analysis: c8 d1 c1 c2 e1 b6 b4 f4 -3.55 discs  (24)
 21. f4   Analysis: f2 g5 g6 d8 b4 c2 a3 h6 +6.22 discs  (24)
 22. d8   Analysis: g3 f2 c8 b4 b6 a3 e1 h3 -4.58 discs  (24)
 23. c7   Analysis: b4 c2 f2 c7 e8 g6 g5 h5 +15.05 discs  (24)
 24. b4   Analysis: b4 c2 b6 c8 b8 f1 e1 d1 +10.01 discs  (24)
 25. c2   Analysis: a5 g3 f2 e8 h3 g8 a4 a6 -10.41 discs  (24)
 26. g8   Analysis: b6 c8 b8 f1 e1 d1 g1 f2 +10.59 discs  (24)
 27. f2   Analysis: f1 e1 d1 g1 f2 b6 b7 c8 -7.96 discs  (24)
 28. d1   Analysis: b6 b8 c8 e8 a8 g7 g4 g3 +14.37 discs  (24)
 29. e1   Analysis: e1 b6 a6 g6 a5 g3 a2 e8 -4.98 discs  (24)
 30. g3   Analysis: b6 a6 g6 a5 g3 c8 b8 g4 +5.32 discs  (24)
 31. g4   Analysis: g4 h4 a6 g6 a5 b2 h6 h5 +0.30 discs  (24)
 32. e8   Analysis: h4 a6 e8 a5 b2 a1 b1 g5 +1.03 discs  (24)
 33. b6   WLD-correct
 34. c8   WLD-correct
 35. h4?  Black loses 3 discs, 35. a4 a3 a6 a5 b7 h4 h3 g2 wins 40-24.
 36. g5?  White loses 3 discs, 36. a6 b7 g7 g6 h6 loses 27-37.
 37. g6?  Black loses 6 discs, 37. b7 f1 a4 a8 a2 a3 a5 wins 40-24.
 38. a6?  White loses 2 discs, 38. a5 a7 a6 a4 a3 a2 f1 b7 loses 30-34.
 39. a3?  Black loses 3 discs, 39. a4 f1 a3 a5 b7 h7 a7 h3 wins 36-28.
 40. a4   Correct
 41. b1?? Black plays losing move, 41. b7 f1 a5 a2 b8 a8 a7 b2 wins 33-31.
 42. f1?? White plays losing move, 42. g2 a5 a2 b8 wins 38-26.
 43. g1   Correct
 44. h6?  White loses 4 discs, 44. h3 loses 27-37.
 45. h5   Correct
 46. h3   Correct
 47. a5   Correct
 48. a2?  White loses 3 discs, 48. b2 a7 g2 h1 h2 b7 a8 h7 loses 23-41.
 49. g7   Correct
 50. g2?  White loses 5 discs, 50. b2 a1 g2 a7 b7 a8 b8 h8 loses 20-44.
 51. h1?  Black loses 6 discs, 51. b2 h7 h8 b8 b7 a8 a7 a1 wins 49-15.
 52. h2?  White loses 4 discs, 52. b2 h2 h8 h7 b8 a8 a1 b7 loses 21-43.
 53. h7?  Black loses 5 discs, 53. b2 h7 h8 b8 b7 a8 a7 a1 wins 47-17.
 54. b2   Correct
 55. a1   Correct
 56. pass   
 57. a7   Correct
 58. b7   Correct
 59. a8   Correct
 60. b8   Correct
 61. h8   Black wins 42 - 22.
The analysis is quite nice it can actually search 24 deep and does the last 26 ply perfectly.

So this does show that Fidelity Reversi is overall much better than Tsukudi Tiny.

Game 2 - Tsukuda Othello Tiny - Fidelity Reversi

Image

1. c4 2. c3
3. d3 4. e3
5. f2 6. c6
7. d6 8. f3
9. f5 10. f6
11. c5 12. e6
13. e7 14. f4
15. g4 16. d7
17. c8 18. f7
19. d2 20. c7
21. e8 22. g3
23. d8 24. g5
25. h2 26. c2
27. e2 28. b3
29. h6 30. h3
31. b1 32. h1
33. b4 34. g6
35. a2 36. b5
37. f8 38. f1
39. e1 40. c1
41. g1 42. a1
43. d1 44. a4
45. b2 46. a3
47. h4 48. g2
49. h5 50. h7
51. b8 52. g7
53. a5 54. b6
55. g8 56. h8
57. a7 58. a8
59. a6 60. b7

And, Fidelity Reversi wins again 39 - 25.

Image

The graph shows that not once from start to finish was Fidelity Reversi behind in this game.

Final Score

Fidelity Reversi - 2 (Overall 81 points)
Tsukuda Othello Tiny - 0 (Overall 47 points)

Tsukuda Othello Tiny seems to be slightly better than M-11, but neither of these two electronic Othello games have much of a chance against Fidelity Reversi.

There is one more I want to try out tomorrow and then I will move on to something else :)

Best regards
Nick
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